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2020-2021 ROSTER TALK: Archived - Printable Version

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RE: ROSTER TALK: Trade/FA Ideas (Mar 25 TDL) + Salary Chart - KillerLeft - 02-01-2021

(02-01-2021, 01:19 PM)SleepingHero Wrote: KP's ability to shoot from distance at an efficient rate, coupled with his historical great rim protection and high mobility (for a bigman). Also he's 7'3 and that size alone changes how teams need to prepare for you.


Interesting. I have no desire to paint a target on my back for the analytics guys, but I feel like I've seen very little evidence that Porzingis is valuable on defense at all since coming to Dallas. I've just about given up on that. Maybe I shouldn't. 

I actually wonder whether his size (in combination with his play style) is a negative. He has a handle, but not one that overcomes his awkward movement and balance. His reflexes and reaction speed have seemed a second behind everyone else, especially lately. This might be temporary, but he doesn't seem like he'll ever become as fluid and dangerous as the Dirk, Rasheed Wallace, Garnett, Webber era 4's. I think the current arms race is finding a guy who can take part in changing the 5 position the way those guys changed the 4 position. I had high hopes that Porzingis could be on the cutting edge of that, but I'm losing the faith. For one reason or another, Davis, Embiid, KAT and Adebayo all seem to be in a different league, to me.

It's difficult to predict the future, though, and I DEFINITELY think having a guy to pull the Bam, Davis, Gobert defensive types out of the paint is UBER valuable. So, just the combo of his shooting and size can be pretty damn valuable, provided he starts making shots again and he/Carlisle figure out ways of forcing opposing teams to guard him with their centers. That high post game isn't doing the trick, because he lets teams get away with cross-guarding him with smaller defenders. That means that currently, the only way to get the matchup you need for KP to help Luka with spacing is to go super small, which has a negative impact on the defensive end. 

It's a pickle.

RE: ROSTER TALK: Trade/FA Ideas (Mar 25 TDL) + Salary Chart - cow - 02-01-2021

Just don't understand the desire for Adams. I'd want my 4/5 positions next to Luka to have more bounce or more range. Adams certainly helps with rebounding and is a great team guy, but I'd guess Drummond would be cheaper to acquire and offers a more attractive skillset to pair with Luka. Nether are perfect of course.

RE: ROSTER TALK: Trade/FA Ideas (Mar 25 TDL) + Salary Chart - F Gump - 02-01-2021

(02-01-2021, 01:31 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: That means that currently, the only way to get the matchup you need for KP to help Luka with spacing is to go super small, which has a negative impact on the defensive end. 

It's a pickle.

It should be obvious by now, as you noted, that the Mavs need to utilize 2 bigs rather than one. It feels like the Mavs do have the players to make this work. The problem is that the results haven't been there.

Maxi returning will provide a floor spacing big, if KP can't do that. (Unless Maxi has lost his ability to shoot, too.) So far this year the best result has been Maxi as the stretch big with WCS (rather than DP) as the roll/interior big.

But in theory, stretch 5 is KP's job and something he should be capable of handling. If he can't make shots at a really good TS%, that's a big problem.

I do think that part of the problem is the lack of enough true bigs lately to comfortably use them in pairs. They have only had 3 suited up at a time. (Johnson is more of a wing forward, and smaller.) Hopefully the return to a full complement will make a significant difference in how they are used, and the results.

RE: ROSTER TALK: Trade/FA Ideas (Mar 25 TDL) + Salary Chart - SleepingHero - 02-01-2021

(02-01-2021, 01:31 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: I have no desire to paint a target on my back for the analytics guys, but I feel like I've seen very little evidence that Porzingis is valuable on defense at all since coming to Dallas. I've just about given up on that. Maybe I shouldn't


I don't want to throw a bunch of numbers at you because sometimes it gets tiring when we're just trying to talk basketball. I guess KP's value on defense depends on what you value most. With him defending the PnR, he's quite bad. As are most if not all bigmen. Yes some do it better than others, but almost zero bigmen have the ability to keep up laterally with a good NBA guard. Rudy Gobert is the only one that comes to mind that manages to use his length so well it makes up for that deficiency. 

But KP as a rim protector/paint defender? He's in the upper echelon. KP had 29/57 games where he had 3 or more blocks. He only recorded 1 or less block 9 times last year. So 48 times he recorded 2 or more blocks. 

Opponents shot 44.8% against KP last year, good for 10th in the league (Rudy was #1 at 40%). KP is actually 5th so far this year at 45%. 

So KP has tremendous value as a weakside shot blocker and general intimidator around the paint. We've seen first hand how having someone like that can the whole team with Tyson. KP just so happens to also have the ability to shoot all the way out to 3pt land like Dirk, albeit less efficiently. 

I tried not to throw too many metrics, but did want to point out that KP is a GOOD defender here. Just not on the perimeter and we shouldn't expect him to be. 



(02-01-2021, 01:31 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: I actually wonder whether his size (in combination with his play style) is a negative. He has a handle, but not one that overcomes his awkward movement and balance. His reflexes and reaction speed have seemed a second behind everyone else, especially lately. This might be temporary, but he doesn't seem like he'll ever become as fluid and dangerous as the Dirk, Rasheed Wallace, Garnett, Webber era 4's. I think the current arms race is finding a guy who can take part in changing the 5 position the way those guys changed the 4 position. I had high hopes that Porzingis could be on the cutting edge of that, but I'm losing the faith. For one reason or another, Davis, Embiid, KAT and Adebayo all seem to be in a different league, to me.


There is merit to this. I think it's as negative as a picture as you can paint of KP. But he does seem to look awkward out there. Off-balance is a good label. I don't think fluidity is inherent to being a top player at your position. I remember Yao Ming looking like he might topple over at any second but he still managed to be very effective. I think his balance issues are a concern though, but it might be a by-product of being so tall and slender, which are attributes that make him so unique for his position. 


(02-01-2021, 01:31 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: It's difficult to predict the future, though, and I DEFINITELY think having a guy to pull the Bam, Davis, Gobert defensive types out of the paint is UBER valuable. So, just the combo of his shooting and size can be pretty damn valuable, provided he starts making shots again and he/Carlisle figure out ways of forcing opposing teams to guard him with their centers.


And that's where I'm at right now. KP allows you to go small without actually giving up size just because of his skillset in his body. Being able to make Rudy leave the paint curtails his effectiveness by a good deal. Something we shouldn't be handing away just because of a bad stretch of games!


(02-01-2021, 01:31 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: That high post game isn't doing the trick, because he lets teams get away with cross-guarding him with smaller defenders. That means that currently, the only way to get the matchup you need for KP to help Luka with spacing is to go super small, which has a negative impact on the defensive end. 



His center of gravity is definitely a pickle, and makes KP easy to guard in the post. Like you said the Mavs would have to go super small which is an issue all on its own. That's why I wanted Giannis so bad. You couldn't play small with those 2 on the court, and if one is switched onto KP, it means either Luka/Giannis/THJ? would have a big to attack off the perimeter. 

Perhaps the Mavs in that vein the Mavs should try to go hard after a Siakam trade, because he fits that Giannis mold well but just keep KP and run with that trio.

RE: ROSTER TALK: Trade/FA Ideas (Mar 25 TDL) + Salary Chart - KillerLeft - 02-01-2021

(02-01-2021, 01:54 PM)SleepingHero Wrote: But KP as a rim protector/paint defender? He's in the upper echelon. KP had 29/57 games where he had 3 or more blocks. He only recorded 1 or less block 9 times last year. So 48 times he recorded 2 or more blocks. 


Well, I just hope he can back to that at some point. This has definitely not been in line with my observations of him during this season. I might be letting recency bias creep in a bit though. I suppose it's possible that he's still simply in recovery mode a bit, and that he'll get better as he gets more confident. 


(02-01-2021, 01:54 PM)SleepingHero Wrote: There is merit to this. I think it's as negative as a picture as you can paint of KP. But he does seem to look awkward out there. Off-balance is a good label. I don't think fluidity is inherent to being a top player at your position. I remember Yao Ming looking like he might topple over at any second but he still managed to be very effective.


See, I think Yao Ming was very fluid, when playing HIS GAME. He definitely couldn't have done some of the things KP tries to do, which is my point. KP seems to want to play like Dirk, not like Yao Ming. He ALMOST has some skills that translate to that role, but I very much believe that fluidity and balance are holding him back, and that MAYBE if he were 6'11" or 7' he'd be a little bit better. To play more like Yao Ming, he'd obviously need to get stronger. 

I like @"Kammrath"'s notion that KP should lean a little harder into the physical side of his position and get into the paint more by rolling or cutting. I think his length is asset to him there, although a big part of the problem, imo, is that he's just not particularly good at setting screens. As it stands, the only useful application of his height/length is that he requires less space to get a good shot off the catch than most players. Less than ANY other catch and shoot guy, actually. This is insanely valuable, but not unless he makes defenders pay by sagging off of him. Bricking shots with 17 seconds on the clock so lets the defense off the hook. 

Further, even though I believe that he's extremely valuable as a floor spacer (when playing well), I wonder whether that skillset, alone, is valuable enough to justify spending 30% of the cap on him. I would think he'd need to be more of the contributor you see on the defensive end OR be an option to INITIATE offense in some really efficient way. Both, ideally. I believe that the shooting will return, and that Carlisle will put the team in position to benefit from it. The other two...starting to worry.

RE: ROSTER TALK: Trade/FA Ideas (Mar 25 TDL) + Salary Chart - Tyler - 02-01-2021

Interesting odds...

https://twitter.com/MavsFilmRoom/status/1356358265555345408

RE: ROSTER TALK: Trade/FA Ideas (Mar 25 TDL) + Salary Chart - MaxiThreeba - 02-01-2021

(02-01-2021, 05:00 PM)Tyler Wrote: Interesting odds...

https://twitter.com/MavsFilmRoom/status/1356358265555345408

Cuban could just say screw the LT and offer to bail the Wizards out. 

Beal, Westbrook, Bryant for THJ, JRich, JJ, Powell, Brunson, Boban and Terry. 

Wiz get to hit the reset button even though they have to take on Powell’s deal.  

Mavs roll out KP, Kleber, DFS, Beal and Luka. 

Tell Russ he gets free reign of the second unit with Bryant as the KP insurance.  

Mavs have to roll with the baby wings (Green, Iwundu, Bey, Hinton) and maybe some vet min buyout guys come on board.  

Wiz don’t get the high end young talent or draft capital they want for Beal but the trade off is they get to be done with Westbrook’s massive contract. 

Will it happen?  No. 
Would it be a smart move? No.

Would the starting 5 and super sixth man Russ make for an interesting watch? Yes

RE: ROSTER TALK: Trade/FA Ideas (Mar 25 TDL) + Salary Chart - RDB - 02-01-2021

(02-01-2021, 01:19 PM)SleepingHero Wrote: Also he's 7'3 and that size alone changes how teams need to prepare for you. 

Just a very unique package that you really never see.

[Image: 4-BE2-D9-D8-FF85-4-B7-A-A411-D9-F4-D66-A9-DEC.jpg]

Big Grin

RE: ROSTER TALK: Trade/FA Ideas (Mar 25 TDL) + Salary Chart - michaeltex - 02-01-2021

(02-01-2021, 05:31 PM)MaxiThreeba Wrote: Cuban could just say screw the LT and offer to bail the Wizards out. 

Beal, Westbrook, Bryant for THJ, JRich, JJ, Powell, Brunson, Boban and Terry. 

Wiz get to hit the reset button even though they have to take on Powell’s deal.  

Mavs roll out KP, Kleber, DFS, Beal and Luka. 

Tell Russ he gets free reign of the second unit with Bryant as the KP insurance.  

Mavs have to roll with the baby wings (Green, Iwundu, Bey, Hinton) and maybe some vet min buyout guys come on board.  

Wiz don’t get the high end young talent or draft capital they want for Beal but the trade off is they get to be done with Westbrook’s massive contract. 

Will it happen?  No. 
Would it be a smart move? No.

Would the starting 5 and super sixth man Russ make for an interesting watch? Yes
Interesting, but I can't see Russell "Headcase" Westbrook sitting on the bench and not being a locker room issue. He forced out of HOU because he wasn't happy with being #2 (or even #1B). In the above scenario, I think he's the 2nd coming of Rondo, with a dash of Lamar Odom for seasoning.

RE: ROSTER TALK: Trade/FA Ideas (Mar 25 TDL) + Salary Chart - StepBackJay - 02-01-2021

(02-01-2021, 11:55 AM)Kammrath Wrote: In this wild hypothetical I would pursue Adams to put with Pascal and Luka.

I don't see why NO would want to part with him when they just got him.

RE: ROSTER TALK: Trade/FA Ideas (Mar 25 TDL) + Salary Chart - MaxiThreeba - 02-01-2021

(02-01-2021, 05:53 PM)michaeltex Wrote: Interesting, but I can't see Russell "Headcase" Westbrook sitting on the bench and not being a locker room issue. He forced out of HOU because he wasn't happy with being #2 (or even #1B). In the above scenario, I think he's the 2nd coming of Rondo, with a dash of Lamar Odom for seasoning.

Oh he would ruin the locker room and Rick might quit.

But if he wasn't the head case he is he would be an awesome (and INCREDIBLY overpaid) 6th man.  Could still get 30-34 minutes a night.

Luka - 34
Beal - 34
DFS - 28
Maxi - 28
KP - 30

Russ - 34
Bryant - 28

Leaves 24 minutes for Burke, WCS, and the baby wings to fight over.

Of course to get those minute totals you would have a decent chunk of Russ-Luka-Beal minutes which would be....interesting.

It would likely implode in trainwreck style and one injury would destroy what little hope there would be.  But it would be fun to watch Luka and Beal destroy defenses and Westbrook be an absolute wild man with the second unit.

I'm not positive the Wizards would turn that down just because of the value of getting off Russ' contract and truly getting a fresh start.

RE: ROSTER TALK: Trade/FA Ideas (Mar 25 TDL) + Salary Chart - RDB - 02-01-2021

(02-01-2021, 01:11 PM)SleepingHero Wrote: I think KP has higher upside than Pascal which makes me hesitant to even consider a swap. But if we were to ever trade KP, then a player like Pascal would be the baseline return I'd be looking for.
I like KP but I have a hard time figuring out what his upside is?  His game and stats are similar after 4+ years.  Is his game what it is...does he not want to change...has he ever been asked to evolve his role?

RE: ROSTER TALK: Trade/FA Ideas (Mar 25 TDL) + Salary Chart - StepBackJay - 02-01-2021

(02-01-2021, 06:22 PM)RDB Wrote: I like KP but I have a hard time figuring out what his upside is?  His game and stats are similar after 4+ years.  Is his game what it is...does he not want to change...has he ever been asked to evolve his role?

We saw some of his upside last year. Good scorer, defensive presence, creates spacing and can shoot from outside. 

This year's KP is not shooting well or playing good defense and generally looks out of sorts. He is still managing to put up 18/8 so there's that. He definitely has upside as an all-starish 2 way player unless you believe that injuries have significantly lowered his ceiling. I don't think every GM believes that.

I do like Siakim tho, I would be happy with that swap.

RE: ROSTER TALK: Trade/FA Ideas (Mar 25 TDL) + Salary Chart - DrMav - 02-01-2021

No way Westbrook would fit here, basketball aside, from the simple fact that the guy takes everything personally and I’m pretty sure he hates Cuban due to old comments.

RE: ROSTER TALK: Trade/FA Ideas (Mar 25 TDL) + Salary Chart - SleepingHero - 02-01-2021

(02-01-2021, 05:31 PM)MaxiThreeba Wrote: Cuban could just say screw the LT and offer to bail the Wizards out. 

Beal, Westbrook, Bryant for THJ, JRich, JJ, Powell, Brunson, Boban and Terry. 

Wiz get to hit the reset button even though they have to take on Powell’s deal.  

Mavs roll out KP, Kleber, DFS, Beal and Luka. 

Tell Russ he gets free reign of the second unit with Bryant as the KP insurance.  

Mavs have to roll with the baby wings (Green, Iwundu, Bey, Hinton) and maybe some vet min buyout guys come on board.  

Wiz don’t get the high end young talent or draft capital they want for Beal but the trade off is they get to be done with Westbrook’s massive contract. 

Will it happen?  No. 
Would it be a smart move? No.

Would the starting 5 and super sixth man Russ make for an interesting watch? Yes


Is it bad that I think it'd be a smart move? I think the starting lineup would actually be:

Westbrook
Beal
Luka
Maxi
KP

At first that doesn't make sense, but when you think about it, Russ can be that secondary creator we've wanted next to Luka that can create off the dribble. Beal/KP/Maxi all space the floor so you can't pack the paint and this will finally make Luka play some off ball. 

Luka/Beal can come off at 7 mins, and you can have a 2 man game with KP/Russ. Then Luka Beal, etc. 

It think that'd actually work really really well. I'm not even kidding. Bryant tore his ACL so he'd be a deadweight throw in. I'd trade all our firsts for Beal alone so I wouldn't mind going all in with this deal.

The only hangup would be WB attitude and how he'd like playing 2nd fiddle next to Luka. But the Mavs would create a super big 2 with Luka/Beal alone. Maybe he'd put his attitude aside and would want to win a ring.

RE: ROSTER TALK: Trade/FA Ideas (Mar 25 TDL) + Salary Chart - RDB - 02-01-2021

(02-01-2021, 08:05 PM)StepBackJay Wrote: We saw some of his upside last year. Good scorer, defensive presence, creates spacing and can shoot from outside. 

This year's KP is not shooting well or playing good defense and generally looks out of sorts. He is still managing to put up 18/8 so there's that. He definitely has upside as an all-starish 2 way player unless you believe that injuries have significantly lowered his ceiling. I don't think every GM believes that.

I do like Siakim tho, I would be happy with that swap.
I honestly don’t know much about Siakim and didn’t see a lot of KP his first 2 years.  He just seems to be a bit of an enigma.  I’m not in the trade KP camp (at this point anyway) but I would love to see him improve his efficiency and evolve his game.  He also seems to have a bit of selfishness to his game but that may just be my perception from a distance.

RE: ROSTER TALK: Trade/FA Ideas (Mar 25 TDL) + Salary Chart - MaxiThreeba - 02-01-2021

(02-01-2021, 08:50 PM)SleepingHero Wrote: Is it bad that I think it'd be a smart move? I think the starting lineup would actually be:

Westbrook
Beal
Luka
Maxi
KP

At first that doesn't make sense, but when you think about it, Russ can be that secondary creator we've wanted next to Luka that can create off the dribble. Beal/KP/Maxi all space the floor so you can't pack the paint and this will finally make Luka play some off ball. 

Luka/Beal can come off at 7 mins, and you can have a 2 man game with KP/Russ. Then Luka Beal, etc. 

It think that'd actually work really really well. I'm not even kidding. Bryant tore his ACL so he'd be a deadweight throw in. I'd trade all our firsts for Beal alone so I wouldn't mind going all in with this deal.

The only hangup would be WB attitude and how he'd like playing 2nd fiddle next to Luka. But the Mavs would create a super big 2 with Luka/Beal alone. Maybe he'd put his attitude aside and would want to win a ring.


Had no clue Bryant tore his ACL. I like his game but haven’t been really plugged in to as much NBA as usual.  

I’m not in the trade KP camp (yet) but I am in the find someone that can fill his role and maybe make him expendable one day...it’s why I was all in on Christian Wood. 

I just don’t trust KP’s health or his head

RE: ROSTER TALK: Trade/FA Ideas (Mar 25 TDL) + Salary Chart - ThisIStheYear - 02-01-2021

I’ve seen enough. Time to make the call. This roster just doesn’t work. The sum is less than its parts. The roster has failed. Tear it down. There’s not much here worth keeping. Luka, Maxi, Brunson. Send the rest of them packing. You need to find 4 starters and two more rotation players, including a one all star. The front office better get to work.

RE: ROSTER TALK: Trade/FA Ideas (Mar 25 TDL) + Salary Chart - Scott41theMavs - 02-01-2021

(02-01-2021, 11:24 PM)ThisIStheYear Wrote: I’ve seen enough. Time to make the call. This roster just doesn’t work. The sum is less than its parts. The roster has failed. Tear it down. There’s not much here worth keeping. Luka, Maxi, Brunson. Send the rest of them packing. You need to find 4 starters and two more rotation players, including a one all star. The front office better get to work.

I think JRich is a legit starter and DFS is a good guy to have off the bench.

RE: ROSTER TALK: Trade/FA Ideas (Mar 25 TDL) + Salary Chart - cow - 02-01-2021

(02-01-2021, 05:31 PM)MaxiThreeba Wrote: Cuban could just say screw the LT and offer to bail the Wizards out. 

Beal, Westbrook, Bryant for THJ, JRich, JJ, Powell, Brunson, Boban and Terry. 

Wiz get to hit the reset button even though they have to take on Powell’s deal.  

Mavs roll out KP, Kleber, DFS, Beal and Luka. 

Tell Russ he gets free reign of the second unit with Bryant as the KP insurance.  

Mavs have to roll with the baby wings (Green, Iwundu, Bey, Hinton) and maybe some vet min buyout guys come on board.  

Wiz don’t get the high end young talent or draft capital they want for Beal but the trade off is they get to be done with Westbrook’s massive contract. 

Will it happen?  No. 
Would it be a smart move? No.

Would the starting 5 and super sixth man Russ make for an interesting watch? Yes

I'm not sure why the Wizards would do this?  I get the salary dump, but why not just trade Beal for 3 FRPs and let Russ bottom your team out as you rebuild?