MavsBoard
2020-2021 ROSTER TALK: Archived - Printable Version

+- MavsBoard (https://www.mavsboard.com)
+-- Forum: Boards (https://www.mavsboard.com/forumdisplay.php?fid=1)
+--- Forum: Dallas Mavericks and the NBA (https://www.mavsboard.com/forumdisplay.php?fid=2)
+--- Thread: 2020-2021 ROSTER TALK: Archived (/showthread.php?tid=682)

Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 89 90 91 92 93 94 95 96 97 98 99 100 101 102 103 104 105 106 107 108 109 110 111 112 113 114 115 116 117 118 119 120 121 122 123 124 125 126 127 128 129 130 131 132 133 134 135 136 137 138 139 140 141 142 143 144 145 146 147 148 149 150 151 152 153 154 155 156 157 158 159 160 161 162 163 164 165 166 167 168 169 170 171 172 173 174 175 176 177 178 179 180 181 182 183 184 185 186 187 188 189 190 191 192 193 194 195 196 197 198 199 200 201 202 203 204 205 206 207 208 209 210 211 212 213 214 215 216 217 218 219 220 221 222 223 224 225 226 227 228 229 230 231 232 233 234 235 236 237 238 239 240 241 242 243 244 245 246 247 248 249 250 251 252 253 254 255 256 257 258 259 260 261 262 263 264 265 266 267 268 269 270 271 272 273 274 275 276 277 278 279 280 281 282 283 284 285 286 287 288 289 290 291 292 293 294 295 296 297 298 299 300 301 302 303 304 305 306 307 308 309 310 311 312 313 314 315 316 317 318 319 320 321 322 323 324 325 326 327 328 329 330 331 332 333 334 335 336 337 338 339 340 341 342 343 344 345 346 347 348 349 350 351 352 353 354 355 356 357 358 359 360 361 362 363 364 365 366 367 368 369 370 371 372 373 374 375 376 377 378 379 380 381 382 383 384 385 386 387 388 389 390 391 392 393 394 395 396 397 398 399 400 401 402 403 404 405 406 407 408 409 410 411 412 413 414 415 416 417 418 419 420 421 422 423 424 425 426 427 428 429 430 431 432 433 434 435 436 437 438 439 440 441 442 443 444 445 446 447 448 449 450 451 452 453 454 455 456 457 458 459 460 461 462 463 464 465 466 467 468 469 470 471 472 473 474 475 476 477 478 479 480

RE: ROSTER TALK: Trade/FA Ideas (Mar 25 TDL) + Salary Chart - ItsGoTime - 02-12-2021

(02-12-2021, 03:05 AM)Mapka Wrote: Are we talking about player options? I'm pretty sure you can't put a no-trade-clause in an offer-sheet. 
That's how they got Parsons from the Rockets. Maybe there has been a loop closed to not allow that since then, but it has been done. I believe there can be a large trade bonus put in is what I've seen since then with other contracts which isn't a "No" trade clause, it's just a tougher hurdle to jump. Basically, there are ways to make a max contract harder to swallow than just a straight max contract.

RE: ROSTER TALK: Trade/FA Ideas (Mar 25 TDL) + Salary Chart - loki - 02-12-2021

(02-12-2021, 01:38 PM)StepBackJay Wrote: I'd want Capella too and also we would need more salary anyway for salary matching.

I would too, but I see no chance of that happening. He's been amazing for Atlanta. They give up 11.5 pts/100 less with him on the floor.

RE: ROSTER TALK: Trade/FA Ideas (Mar 25 TDL) + Salary Chart - SleepingHero - 02-12-2021

(02-12-2021, 01:38 PM)StepBackJay Wrote: I'd want Capella too and also we would need more salary anyway for salary matching.


Was listening to a Hawks podcast and he said that the Collins-Capela fit hasn't been working out and that Collins needs someone ironically enough like KP to stretch the floor while Collins can roll. 

But finished it off with that there was no chance Dallas trades KP for Capela unless it includes Collins himself, and at that point it doesn't make much sense for either team.

RE: ROSTER TALK: Trade/FA Ideas (Mar 25 TDL) + Salary Chart - ItsGoTime - 02-12-2021

(02-12-2021, 01:51 PM)loki Wrote: I would too, but I see no chance of that happening. He's been amazing for Atlanta. They give up 11.5 pts/100 less with him on the floor.
That's why guaranteed future all star with the meteoric rise every year Jalen Brunson goes with KP!  Big Grin

RE: ROSTER TALK: Trade/FA Ideas (Mar 25 TDL) + Salary Chart - DanSchwartzgan - 02-12-2021

(02-12-2021, 01:25 PM)loki Wrote: I'd look for something around KP to Chicago, Markkanen to Atlanta, and Collins to Dallas.

I think Markkanen to Atl. makes sense.  I think the idea from the Mav's perspective is to add Collins to KP, not replace KP with Collins.

I'm thinking more along the lines of:

Hawks get:  Markkanen/Valentine
Mav's get:  Snell/Collins
Bulls get:  Maxi/DFS

The cost of a premium level starter is two cost controlled above average starters.

RE: ROSTER TALK: Trade/FA Ideas (Mar 25 TDL) + Salary Chart - omahen - 02-12-2021

(02-12-2021, 02:12 PM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: The cost of a premium level starter is two cost controlled above average starters.


Maxi and DFS are not above average starters, imho. Above average rotation players yes. 

Collins is arguably better than Markkanen, so Hawks would need to get more. Maxi/DFS would be likely ok for Bulls, but assets would need to be attached. Green to Bulls, pick to Atlanta? Or the other way around.

RE: ROSTER TALK: Trade/FA Ideas (Mar 25 TDL) + Salary Chart - ItsGoTime - 02-12-2021

(02-12-2021, 02:12 PM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: I think Markkanen to Atl. makes sense.  I think the idea from the Mav's perspective is to add Collins to KP, not replace KP with Collins.

I'm thinking more along the lines of:

Hawks get:  Markkanen/Valentine
Mav's get:  Snell/Collins
Bulls get:  Maxi/DFS

The cost of a premium level starter is two cost controlled above average starters.
I think we'd have to throw in at least a second, if not our last remaining first to ATL. Possibly. I also think Maxi and DFS are not above average starters. At best...to me...they are average, and are probably below average. They are supreme bench players though!

RE: ROSTER TALK: Trade/FA Ideas (Mar 25 TDL) + Salary Chart - KillerLeft - 02-12-2021

(02-12-2021, 02:12 PM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: I think Markkanen to Atl. makes sense.  I think the idea from the Mav's perspective is to add Collins to KP, not replace KP with Collins.

I'm thinking more along the lines of:

Hawks get:  Markkanen/Valentine
Mav's get:  Snell/Collins
Bulls get:  Maxi/DFS

The cost of a premium level starter is two cost controlled above average starters.

I buy your sobering viewpoint on the price, but losing Kleber kills this, specific deal for me a bit. The point of adding a starting 4, to me, is to be able to play all four of your bigs, meaning you'd need Powell or WCS to be the outgoing party.

RE: ROSTER TALK: Trade/FA Ideas (Mar 25 TDL) + Salary Chart - Tyler - 02-12-2021

(02-12-2021, 02:04 PM)SleepingHero Wrote: Was listening to a Hawks podcast and he said that the Collins-Capela fit hasn't been working out and that Collins needs someone ironically enough like KP to stretch the floor while Collins can roll. 

But finished it off with that there was no chance Dallas trades KP for Capela unless it includes Collins himself, and at that point it doesn't make much sense for either team.


Looking at fit on the floor, the most obvious swap for me is Collins for Kleber. Maxi can stretch the floor alongside Capela, and Collins can rim-run next to KP. If I'm Atlanta and don't want to pay Collins the max, Kleber would be a terrific replacement. And Dallas would get a clear starter. Of course I think Dallas would have to include more than just Kleber to get Collins, but that's where I'd probably start. 

One trade I've been thinking about is THJ/Kleber for Bogi/Collins. The teams swap one free agent they may not want to overpay and one under-contract player who they may want to upgrade. Bogi is hurt, but he wasn't exactly lighting the world on fire in Atlanta before that and I'm not convinced the rushed marriage was more than an arrangement of convenience after the Milwaukee deal fell apart. Still, I think he'd be a nice fit next to Luka. Atlanta really needs a long-term solution at SG (Reddish just isn't that good), and THJ has a history with the Hawks. Maybe they'd be more interested in his price tag than the one coming for Collins.

RE: ROSTER TALK: Trade/FA Ideas (Mar 25 TDL) + Salary Chart - ItsGoTime - 02-12-2021

(02-12-2021, 02:20 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: I buy your sobering viewpoint on the price, but losing Kleber kills this, specific deal for me a bit. The point of adding a starting 4, to me, is to be able to play all four of your bigs, meaning you'd need Powell or WCS to be the outgoing party.
To me, IF this is a price they would accept, this trade is a no brainer. Kleber isn't dime a dozen, but we've found him off the scrap heap. THAT is a guy I have confidence that Donnie can find again!

RE: ROSTER TALK: Trade/FA Ideas (Mar 25 TDL) + Salary Chart - DanSchwartzgan - 02-12-2021

(02-12-2021, 02:20 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: I buy your sobering viewpoint on the price, but losing Kleber kills this, specific deal for me a bit. The point of adding a starting 4, to me, is to be able to play all four of your bigs, meaning you'd need Powell or WCS to be the outgoing party.

Good luck with that.  Neither Atlanta nor Chicago need either of them and any proposal that puts them at the center of a deal that brings back an upgraded starter here isn't a serious proposal.

Pretty clearly Collins is an upgrade over Maxi.  To me, that is the point of the trade.  The nice thing about both Atlanta and Chicago is they are trying to take the leap into relevancy.  So, they probably aren't a candidate for selling off good players for draft picks.  So, then you get into what this looks like in terms of on-court contributions right now.  Maxi has to be included in a deal for the other team's PF.  I think DFS can contribute nicely to either team.  Snell is a band aid to get us to the off season (or give Green more time to grow).  I agree we would be a little shy at backup PF, but Collin's O is diverse enough to play with any of KP, Powell and WCS.

RE: ROSTER TALK: Trade/FA Ideas (Mar 25 TDL) + Salary Chart - DanSchwartzgan - 02-12-2021

(02-12-2021, 02:24 PM)Tyler Wrote: One trade I've been thinking about is THJ/Kleber for Bogi/Collins.  

Now, that is interesting also.  You could also do JRich instead of THJ to help more with perimeter D next to Trae Burke-Young

RE: ROSTER TALK: Trade/FA Ideas (Mar 25 TDL) + Salary Chart - omahen - 02-12-2021

(02-12-2021, 02:24 PM)Tyler Wrote: One trade I've been thinking about is THJ/Kleber for Bogi/Collins.


I don't think they would give up on Bogi this fast. I also don't think there is equal value in this trade. Collins is basically near max player - neither THJ or Kleber are close to this and Bogi is not that negative of a value. But THJ could be interesting for them. If you would have Snell instead of Bogi, than yes. Reddish is crap. Either THJ or Bogi could be a 6th man, they can easily coexist. What I would be most scared of would be Atlanta forcing us to eat Rondo contract.

One possibility: THJ+Maxi+Terry for Collins+Snell+Rondo (I would do it, Mavs can just cut Rondo). It looks fair value wise but might be Atlanta would rather want more quality players than just dumping a bad contract.

Alternative could be THJ+Brunson+asset for Collins+Snell

Or: Kleber+DFS+Brunson for Collins+Snell

RE: ROSTER TALK: Trade/FA Ideas (Mar 25 TDL) + Salary Chart - KillerLeft - 02-12-2021

(02-12-2021, 02:24 PM)Tyler Wrote: and Collins can rim-run next to KP.


Great, except KP has literally said that he prefers to be the guy directly involved in the actions, setting screens, etc. 

If that weren't the case, I'd bet money Powell would've been given first crack at the spot Kleber is occupying right now, and if he played well enough, POOF - problem solved. 

I'm not even disagreeing with you - your plan works. I'm just saying that KP seems to want to play a more central role, paired with a floor spacer. And, to this point, Carlisle seems to be going along with that.

RE: ROSTER TALK: Trade/FA Ideas (Mar 25 TDL) + Salary Chart - StepBackJay - 02-12-2021

I would for sure do Maxi+ for Collins. Maxi is one of my favorite players but you cash him in if you get a core top 3 guy on your team. Collins would be that. I think Mavs have some ammunition to make this deal happen. Another team might beat it but Mavs can be in the mix for sure.

RE: ROSTER TALK: Trade/FA Ideas (Mar 25 TDL) + Salary Chart - ItsGoTime - 02-12-2021

(02-12-2021, 02:37 PM)omahen Wrote: Or: Kleber+DFS+Brunson for Collins+Snell
I think this is closer to the value for Collins. It actually might be a bit high for him, but if there are a lot of bidders, I might be willing to go there. Maybe Kleber/JRich for Collins/Snell. That might be exactly what both teams need. Big downgrade from Collins to Kleber for a big upgrade of Snell to JRich.

RE: ROSTER TALK: Trade/FA Ideas (Mar 25 TDL) + Salary Chart - omahen - 02-12-2021

(02-12-2021, 02:31 PM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: The nice thing about both Atlanta and Chicago is they are trying to take the leap into relevancy.


I am not so sure about Chicago. They brought a serius coach this season, but result is basically same as last one. Perhaps a minor tweak or two could make them much better, but I am not so sure. They brought two very solid vets last season in Young and Sato which did absolutely nothing to them in terms of more wins. They lack a good wing. Rookie Williams is more of a PF, at least if he doesn't improve his shot. But they have Markkanen at PF. They also need a good PG. White is not it, imho, he is a SG. LaVine might score a lot but the team is not really profitting from that in terms of more wins. Perhaps a really good floor general would sort their problems. I don't know. I wouldn't be surprised if their management pull some serious rebuilding moves, once they make their plan. I think owner would allow them a rebuild too, if that is what they think its best.

RE: ROSTER TALK: Trade/FA Ideas (Mar 25 TDL) + Salary Chart - SleepingHero - 02-12-2021

It'd be tough to lose Maxi's defense versatility. 

Sure Collins is a better overall player, but Maxi to me is a glue of sorts. We'd need to be 1000% sure Collins will work out if we're giving up Maxi.

RE: ROSTER TALK: Trade/FA Ideas (Mar 25 TDL) + Salary Chart - ItsGoTime - 02-12-2021

(02-12-2021, 02:45 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: Great, except KP has literally said that he prefers to be the guy directly involved in the actions, setting screens, etc. 
This is exactly what I thought about when he said that too.

RE: ROSTER TALK: Trade/FA Ideas (Mar 25 TDL) + Salary Chart - KillerLeft - 02-12-2021

(02-12-2021, 02:31 PM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: Good luck with that.  Neither Atlanta nor Chicago need either of them and any proposal that puts them at the center of a deal that brings back an upgraded starter here isn't a serious proposal.

Pretty clearly Collins is an upgrade over Maxi.  To me, that is the point of the trade.  The nice thing about both Atlanta and Chicago is they are trying to take the leap into relevancy.  So, they probably aren't a candidate for selling off good players for draft picks.  So, then you get into what this looks like in terms of on-court contributions right now.  Maxi has to be included in a deal for the other team's PF.  I think DFS can contribute nicely to either team.  Snell is a band aid to get us to the off season (or give Green more time to grow).  I agree we would be a little shy at backup PF, but Collin's O is diverse enough to play with any of KP, Powell and WCS.


Yeah, I don't disagree, and so I'm not sure there IS a trade fit with Atlanta I'd like. 

I totally agree that Collins is a MASSIVE upgrade over Kleber, but the result of a deal involving DFS and Kleber leaves you in need of way more tinkering. I suppose it's possible that Collins is worth that. I'm not sure. 

I'm 100% not trying to make Richardson/THJ combo work in the starting/closing lineups anymore, if I can help it. I would be TRYING to push one of them in a package, rather than DFS, if it was up to me. My preference would be Richardson going and THJ staying. You can't tell me that either of them is less valuable than DFS, other than the contract, maybe.
(02-12-2021, 02:48 PM)omahen Wrote: I am not so sure about Chicago. They brought a serius coach this season, but result is basically same as last one. Perhaps a minor tweak or two could make them much better, but I am not so sure. They brought two very solid vets last season in Young and Sato which did absolutely nothing to them in terms of more wins. They lack a good wing. Rookie Williams is more of a PF, at least if he doesn't improve his shot. But they have Markkanen at PF. They also need a good PG. White is not it, imho, he is a SG. LaVine might score a lot but the team is not really profitting from that in terms of more wins. Perhaps a really good floor general would sort their problems. I don't know. I wouldn't be surprised if their management pull some serious rebuilding moves, once they make their plan. I think owner would allow them a rebuild too, if that is what they think its best.

Yeah, this is exactly what I was trying to say yesterday. It's tough to tell who's available there and who's not. You could tell me they're going in any one of 3-4 directions and I'd believe you. That probably means that your "I think they're ALL available" was right on target, but my point is that if THEY know who they want to move, it's not clear to me.