(02-11-2021, 04:48 PM)omahen Wrote: Because it is not necessary, they will have to pay max. So why pay max upfront? Perhaps there will be no max offer on the table for him and they will negotiate for less. Worst case, they just match the max offer he gets. Plus, because they didn't extend him at max, they have one more season to determine how much he is worth. It would be impossible to trade him, if he would sign his extension. This way they have all the options open. What I am certain - option that they just let him walk for nothing (not match whatever offer he gets) is not on a table for them. 

Because it is the smart thing to do if he is a cornerstone. Beat writers across the NBA were expressing their surprise across the league that they didn’t sign.  Don’t forget, it is not me but everyone else that says they are not getting rid of him.  Lastly, I don’t think I have ever suggested that they will let him walk for free.

That was actually discussed by many insider beat writers, it is not just my opinion.

Mav’s New Plan A For John Collins
https://www.si.com/nba/mavericks/news/dallas-mavs-trade-idea-a-new-plan-a-for-hawks-john-collins

I have seen more beat writers who think he will leave then stay

So how would giving him a max manage this risk in your opinion? Don't you think, the risk wiould actually be higher... Because if he alienates with Trae you have a max contract you need to get rid of on your hands.. Well, actually you would not be able to get rid of him this season, because of the extension.

See above

(02-11-2021, 03:51 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: My gut says that this would be a short term solution at best, and as I've said in the past, I don't have much interest in those right now for the Mavericks. I think they're too far away to waste time with those. They aren't likely to last long enough to pay off, imo. 

(02-11-2021, 03:51 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: However, he's another short term solution, imo. I think he'd help them quite a bit this year, but in the bird's eye view of where the team is and where they're trying to get (and when), I'm not sure he's more than a bandaid. 

(02-11-2021, 05:47 PM)StepBackJay Wrote: I feel like the spot to upgrade would be to get a scoring big. 

(02-11-2021, 05:08 PM)StepBackJay Wrote: That's the only reason you have a shot to get him. Last year he was a near all-star on a good team. This year he is in a different role and ATL doesn't really know how to use him effectively. Dallas would. Gotta buy low. He would give some scoring punch from the PF spot and I believe you can get him without giving up a top 7 rotation player which is key.

(02-11-2021, 06:04 PM)Fuerza1 Wrote: Kyle Lowry's stats when he was the same age as Brunson

(02-11-2021, 05:45 PM)RDB Wrote: Because it is the smart thing to do if he is a cornerstone.

(02-11-2021, 05:45 PM)RDB Wrote: Mav’s New Plan A For John Collins

(02-11-2021, 06:17 PM)omahen Wrote: We are just spinning in a circle. They were not sure, if he is a cornerstone... They offered 90 mil contract, because this is how much they thought he is worth. He thought he is worth more and decided to bet on himself. This doesn't mean their path is over... Now the Hawks will reevaluate based on half of season performance and make a decision. Trade or keep. 




Trigg Here is a piece from The Athletic with Hollinger and Atlanta beat writer:

https://theathletic.com/2376322/2021/02/09/atlanta-hawks-john-collins-deandre-hunter-cam-reddish/ 

Quote: What I can’t see happening is Schlenk letting Collins walk in free agency for nothing like what Sacramento did with Bogdanovic. There are really only two options that I can foresee happening: Collins returning on a significant salary or the Hawks trading him in a splashy move. I’m sure they will listen to offers, but keeping Collins just seems like the wise decision because of the player he has grown into. He’s one of the best young power forwards in the league.

Even if Atlanta would be willing to just let Collins walk in FA (not match offer sheet), the cost for Mavs would be JRich and THJ, and basically no other way to replace their production. The way for Mavs is to transfer Johnson into a rotation player at TDL and resign their guys, imho. If trade opportunity for a player like Collins appears, you take it, of course.

(02-11-2021, 06:16 PM)Kammrath Wrote: I don't want anything to do with Lowry and think Brunson is better.

(02-11-2021, 06:05 PM)RDB Wrote: Maybe so...I guess I would just like to see us get another major piece that will be around when we get to post max Luka.  At some point we are going to have to make some hard decisions on who we want to be.

(02-11-2021, 06:17 PM)omahen Wrote: Quote: What I can’t see happening is Schlenk letting Collins walk in free agency for nothing like what Sacramento did with Bogdanovic. There are really only two options that I can foresee happening: Collins returning on a significant salary or the Hawks trading him in a splashy move.

(02-11-2021, 06:48 PM)omahen Wrote: I can't agree with this claim. Perhaps Brunson will be better in a few years, but he is certainly not better now. Not even close. Putting aside what it would cost, Lowry would bring exactly what this team needs. Toughness, vet leadership, secondary playmaking, a loud and respected voice in the lockerroom, capable of keeping the youngsters focused, clutch plays. 

The questions with Lowry are:

1. How long till he starts seriously declining. One could be optimistic, look at CP3 and say - he has a couple more years easily. Not really something we could know, teams have access to far, far, far more data to make a better educated decision on this.
2. Are Mavs really just one (good) vet piece away from becoming a serious contender? In my opinion, the answer is yes. 

Than we come to the cost. I am of course not willing to throw serious assets for what can become just a 30 mil vet rental. His 30 mil salary makes it a tough match and I assume Toronto doesn't want long term money. Johnson salary is certainly a start, but we need more. We can go three team way by sending Powell somewhere else. OKC still doesn't own all the picks in the league, for example, so they might be willing to help. Alternatevly we could do Johnson+JRich. Or we could do Johson+THJ while Toronto adds Powell. 

As for assets. I would be all over it if Toronto would take any combination of Green and Terry. I would also give 2027 FRP instead. But I am afraid, Brunson would be most likely the price needed. If the option would be Johnson+THJ+Brunson for Lowry and Powell, I'd do it. 

Luka, Lowry, JRich, Maxi, KP with Powell, Burke, DFS, WCS/Powell as main bench guys would be a very good rotation. Bring a decent PF with MLE in the summer and here we go. J.Green or Portis would be interesting options.

(02-11-2021, 06:39 PM)RDB Wrote: Did you look at the article I posted in my reply regarding thoughts with the Mav’s.

(02-11-2021, 06:16 PM)Kammrath Wrote: I don't want anything to do with Lowry and think Brunson is better.

(02-11-2021, 06:54 PM)ItsGoTime Wrote: This is why you force their hand to either make him a long term player for them or make them deal with you by signing him up with a max no trade clause contract. You then get to deal for him in a position of strength if they decide he isn't a long term player for their team and they make a pennies on the dollar trade for him. That is why they need to decide now if he is a long term player for their team and trade him at the deadline or keep him and match all offers, including a no trade clause one.

(02-11-2021, 07:19 PM)omahen Wrote: Of course, totally agree. They will either trade him or match anything. Hence, there is really no possibility to get him in the summer. This is what I am claiming all the time. That also doesn't mean he will be available for cheap at TDL. Plenty of teams would gladly trade for him. 

And don't forget - Collins has to accept the offer sheet to squeeze Atlanta. It is also possible they just sign new (max) contract as soon as FA opens. Same as Mavs did with KP. This way they avoid those unwanted no trade clauses you are mentioning. If I am not wrong, they can offer him more (additional year) than other teams can with an offer sheet.

(02-11-2021, 07:28 PM)StepBackJay Wrote: So something like Maxi, DFS, Brunson for Collins, Snell would be legal. Would you do that to form a big 3 of Luka, KP, Collins?

(02-11-2021, 07:34 PM)omahen Wrote: I would. We would be a bit thin at back up PF and PG, which we would have to solve with MLE