2025 draft thread: THE MAVS SELECT COOPER FLAGG

[F Gump]

So Bailey holds no cards right?  He can go play in Europe but Utah would hold his NBA rights for a few years correct?  I understand Utah is not for everyone.  I think I would like living out there, but it is not for everyone.  Might be good for him to get off the East Coast too.

Bailey holds no cards. Correct.

Europe is not even remotely close to being an alternate option. The pay is not nearly as good, teams aren't going to prioritize getting him and featuring him (they would recognize he's only a temp, and Euro teams are looking out for their own future, not his), the working conditions are considerably worse, and he would be a foreigner who doesn't speak the language or fit in.

The worst NBA gig is 10x better than whatever he might find in Europe.

But the biggest reason is that Utah does NOT lose his exclusive NBA rights - not ever - if he plays in Europe, or if he plays anywhere else (including college) -- with one exception.

The only way a player can get out of their obligation to the team that drafted them is to sit out basketball entirely for a year - no play, and no pay - and then the reward is they go back into the ensuing NBA draft where some team (including UT) can pick them. The year away from hoops doesn't have to be the first year, but to erase UT's sole rights, it has to happen some year. 

When they go back into the draft, it's a start over. And the same rules apply. Whatever team drafts him will own his NBA rights, and the only exit is to sit idle for a year (again), otherwise they own them every year forever.

After doing that two times, ie having two years idle completely (and no pay), then the player will be a UFA. But it's a high price to do it. No one ever has.

Years ago the Mavs were held hostage by a jerkoff they drafted, and these rules are what evolved to make it too high a price to do.

I suspect this is 99% media drama, and he'll go to UT as scheduled. There's no upside for him to shoot himself in the foot on getting his career started and getting to his next contract asap with the most value possible.

[khaled1987]

I think he just wanted some time to process this before having to go with big smile on his face to the media.

He passed on extra 9M (difference in contract between 3rd and 5th) to end in Utah, one pick before his favourite destination. I would be mad too if I were him, he is just 18 and likely was following the advice of his agent that only cost him money with no benefit.

It is normal to get a couple of days to vent to your family and heal. I won't judge him much in that.

[SleepingHero]

Michael Scotto (@MikeAScotto)
Just In: The Cleveland Cavaliers have signed No. 49 overall pick Tyrese Proctor to a four-year, $8.69 million deal, league sources told @hoopshype. The first two seasons are fully guaranteed, third-year significant partial guarantee, and a fourth-year team option.

[HoosierDaddyKid]

VJ Edgecombe looked like the best player on the floor in his 1st summer league game.

[Mavs2021]

VJ Edgecombe looked like the best player on the floor in his 1st summer league game.

To which I say duh. He looked like the best player on the floor, when he played in the Olympic qualifiers finals for the Bahamas against Spain with Ayton, Hield and Gordon. He averaged 17/6/4 with two steals in 28 MPG in the Olympic qualifying tournament at age 18 against good teams. And these FIBA statkeepers don´t hand out boxscores like candy. Give it another six months and you all wish we had traded AD for PG13/Edgecombe.

[KillerLeft]

I don't think this is the go-to player-run podcast for in depth basketball analysis, as there are several others I prefer, but I did find it interesting to listen to Paul George and Jim Jackson discuss Cooper Flagg and his fit in Dallas.

https://youtu.be/75uIMq9SulI?si=abK3o0TIP8lGxiy5

[DanSchwartzgan]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AFvshjgaerg&t=11s


If you like advanced stats and want to get pumped up about some Cooper Flagg, this may be the video for you.  The guy makes a ton of good points.  One take away for me personally...I've spent some time looking at the rookie campaigns for the comps like Grant Hill or Jayson Tatum et al to see what to expect in year one.  I may should be looking at year 3 for those guys.

I've seen it said that if Flagg is a top 50 player in the NBA this season, the Mav's could be really good if the other two stars (AD and Kyrie) are healthy.  If you look at who the ranking systems (Athletic or ESPN or...) puts in spots 40-50, it isn't hard to imagine Flagg being low 40's to high 30's.  It is a lot, but he's nowhere near a finished product and arguably further along than Lebron or Kobe were at the same age.

[ThisIStheYear]

To which I say duh. He looked like the best player on the floor, when he played in the Olympic qualifiers finals for the Bahamas against Spain with Ayton, Hield and Gordon. He averaged 17/6/4 with two steals in 28 MPG in the Olympic qualifying tournament at age 18 against good teams. And these FIBA statkeepers don´t hand out boxscores like candy. Give it another six months and you all wish we had traded AD for PG13/Edgecombe.

I already wish that but doubt Philadelphia would have done it. VJ and Flagg will be competing over the course of their careers for best player in this class.

[KillerLeft]

Lamar Odom. That's the comp. He's a humble, focused, ultra competitive, good person version of Lamar Odom. All of the promising talent Odom had, but without the bad, and that's a damn fine thing to have on your team.

[KillerLeft]

More gushing praise for Flagg from Timpf:

https://youtu.be/wzLQTDzCPXQ?si=HvIKe3nNTlunIA2Q

[Winter]

More gushing praise for Flagg from Timpf:

https://youtu.be/wzLQTDzCPXQ?si=HvIKe3nNTlunIA2Q

Timpf generally points out things are not so obvious to fans. We see Youtube videos, but the commentary here is a lot of coach-talk and advanced skills like how Flagg gets the advantage on defenders.

[KillerLeft]

Timpf generally points out things are not so obvious to fans. We see Youtube videos, but the commentary here is a lot of coach-talk and advanced skills like how Flagg gets the advantage on defenders.

Yes, he provides the exact type of analysis that I'm constantly starved for. The thoughtless talking heads (ESPN style) are worth nothing, and while I used to really be into advanced stats guys like Hollinger or the ThinkingBasketball guy, I have come to believe their understanding of what works and why isn't as complete as conventional wisdom suggests. I think there's lots of nuance lacking there. 

Timpf is one of the few out there creating content that actually teaches about the game. It's a shame that Redick was hired to coach LA, because his podcast with LeBron was a wealth of knowledge, too. It's still worthwhile with Nash, but not nearly as good, imo.

For example (this is something I knew already, but I might not have caught it 5 years ago) he points out WHY Nembhard was less effective in game 2 than game 1. The Lakers defended pick and roll with drop coverage, while the Spurs switched. Period. The former leans right into his skills and training, as pull-up midrange jumpers are the objectively correct way to attack that defense. The latter requires him to create separation from his defender (probably bigger, better defenders than he's accustomed to seeing on average) in order to get shots off or, in some cases, even get passes off. Given how he struggled when facing something so commonly used in the NBA, it's easy to see why he's on a 2-way. He'll figure out how to counter that strategy (and others) eventually, I'm sure, but he's 100% not ready to do so at the moment.

[Winter]

And Timpf went out of his way to discuss how good the Spurs have been in pre-season with their defense.

I went back and watched Carter Bryants defense on Flagg, Damn! I'm going to hate that guy in the regular season. The Spurs are going to make a leap I think. In an interview after the game, Flagg discussed Bryant's defense on him (he apparently knows Carter Bryant) and had nothing but praise for the guy.

[mvossman]

Yes, he provides the exact type of analysis that I'm constantly starved for. The thoughtless talking heads (ESPN style) are worth nothing, and while I used to really be into advanced stats guys like Hollinger or the ThinkingBasketball guy, I have come to believe their understanding of what works and why isn't as complete as conventional wisdom suggests. I think there's lots of nuance lacking there. 

I think they complement each other.  You can learn from both.  We are definitely a long way off from the numbers telling everything.

[KillerLeft]

I think they complement each other.  You can learn from both.  We are definitely a long way off from the numbers telling everything.

I agree, I just mean that I spent a good decade thinking guys like Voulgaris had it all figured out, trying to learn as much about that stuff as possible. They don't, and I fell out of love with that angle on the game some time back. Too extremely, probably, as I've forgotten most of the advanced stats knowledge I used to have on the tip of my brain. It just stopped being interesting to me, at least in terms of chasing my own answers. I often appreciate the points others use them to make, but my default posture about that stuff this past five years or so has become skeptical.