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+--- Thread: 2020-2021 ROSTER TALK: Archived (/showthread.php?tid=682)
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RE: ROSTER TALK: Trade/FA Ideas (Mar 25 TDL) + Salary Chart - KillerLeft - 02-16-2021
(02-16-2021, 03:22 PM)chaparral Wrote: But would like to know if you would trade him for Drummond? And could we get draft picks in that deal?
To get out from under the contract AND get picks? Absolutely, I would. But I don't think that's possible. I think trading KP to Cleveland would only be possible if you agree to take Kevin Love back, and I'm not willing to do that. There's even less ambiguity about Love's future than Porzingis's, imo.
RE: ROSTER TALK: Trade/FA Ideas (Mar 25 TDL) + Salary Chart - ItsGoTime - 02-16-2021
(02-16-2021, 03:22 PM)chaparral Wrote: Did not read this whole back and forth on KP. But would like to know if you would trade him for Drummond? And could we get draft picks in that deal?Only way they would want KP is if they saw him as a PF not C. The reason they're sitting Drummond is to give their new C toy the reigns. Now, IF they see value in KP and we didn't want Drummond, Tor is reported to be interested in his services and there might be a Scott type deal to make in there.
Yesterday I was trying to figure out a deal with Cle and Atl with Dal where we give up KP and stuff, Cle gives up Drummond and Love and the lottery first to go to Atl who trades Collins and stuff. Eventually I landed on if Cle wants to give up that lottery first, they would probably just prefer Collins themselves as a sure fire PF next to Allen.
(02-16-2021, 03:33 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: There's even less ambiguity about Love's future than Porzingis's, imo.OH? I hadn't kept up with Love, what's going on with him?
RE: ROSTER TALK: Trade/FA Ideas (Mar 25 TDL) + Salary Chart - KillerLeft - 02-16-2021
(02-16-2021, 03:28 PM)ItsGoTime Wrote: I think you've possibly gone down a path I've taken at times and worked yourself up about him and can't back down (I got that way about Powell at one time until I realized he was just being put in a role that wasn't best suited for his skill level). Now every little thing he does is a mistake, never getting the benefit of the doubt.
If I'm understanding you correctly, you're suggesting I'm constantly doubling down on KP out of some misguided desire to be right, or to win an argument?
I suppose it's possible (something we're all prone to, maybe) but I really don't think that's what's happening.
I just have very strong opinions about what makes a good defensive center in today's game. When the deal for KP happened, I thought he had a great chance of checking most of those boxes. I feel confident now that I was wrong. That's it. That's the entire issue. I just don't believe a team with a bad center on defense is going to win a championship.
The "patient" thing, from my angle, is to move backwards now to get out of this mud, as moving forwards is going to be REALLY arduous. I would be "patient" by admitting that this is a dead end, then taking some steps back to open up options to move forward. I'd be "patient" through 1-2 more disappointing years (relative to where we thought the team was this past off-season) as they set up 5-6 GREAT years.
RE: ROSTER TALK: Trade/FA Ideas (Mar 25 TDL) + Salary Chart - StepBackJay - 02-16-2021
Would you trade KP for Drummond and a CLE lottery pick?
RE: ROSTER TALK: Trade/FA Ideas (Mar 25 TDL) + Salary Chart - KillerLeft - 02-16-2021
(02-16-2021, 03:34 PM)ItsGoTime Wrote: OH? I hadn't kept up with Love, what's going on with him?
Well, for one thing, he had only played two games this year when last I checked. Not even sure what the injury is, I just know he's hurt (again). Further, he's pretty clearly washed, imo, and has been for quite some time now.
I do NOT think his value is anywhere near KP's right now. Hopefully, that gives you some perspective on my Porzingis thoughts. I don't hate him. I've just seen enough to know he's not the center I, personally, would want to build my team around.
(02-16-2021, 03:39 PM)StepBackJay Wrote: Would you trade KP for Drummond and a CLE lottery pick?
Without hesitation.
RE: ROSTER TALK: Trade/FA Ideas (Mar 25 TDL) + Salary Chart - ItsGoTime - 02-16-2021
(02-16-2021, 03:38 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: If I'm understanding you correctly, you're suggesting I'm constantly doubling down on KP out of some misguided desire to be right, or to win an argument?Not at all, please don't get that wrong, I don't think that at all.
I suppose it's possible (something we're all prone to, maybe) but I really don't think that's what's happening.
I just think we can work ourselves into a frenzy and that's another snow ball where we only see the wrong in someone, never giving them the benefit of the doubt. This turn around has happened, like I said, in about a week where you were skeptical, but patient - to - get rid of him as soon as you can. I've seen many of the Discord game threads and there is a lot of negativity surrounding KP in there. That feeds on itself most of the time.
RE: ROSTER TALK: Trade/FA Ideas (Mar 25 TDL) + Salary Chart - KillerLeft - 02-16-2021
(02-16-2021, 03:48 PM)ItsGoTime Wrote: This turn around has happened, like I said, in about a week where you were skeptical, but patient - to - get rid of him as soon as you can. I've seen many of the Discord game threads and there is a lot of negativity surrounding KP in there. That feeds on itself most of the time.
Yeah, maybe the camel's back has broken prematurely, as I have no real straw to which I can point.
IDK, though. I'm far enough along with this observation that at THIS point, I'd act now and worry about whether it's the right thing to do later.
RE: ROSTER TALK: Trade/FA Ideas (Mar 25 TDL) + Salary Chart - ItsGoTime - 02-16-2021
(02-16-2021, 03:39 PM)StepBackJay Wrote: Would you trade KP for Drummond and a CLE lottery pick?Is the pick protected at all? If not, I'd have to think on that. If they pulled the trigger on it, I'd take a wait and see approach to evaluate fairly. This draft is supposedly one that all teams want to be in on since the age limit will be dropped. Honestly, second rounders in this draft might turn out REALLY good because of so many 18 yo prospects going earlier.
(02-16-2021, 03:51 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: Yeah, maybe the camel's back has broken prematurely, as I have no real straw to which I can point.Fair enough.
IDK, though. I'm far enough along with this observation that at THIS point, I'd act now and worry about whether it's the right thing to do later.
RE: ROSTER TALK: Trade/FA Ideas (Mar 25 TDL) + Salary Chart - cow - 02-16-2021
The problem with trading KP is that you haven't even paid for him yet (still owe 2 FRPs). You can say that we'd do it to get off of his salary but the MBT is terrible at recruiting free agents so you'd have a hard time replacing his production. You can say that we'd do it for draft capital but the MBT is terrible at drafting. The only way I'd trade KP is for an alternative second banana. The good news is that this is where the MBT aren't terrible. The bad news is that KP's trade value is probably at an all-time low.
Possible Second Bananas:
-LaVine
-Brown
-Grant
-Beal
Would Chicago, Boston, Detroit or Washington be interested in a package centered around KP? *shrug*
I'd also wager that the MBT aren't near the point of wanting to trade KP. This season has been weird as hell with him coming back from injury, a jumbled roster thanks to offseason activity and injuries, a shortened training camp, coach staff changes, etc. I still think they'll play this year out and hopefully give him a healthy offseason to work on his game. If 2022 doesn't show improvement, then I could see a TDL move.
RE: ROSTER TALK: Trade/FA Ideas (Mar 25 TDL) + Salary Chart - omahen - 02-16-2021
(02-16-2021, 03:10 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: And, what's the verdict?
I don't think guys like Collins or LaVine would bring what this team needs. Offense is fine, we need defense. Than the question is, can defense even be good with this version of KP? He should be the guy behind covering for mistakes of the first line and he just isn't. He gets attacked on every offense. If we put another C next to him we will get killed from perimeter from the good teams. I think it would be much easier to hide player like LaVine on defense than KP.
Kleber is basically best player we can put next to KP, but he is also playing like crap post Covid. As it is now, player like D. Green might be best Mavs could add to the team to make it work. But his contract is terrible and GSW will not just let him go for free, despite of their gazillion of tax payments. I was against him but he is actually playing extremely well. Still, not really prepared to pay a ton of assets for him.
On the other hand, of course, we don't have all the info. KP has proved before he can be an excellent defender. Mavs might know what is going on and have confidence he will become his old self again. They are not blind, they see he is bad, everyone does. Are his problems in the head or in the body? Consequence of injury or just lack of quality offseason preparation? Lack of leadership and accountability? There are many options and we have no idea.
KP and Doncic take a lot of shots. If we bring in a new offensive power, most of all a young player still building his career, who will reduce his shots, cause the new guy will expect and take his? Luka is usually very efficient so we don't really gain a lot, if he shoots less. Enough shots would only be available if THJ and Brunson would be going out. Otherwise, you would have to look KP way to shoot less. Not really sure that would end well.
Based on all this I am more inclined to say no, if Mavs can believe KP to become what he was last season on the defensive end. In that case, this team needs a tough vet who knows what he wants and can facilitate. No nonsense guy. Lowry would be perfect. The rest is fine with a minor tweak here and there. Another PF would be nice.
If Mavs don't think KP is a solution, then they can bring that third "star" in and go all offense. Then trade KP whenever they get good value for him.
RE: ROSTER TALK: Trade/FA Ideas (Mar 25 TDL) + Salary Chart - KillerLeft - 02-16-2021
(02-16-2021, 03:56 PM)cow Wrote: I'd also wager that the MBT aren't near the point of wanting to trade KP.
I'm pretty confident that you're right about this.
RE: ROSTER TALK: Trade/FA Ideas (Mar 25 TDL) + Salary Chart - StepBackJay - 02-16-2021
(02-16-2021, 04:00 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: I'm pretty confident that you're right about this.
Ya I think things are going to get interesting next season if Mavs are struggling as a bubble playoff team without any excuses.
RE: ROSTER TALK: Trade/FA Ideas (Mar 25 TDL) + Salary Chart - ItsGoTime - 02-16-2021
(02-16-2021, 03:56 PM)cow Wrote: I still think they'll play this year out and hopefully give him a healthy offseason to work on his game. If 2022 doesn't show improvement, then I could see a TDL move.This is very possible, I'd hope they can get a better read sooner than that (like this offseason) because man, that injury thing just seems like a ticking time bomb. That is my main reason for doubt with him.
RE: ROSTER TALK: Trade/FA Ideas (Mar 25 TDL) + Salary Chart - cow - 02-16-2021
(02-16-2021, 03:57 PM)omahen Wrote: As it is now, player like D. Green might be best Mavs could add to the team to make it work. But his contract is terrible and GSW will not just let him go for free, despite of their gazillion of tax payments. I was against him but he is actually playing extremely well. Still, not really prepared to pay a ton of assets for him.
I doubt GSW would consider trading him. He's pretty crucial to helping develop the new/young pieces on the team and if GSW keeps up their play, they'll be angling for a playoff spot or play-in game.
RE: ROSTER TALK: Trade/FA Ideas (Mar 25 TDL) + Salary Chart - HanspardShowerVoice - 02-16-2021
There are 4s out there who could be very good fits with KP, but I don't think they would generate a lot of excitement among fans because they're not big enough names. Thaddeus Young being a good example. Frankly, I would rather have Larry Nance Jr than Andre Drummond.
RE: ROSTER TALK: Trade/FA Ideas (Mar 25 TDL) + Salary Chart - omahen - 02-16-2021
(02-16-2021, 04:12 PM)cow Wrote: He's pretty crucial to helping develop the new/young pieces on the team and if GSW keeps up their play, they'll be angling for a playoff spot or play-in game.
They will also be paying like hundreds of millions of tax money (effectively making his contract cost like 100 mil per year) for a team, that very likely stands no chance of competing for the title. They could probably try to dump Wiggins, but it will take assets. GSW has Wiseman, Minnesota pick that might be excellent if it doesn't end in top 3. Trading Green for draft assets or good young player could speed up the rebuild process significantly and save them a ton of money. They are not that far from getting another lottery pick anyway...
RE: ROSTER TALK: Trade/FA Ideas (Mar 25 TDL) + Salary Chart - KillerLeft - 02-16-2021
(02-16-2021, 04:27 PM)HanspardShowerVoice Wrote: Frankly, I would rather have Larry Nance Jr than Andre Drummond.
Nance is having a great year, and I'd love having him here. Sadly, I don't know why he'd be available.
RE: ROSTER TALK: Trade/FA Ideas (Mar 25 TDL) + Salary Chart - omahen - 02-16-2021
(02-16-2021, 04:29 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: Nance is having a great year, and I'd love having him here. Sadly, I don't know why he'd be available.
Sure he would, if you are paying a FRP or very close to it. Same goes for Thad Young. Would you though? I think it makes no sense. Mavs will only be slightly better and will have an asset less. If you can get him for a second rounder (which I doubt) and there is nothing better outthere, it sure makes more sense than to just waste another expiring asset.
RE: ROSTER TALK: Trade/FA Ideas (Mar 25 TDL) + Salary Chart - HanspardShowerVoice - 02-16-2021
(02-16-2021, 04:29 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: Nance is having a great year, and I'd love having him here. Sadly, I don't know why he'd be available.
No particular reason other than the Cavs having a bazillion F/Cs, even after they release Drummond. But if youre trading assets to the Cavs for a big, I would rather do it for Nance. You get pre-injury Dwight Powell's vertical game with 35+% shooting from 3 and a big who can defend in space and defend on the switch. One of these days Nance will play for a good team rather than being buried on a horrible CLE roster in a no name market and everyone will see his value, imho.
RE: ROSTER TALK: Trade/FA Ideas (Mar 25 TDL) + Salary Chart - cow - 02-16-2021
(02-16-2021, 04:27 PM)omahen Wrote: They will also be paying like hundreds of millions of tax money (effectively making his contract cost like 100 mil per year) for a team, that very likely stands no chance of competing for the title. They could probably try to dump Wiggins, but it will take assets. GSW has Wiseman, Minnesota pick that might be excellent if it doesn't end in top 3. Trading Green for draft assets or good young player could speed up the rebuild process significantly and save them a ton of money. They are not that far from getting another lottery pick anyway...
Do they care about the tax money? I'm still skeptical they'd trade him. I've always thought he'd be perfect alongside Luka.
KP/Powell/JJ works for Draymond/Wiggins :p