2020-2021 ROSTER TALK: Archived - Printable Version +- MavsBoard (https://www.mavsboard.com) +-- Forum: Boards (https://www.mavsboard.com/forumdisplay.php?fid=1) +--- Forum: Dallas Mavericks and the NBA (https://www.mavsboard.com/forumdisplay.php?fid=2) +--- Thread: 2020-2021 ROSTER TALK: Archived (/showthread.php?tid=682) Pages:
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
26
27
28
29
30
31
32
33
34
35
36
37
38
39
40
41
42
43
44
45
46
47
48
49
50
51
52
53
54
55
56
57
58
59
60
61
62
63
64
65
66
67
68
69
70
71
72
73
74
75
76
77
78
79
80
81
82
83
84
85
86
87
88
89
90
91
92
93
94
95
96
97
98
99
100
101
102
103
104
105
106
107
108
109
110
111
112
113
114
115
116
117
118
119
120
121
122
123
124
125
126
127
128
129
130
131
132
133
134
135
136
137
138
139
140
141
142
143
144
145
146
147
148
149
150
151
152
153
154
155
156
157
158
159
160
161
162
163
164
165
166
167
168
169
170
171
172
173
174
175
176
177
178
179
180
181
182
183
184
185
186
187
188
189
190
191
192
193
194
195
196
197
198
199
200
201
202
203
204
205
206
207
208
209
210
211
212
213
214
215
216
217
218
219
220
221
222
223
224
225
226
227
228
229
230
231
232
233
234
235
236
237
238
239
240
241
242
243
244
245
246
247
248
249
250
251
252
253
254
255
256
257
258
259
260
261
262
263
264
265
266
267
268
269
270
271
272
273
274
275
276
277
278
279
280
281
282
283
284
285
286
287
288
289
290
291
292
293
294
295
296
297
298
299
300
301
302
303
304
305
306
307
308
309
310
311
312
313
314
315
316
317
318
319
320
321
322
323
324
325
326
327
328
329
330
331
332
333
334
335
336
337
338
339
340
341
342
343
344
345
346
347
348
349
350
351
352
353
354
355
356
357
358
359
360
361
362
363
364
365
366
367
368
369
370
371
372
373
374
375
376
377
378
379
380
381
382
383
384
385
386
387
388
389
390
391
392
393
394
395
396
397
398
399
400
401
402
403
404
405
406
407
408
409
410
411
412
413
414
415
416
417
418
419
420
421
422
423
424
425
426
427
428
429
430
431
432
433
434
435
436
437
438
439
440
441
442
443
444
445
446
447
448
449
450
451
452
453
454
455
456
457
458
459
460
461
462
463
464
465
466
467
468
469
470
471
472
473
474
475
476
477
478
479
480
|
RE: ROSTER TALK: Trade/FA Ideas (Mar 25 TDL?) + Salary Chart - ItsGoTime - 12-09-2020 (12-08-2020, 09:47 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: I'm standing firm on THJ island.In all honesty, I don’t think even you see a place for him in the starting lineup. Your whole hypothesis is for another star playmaker. What position do those mostly come from? THJ and Luka’s spots is the answer. It can come from another position, but the most likely scenerio puts THJ out of the starting position. If he’s not starting, and not playing with Luka lots, I don’t see how you could possibly be on THJ island. This is why the “who” in your statements is important. You’ve named Jrue as the perfect fit and named the FO going after Kemba as the biggest reason for your hypothesis. If Jrue or Kemba were on this team, I hope THJ is not starting! RE: ROSTER TALK: Trade/FA Ideas (Mar 25 TDL?) + Salary Chart - DanSchwartzgan - 12-09-2020 (12-08-2020, 07:52 PM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: Richardsons caphold if he opts out 17.5 mio @98, I've seen you use the $17.5mm number for Richardson before. I believe the actual number in 21 is $16.3 in case it matters to any of your calculations. The hold is 150% of the "prior" year salary. Your $17.5 number would be accurate in 22 if JRich opted into his existing contract for 21. The presumption is he will hit the open market in 21, which makes his hold 150% of his 2020 number (which is $16.3mm). Of course, he could sign first using cap room and possibly make that number smaller. He could also opt in and extend later keeping the number even lower ($11.6mm). But, his extension would be limited to starting at $14mm. Powell and Johnson can combine to bring back someone making $34mm ($11.080 + $16.047 with likely incentives * 1.25% + $100,000). They miss matching Tobias Harris (for instance) by $350,000, which would be fairly easy to overcome. I personally think an in season trade (as you are suggesting) is a better use of resources than waiting for the summer. Absent Gi or Go, there just isn't anyone on the free agent market worth giving up two starters for. Combining Johnson with any of Maxi, Powell, THJ or Richardson seems better than giving up at least two of Maxi, Powell, THJ and Richardson. RE: ROSTER TALK: Trade/FA Ideas (Mar 25 TDL?) + Salary Chart - omahen - 12-09-2020 (12-09-2020, 07:22 AM)DanSchwartzman Wrote: Powell and Johnson can combine to bring back someone making $34mm ($11.080 + $16.047 with likely incentives * 1.25% + $100,000). They miss matching Tobias Harris (for instance) by $350,000, which would be fairly easy to overcome. I personally think an in season trade (as you are suggesting) is a better use of resources than waiting for the summer. Absent Gi or Go, there just isn't anyone on the free agent market worth giving up two starters for. Combining Johnson with any of Maxi, Powell, THJ or Richardson seems better than giving up at least two of Maxi, Powell, THJ and Richardson. Totally agree. Even if, for example, our FA target would be Oladipo, it makes more sense to trade for him before TDL, as long as the price is lower than two starters (THJ and JRich). We would need to renounce them to clear cap space for him. And please, Oladipo is just an example, I don't want whole "I think Oladipo is crap" debate again Unless they will have firm commitments from theoretical possible max worthy free agents (GA, George and Kawhi are the only ones), I think going over the cap gives way more opportunity to upgrade the roster than going the FA way. Again - even if it means a couple of assets. This team is deep and the only thing we need to improve is to upgrade on one or two starter slots, assuming JRich proves he brings what we hope he will. RE: ROSTER TALK: Trade/FA Ideas (Mar 25 TDL?) + Salary Chart - KillerLeft - 12-09-2020 (12-09-2020, 06:16 AM)ItsGoTime Wrote: In all honesty, I don’t think even you see a place for him in the starting lineup. Your whole hypothesis is for another star playmaker. What position do those mostly come from? THJ and Luka’s spots is the answer. It can come from another position, but the most likely scenerio puts THJ out of the starting position. If he’s not starting, and not playing with Luka lots, I don’t see how you could possibly be on THJ island. Oh, I would trade him for a difference maker in a heartbeat, obvs. I just think he's really important this year, and has a great spot in the starting lineup right now. I'm just saying he was a good player for the team last year, not a problem. I think (hope) he will be again, this year. That's the "island" I'm on. RE: ROSTER TALK: Trade/FA Ideas (Mar 25 TDL?) + Salary Chart - KillerLeft - 12-09-2020 (12-09-2020, 07:47 AM)omahen Wrote: Oladipo is just an example, I don't want whole "I think Oladipo is crap" debate again I'll chime in here, because I think I might've been the strongest voice against Oladipo (although there were others). I know we don't want to get into this again, but I just wanted to say that he's a player I'll be watching as closely as possible this season. I DO view him as a possibility at the TDL or in FA...IF he's playing well again. I just wasn't excited about trading for him this time around because of there being so many people out there who flat out don't believe he's any good anymore. If he is, let's get him! The "idealized" version of him certainly checks off some boxes for the team. We should know soon (but the TDL, I'd think) if he'll ever be that guy again. Just one of many, many things that could look a lot differently as time passes. RE: ROSTER TALK: Trade/FA Ideas (Mar 25 TDL?) + Salary Chart - omahen - 12-09-2020 (12-09-2020, 09:26 AM)KillerLeft Wrote: Just one of many, many things that could look a lot differently as time passes. Another thing that will look completely different if he does an all star performance, will be his price RE: ROSTER TALK: Trade/FA Ideas (Mar 25 TDL?) + Salary Chart - KillerLeft - 12-09-2020 (12-09-2020, 09:42 AM)omahen Wrote: Another thing that will look completely different if he does an all star performance, will be his price Oh, for sure, but maybe not by a huge margin. I think the reason there was "no trade market" was that A) Indiana wanted a lot for him and B) Oladipo wants to get PAID. I think that if he plays well this season, teams might think he's worth paying the price that's already there (or maybe even more). Alternatively, I think if he continues NOT to play well, both the trade price and his personal idea of what his next deal should be might drift a bit closer to (that) reality. Either way, I think he's definitely a person of interest for the Mavs moving forward, at least. That's all I wanted to say. I'm not AGAINST the player coming here (it's not like he's Tobias Harris), I just want to see if he'll ever be good again before paying him or giving anything up for him. RE: ROSTER TALK: Trade/FA Ideas (Mar 25 TDL?) + Salary Chart - michaeltex - 12-09-2020 (12-09-2020, 09:04 AM)KillerLeft Wrote: I just think he's really important this year, and has a great spot in the starting lineup right now. I'm just saying he was a good player for the team last year, not a problem. I think (hope) he will be again, this year. That's the "island" I'm on.Thing is, this is a "contract" year for THJ so he's going to be all out to position for his next contract and I expect we will see that in his numbers. So, for the upcoming season at least, I expect him to at least equal last season and maybe improve a little. Longer term reverting to the mean may be a concern, although if he knows his role on a successful team maybe this will be his new normal. That's where roster stability, like GSW or SAN, comes in to maintain everyone's identity within the system. I DO have a mild concern of THJ trying to do too much to pad his stats. IF he becomes a ball stopper or starts forcing shots outside the offensive flow, then that's something the team will have to address. RE: ROSTER TALK: Trade/FA Ideas (Mar 25 TDL?) + Salary Chart - KillerLeft - 12-09-2020 (12-09-2020, 09:59 AM)michaeltex Wrote: I DO have a mild concern of THJ trying to do too much to pad his stats. IF he becomes a ball stopper or starts forcing shots outside the offensive flow, then that's something the team will have to address. This is reasonable. I just have the feeling that how he was used here (and with whom he played) was a big part of why he was effective. He wasn’t a ball-stopper last season, and I have to think he’s smart enough to see that last year was a positive for him (and why). RE: ROSTER TALK: Trade/FA Ideas (Mar 25 TDL?) + Salary Chart - omahen - 12-10-2020 (12-09-2020, 09:26 AM)KillerLeft Wrote: I know we don't want to get into this again, but I just wanted to say that he's a player I'll be watching as closely as possible this season. I DO view him as a possibility at the TDL or in FA...IF he's playing well again. I just wasn't excited about trading for him this time around because of there being so many people out there who flat out don't believe he's any good anymore. If he is, let's get him! The "idealized" version of him certainly checks off some boxes for the team. We should know soon (but the TDL, I'd think) if he'll ever be that guy again. This piece opens an interesting dilemma. Assuming he will be good - how long does he have to be good for you to be convinced he is good? The longer you wait, more likely a competitor jumps in. https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2921538-predictions-for-nbas-top-5-trade-targets-right-now RE: ROSTER TALK: Trade/FA Ideas (Mar 25 TDL?) + Salary Chart - KillerLeft - 12-10-2020 @"omahen" I would be interested in buying early on some players, for sure. I actually think Christian Wood might look like a missed opportunity in a year or two. So, I get the point. I just don't see Oladipo in that light. Since my belief is that he won't be a very good player moving forward, I'm not interested in beating the competition to him. If he ends up proving me wrong and the Mavs trade for him, I'll be excited, but if he ends up being awesome and some other team gets him, I'll be fine with that. It won't change the history of how I assess the situation right now, if that makes sense, and I just think the team's future is too precious to gamble on a player like that. I get that you and some others are reasonably convinced he'll be good, but I'm just not. RE: ROSTER TALK: Trade/FA Ideas (Mar 25 TDL?) + Salary Chart - omahen - 12-10-2020 (12-10-2020, 03:00 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: @omahen I would be interested in buying early on some players, for sure. I actually think Christian Wood might look like a missed opportunity in a year or two. So, I get the point. I was speaking about Oladipo, didn't realize the link will show Harden. ASSUME he will be good. How many good games does he needs to have to convince you he is worth trading for? Interesting dilemma imho. RE: ROSTER TALK: Trade/FA Ideas (Mar 25 TDL?) + Salary Chart - KillerLeft - 12-10-2020 (12-10-2020, 03:11 PM)omahen Wrote: I was speaking about Oladipo, didn't realize the link will show Harden. ASSUME he will be good. How many good games does he needs to have to convince you he is worth trading for? Interesting dilemma imho. Yeah, I assumed you were talking about Oladipo. To answer the question, I would think him being a healthy and difference making player up to the trade deadline would move the needle a bit for me. RE: ROSTER TALK: Trade/FA Ideas (Mar 25 TDL?) + Salary Chart - fifteenth - 12-10-2020 Home Depot? RE: ROSTER TALK: Trade/FA Ideas (Mar 25 TDL?) + Salary Chart - DanSchwartzgan - 12-12-2020 Question (since he went 1/11 last night): If you were willing to trade Wright/Jackson/18 for Jerami Grant prior to the draft... Are you willing to deal Johnson/Green for him now (and give Detroit the entire middle of the first round ) The question assumes GA signs the Super Max I was reading Hollinger's preview of the Pistons and I still don't get the Grant signing (BTW, who was it who kept telling me Denver would never "let" Grant go because they invested a first round pick to get him?). Grant is miscast (IMHO) in a higher usage role within the offense. $20mm seems an overpay by maybe $5mm. BUT, if Detroit has buyers remorse, his skill set might fit well here. Trading for him allows you to keep everyone (RJich, THJ, WCS) and move Powell/DFS to super sub roles alongside Maxi and Brunson AND you'd have the Full MLE instead of the Room MLE next summer. If such a deal came up...would you? RE: ROSTER TALK: Trade/FA Ideas (Mar 25 TDL?) + Salary Chart - omahen - 12-12-2020 (12-12-2020, 10:26 AM)DanSchwartzman Wrote: who was it who kept telling me Denver would never "let" Grant Well, they didn't let him go, reportedly they actually matched the offer. He chose to go. (12-12-2020, 10:26 AM)DanSchwartzman Wrote: If such a deal came up...would you? No. His reason to leave was to have a leading offensive role. Denver couldn't offer it and we would not either. Last thing I would want would be an unhappy player on a three year 60 mil contract. If we are speaking about overpaid players, Harris is still much better choice for me. RE: ROSTER TALK: Trade/FA Ideas (Mar 25 TDL?) + Salary Chart - DanSchwartzgan - 12-12-2020 (12-12-2020, 10:31 AM)omahen Wrote: Well, they didn't let him go, reportedly they actually matched the offer. He chose to go. Which was my point all along. Denver had no control no matter what they paid to get him. He wasn't theirs to "let" do anything. RE: ROSTER TALK: Trade/FA Ideas (Mar 25 TDL?) + Salary Chart - KillerLeft - 12-12-2020 I'd still have some interest in Grant, yes. I believe he'd be better here than he is about to be in Detroit, where he'll play out of position on a team with very little offensive discipline. He's overpaid, but only by a little. It's not a Tobias Harris situation. This probably wouldn't be my first choice of post-Giannis targets, but he'd be on the list somewhere. RE: ROSTER TALK: Trade/FA Ideas (Mar 25 TDL?) + Salary Chart - omahen - 12-12-2020 (12-12-2020, 11:34 AM)KillerLeft Wrote: I believe he'd be better here than he is about to be in Detroit, where he'll play out of position on a team with very little offensive discipline. I agree he would be better here. Point is - he wanted to be in a situation he has in Detroit, not in a similar situation he would have in Dallas. RE: ROSTER TALK: Trade/FA Ideas (Mar 25 TDL?) + Salary Chart - KillerLeft - 12-12-2020 (12-12-2020, 11:38 AM)omahen Wrote: I agree he would be better here. Point is - he wanted to be in a situation he has in Detroit, not in a similar situation he would have in Dallas. Oh, I absolutely would be ok with him being on-ball more. That wouldn't be an issue at all. I think he can do more with the ball than Porzingis. That's not what I meant about him being better here. |