GAME 3 NBA FINALS: Boston Celtics (2-0) vs. Dallas Mavericks (0-2)

[RoyTarpleysGhost]

It's a silly tweet. Could Luka have hustled back more? Sure. But it also wasn't his fault Tatum got a free drive to the rim.

LMAO come on man. Luka is one of the laziest players in the NBA when it comes to hustling back on defense. This isn’t some isolated incident. 

He’s probably 20lbs heavier than he was as a rookie. Combine that with being the biggest baby/whiner in the NBA and we see this 5-10 times every game.

Dirk and Jokic both had offseasons where they decided to grow up. Hopefully one year Luka does too. He’s already a top 3 NBA player so in a sense it’s nice to know he clearly has another gear in him if he decides he wants it.

[BigDirk41]

LMAO come on man. Luka is one of the laziest players in the NBA when it comes to hustling back on defense. This isn’t some isolated incident. 

He’s probably 20lbs heavier than he was as a rookie. Combine that with being the biggest baby/whiner in the NBA and we see this 5-10 times every game.

Dirk and Jokic both had offseasons where they decided to grow up. Hopefully one year Luka does too. He’s already a top 3 NBA player so in a sense it’s nice to know he clearly has another gear in him if he decides he wants it.

The positive out of all this is that Luka has another level he can achieve if he chooses to. An active Luka on both ends would be unstoppable. Like everyone keeps mentioning though, that's something he has to choose on his own. Great players learn from these moments and I expect he will as well. MJ took a weakness and made it a strength every off season. That's the mentality Luka has to have with his defense and arguing with the refs.

[dirkfansince1998]

The positive out of all this is that Luka has another level he can achieve if he chooses to. An active Luka on both ends would be unstoppable. Like everyone keeps mentioning though, that's something he has to choose on his own. Great players learn from these moments and I expect he will as well. MJ took a weakness and made it a strength every off season. That's the mentality Luka has to have with his defense and arguing with the refs.

Just looking at the defensive end this was the best version of Luka we have ever seen. He was legit good in most games. Problem is that in each series he took 1-2 games off. And to make things worse the list of off games includes two finals games.

Luka has proven that when he is locked in he can be a really good help defender and hold his own on switches against any given star player in the league. Teams targeted him and for the most part he stepped up to the challenge. But the off games are killing the Mavs.

[donzingis38]

We badly need a decent bench. We don't have a Jason Terry or even a JJ Barea. Zero poins from THJ/Kleber/Hardy is straight up embarrassing. Crazy all we ask for is one shot made from each of them and we got a series.

[BigDirk41]

Just looking at the defensive end this was the best version of Luka we have ever seen. He was legit good in most games. Problem is that in each series he took 1-2 games off. And to make things worse the list of off games includes two finals games.

Luka has proven that when he is looked in he can be a really good help defender and hold his own on switches against any given star player in the league. Teams targeted him and for the most part he stepped up to the challenge. But the off games are killing the Mavs.

Yeah I guess I would agree with that. The plays off cost us dearly. I would think he gave up at least 15 last night from either arguing with the refs, not running back or not contesting 3s. He has to find a way to stay fully engaged on defense at all times, at least in the playoffs.

[BigDirk41]

http://youtube.com/post/UgkxdHOal_E4Jq0P...JU8QprTeRQ

This is a crazy stat on blow-by percentage against Luka.

[RGP1981]

LMAO come on man. Luka is one of the laziest players in the NBA when it comes to hustling back on defense. This isn’t some isolated incident. 

He’s probably 20lbs heavier than he was as a rookie. Combine that with being the biggest baby/whiner in the NBA and we see this 5-10 times every game.

Dirk and Jokic both had offseasons where they decided to grow up. Hopefully one year Luka does too. He’s already a top 3 NBA player so in a sense it’s nice to know he clearly has another gear in him if he decides he wants it.

I think he's probably 40-60 pounds heavier today than he was as a rookie, TBH... or am I way off there?

Either way, Luka has become a teletubbie and needs to do better. He looks closer to Brian Windhorst than he is to MJ.

[HoosierDaddyKidd]

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/4033...on-celtics



The backbreaking strategy that has the Mavs on the brink.

[omahen]

https://bleacherreport.com/videos/574043...-criticism

[audiosway]

We badly need a decent bench. We don't have a Jason Terry or even a JJ Barea. Zero poins from THJ/Kleber/Hardy is straight up embarrassing. Crazy all we ask for is one shot made from each of them and we got a series.

This is exactly what I've been talking about. People keep talking about Luka's bad defense and him complaining here and there. None of that is THE problem. 

In 77 minutes of the Finals Jones Jr has 18 points.
In 27 minutes THJ has 0 points. (Averaging 14.4 points per game this season)
In 43 minutes Maxi has 2 points. (Averaging 4.4 points per game this season)
In 19 minutes Exum has 5 points. (Averaging 7.8 points per game this season)
In 56 minutes Green has 10 points.(Averaging 8.2 points per game this season)
In 17 minutes Hardy has 13 points. Garbage time. He's too young just yet for this moment.

Maxi and THJ need to sit. Green needs to take more shots if he is going to be on the floor. Jones Jr too.

That is unacceptable. That is the difference between Dallas being down 3-0 or being up 2-1.

Dallas lost the last 2 games by a combined 14 points. 7 point losses in each game. That's literally 3 possession games.

Last night and in game 2 the bench should have provided 10 points not counting Lively. That's 2 wins.

Boston really isn't playing their bench. The bench players for Boston are only getting about 12 mpg for 3 players.

That means that Jones Jr needed to be able to score more. Or Josh Green needed to take more than 2 shots in 22 minutes. He was 50% from the field. Are you telling me that in 22 minutes he can't take more than 2 shots?

Jones Jr took 2 shots in 15 minutes. He shot 50% from the floor.

Luka and Ky had 62 points last night. They outscored Tatum and Brown.

Two 3 pointers and a 2 per game and it's Dallas 2-1.

[hakeemfaan]

The crazy thing for me is that this guy was the WCF MVP a few days ago. Now we dropped three games, of which two could have legit gone the other way, to maybe the best team ( most season people had Denver or Celts as the top two regardless of the standings) and Luka is a tele tubby or lazy or has given half effort for a couple of games every series? Wow.

[michaeltex]

Being down 0-3 is certainly where nobody wanted to be now and it seems the offseason will get started soon.

That said, Luka didn't have his best game last night, but the team isn't here without him, so everyone taking pot shots at him needs to take a step back. Any other team would be delighted to have Luka leading their squad. So pour your disappointment over something else.

A big stat that stood out to me is that BOS had 21 more 3pt attempts and made 8 more than DAL, that's a 24 point differential, but only scored 7 more overall. That's the difference right there. 3pt attempts = long rebounds which negates DAL's size advantages inside. Bombs away!

On the conspiracy theory front, I think the refs screwed up with the 6th foul on Luka. Only after it was called did they realize it would put him out for the last 4+minutes of a 3pt game, and you could hear it in his voice when announcing the results of the review. I suggest this is NOT what the NBA wanted, at all. They truly want the series to go 6-7 games to maximize revenue for themselves and their broadcast partners. A sweep likely just pays the cost of putting on the finals, they need additional income to really show acceptable profit and the refs screwed that up by handing BOS a 3-0 series lead. So now all you will hear is how impossible it is for DAL and interest in Game 4 gets really limited to fans of the principals. Media always preferred BOS to win because they can lean in to their history from 40-50 years ago and the annual championships they used to win, but they need DAL to present as a real contender and a sweep doesn't suggest that. So this may be the most forgotten finals since the bubble one back in 2019.

OK now I've gotten it off my chest and I can move on. Thanks for the group therapy.

[BigDirk41]

I can't say I can recall a franchise player fouling put in the finals with over 4 minutes left. The refs shouldn't have called it, but Luka also committed a couple of careless fouls that got him to that point. Luka messed up and the refs messed up as far as I'm concerned. He knows better than to risk a foul like that also. That situation just sucked for the team.

[KillerLeft]

I can't say I can recall a franchise player fouling put in the finals with over 4 minutes left. The refs shouldn't have called it, but Luka also committed a couple of careless fouls that got him to that point. Luka messed up and the refs messed up as far as I'm concerned. He knows better than to risk a foul like that also. That situation just sucked for the team.

The sixth foul was absolutely a foul and absolutely had to be called, in my opinion. Now, some of the other ones might have been questionable, but there is no excuse for Luka doing what he did, knowing he had five fouls.

Every single slow motion highlight they showed going to break, of any player, included at least one uncalled foul. Hell, Jalen Brown’s dunk, which they showed about 20 times, included Jones fouling his right arm and PJ fouling his left arm, both occurring mid flight. It wasn’t even mentioned on the broadcast, Brown didn’t complain, etc., because the people calling the game and the Celtics all understand what it takes to win the NBA finals.

Two things can be true at once: 1) without Luka the team doesn’t even come close to making it this far. 2) he has quite a bit of maturing to do before he can win a championship. I sincerely hope there are people close to Luka, either from the team or his family, who can get him to see this. 

And it’s not just the complaining mentality. It’s taking care of his body, obviously. Injuries happen, but preparing in such a way that they are minimized as much as possible is what it takes to win. Preparing your body to where you have more energy in the fourth quarter than your opponent is what it takes to win. Dirk had to give up alcohol almost completely at right around this time of his career. He has talked about it a lot. He drank very little during the off-season, and not at all during the season. LeBron James spends $1 million a year on his body, including all that crazy hyperbaric chamber stuff.

I don’t know what the specifics are for Luka, but this is the commitment level of champions. He’s got more than enough talent, but he’s still missing something. Pointing that out and discussing it should not be considered even adjacent to hate.

25 is still very young. In theory, he hasn’t even entered his prime yet, so no one is giving up on him. Especially not anyone who frequents a Dallas Mavericks message board.

EDIT: I quoted you for the first part and then went on a tangent not aimed at you, BigDirk.

[audiosway]

Someone has to be the first to come back from down 0-3. Let's go. All it takes it one game. Last night should have been the one.

As far as the fouling I see why Luka is frustrated. He's a big guy. Boston is able to get very physical with him but he can't do the same.

There was a foul in game 2 on PJ that was called as an illegal screen when the game was tight. That gave Boston more momentum. There was no foul.

The refs have been calling it pretty poorly. The push in the back the other night wasn't even the worst no call in that game. There have been several calls on Dallas players for touching the hand while blocking the ball. The hand is part of the ball. That combined with the look of fear in game 1 from Dallas has Boston playing very loose. That's why balls are bouncing their way.

They are also very rested since they haven't been tested. They have been together for years now and have been to I think the last 5 ECF together.

Like I said though, there will come a day when someone comes back from down 0-3. Why not now? The last two have been close. Can Dallas win game 4 and see where it goes? They have nothing to lose now.

Oh and I still stick by saying that Kidd should start using some hard fouls. It's time. Make Boston think twice about going into the paint. They are using that to open up the 3. Gafford was a negative on the floor. That big ole boy could lay some wood on someone I think.

[dirkfansince1998]

I don't really see the issue with the refs. A couple of 50/50 calls going against the Mavs in the last few minutes of game three isn't enough to turn this into a big talking point. Refs are letting both teams play. Swallow the whistle on drives.
In the series against the Wolves the physicality benefited the Mavs. Made it much easier to slow down a slasher like Edwards. This time against a much better perimeter defense it is hurting them. When Holiday, White or Brown are allowed to handcheck even Kyrie and Luka have a hard time.

[hakeemfaan]

Dirk had his plus points. He had his negatives too. Dirk was many a times too unselfish for his own good. There have been plenty of threads before and after the title run asking why Dirk didn’t stamp his will on the game more. You will never say that about Luka.

Dirk in today’s NBA most likely would have faced the same challenges that other bigs face when facing an elite small ball team like the Celts or GS. Teams that specifically hunt for the oppposong team’s weak link on defense.

I am not saying this to tear Dirk down. I have written how I will never have the same interest in the game once Dirk retired. That was my basketball god in terms of skill and behavior and how he carried himself

I have never been a fan of Luka’s offensive style with the ball dominance. I don’t like the constant griping. However that is a double edged sword with him. As I said that same fire is why there are very few games where you wonder where Luka was. Win or lose, offensively the other team knows he will go at them.

He is also not Harden or Westbrook. Those guys have always wilted as the team went deeper into the playoffs. Luka has already won a WCF MVP. Next step is a title MVP. Remember one of our centers and another key guy came in at the trade deadline. The other center is a rookie. This core going this far is a testament to Luka and Kyrie.

Yes he can cut down his griping. He should definitely get back on defense every time. At the same time thre will be certain personality traits that you don’t want him to let go. That same fire is why he hunted Gobert and knocked down a game winner. Reign it in a little, improve diet a little, run back alwys and hope mgmt puts a couple of small upgrades in the roster also.

He is close. Very close. We might have even had a great chance this year if mgmt didn’t mess up with Brunson. If he had key physical flaws he wouldn’t be in the conversation for the best player in the league every year. No matter how prodigious your offensive talent you can’t do what he does if he were truly fat or lazy. This is a guy with one of the highest usage rates and the team struggles when he is not on the floor.

[ThisIStheYear]

I can't say I can recall a franchise player fouling put in the finals with over 4 minutes left. The refs shouldn't have called it, but Luka also committed a couple of careless fouls that got him to that point. Luka messed up and the refs messed up as far as I'm concerned. He knows better than to risk a foul like that also. That situation just sucked for the team.

Once Luka fell down trying to draw the charge the ref was obliged to call either the charge or block. Can’t make a no call when the defender forces your hand like that.  There 100% has to be a call one way or another.  There’s nothing the ref can do. And, in that case, it’s a block. Luka wasn’t in position. That was just a low IQ play to leave your feet in that situation. Otherwise, it would have been a no call.

[RGP1981]

Luka and Ky had 62 points last night. They outscored Tatum and Brown.

Tatum and Brown had 61 points last night though. 

So that is 1 point extra... but at what cost of defense?

Anyway... Luka, Kyrie and everyone else on the Mavericks need to score more or score in better ways than they have.

[KillerLeft]

He is close. Very close. We might have even had a great chance this year if mgmt didn’t mess up with Brunson. If he had key physical flaws he wouldn’t be in the conversation for the best player in the league every year.  No matter how prodigious your offensive talent you can’t do what he does if he were truly fat or lazy. This is a guy with one of the highest usage rates and the team struggles when he is not on the floor.

I think we all agree with this, which is why absolutely no one here has made such claims, at least to my knowledge. That seems like taking an opinion to such an extreme that it no longer accurately represents the point some are trying to make.

This is about what it takes to be at the very top of the NBA mountain, which is something more difficult than anyone here can possibly imagine, myself included. There are levels to things. Of course he’s not lazy. If he were, we’d have never heard his name.

I am a Mavericks fan and a Luka Dončić fan. Selfishly, I want him to shove all of this criticism down everyone’s throat and assume a position of such revered dominance that no one can touch it. He’s not there yet, and I think anyone looking objectively would reach the same conclusion. Maybe he never will be, but we all believe that he can do it (as does Windhorst, as those actually interested in listening with an open mind know). Either way, none of that should ever be construed as a lack of gratitude for the hours and years of enjoyment he has already provided us. Frankly, and I don’t mean to aim this at you, HF, it’s kind of annoying to have to put that disclaimer on everything. We ALL want the best for the Mavs, and  forget the finals - if not for Luka, I highly doubt we would still even have this community. Dirk’s last decade was tough to watch.