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+--- Thread: 2020-2021 ROSTER TALK: Archived (/showthread.php?tid=682)
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RE: ROSTER TALK: Trade/FA Ideas (Mar 25 TDL) + Salary Chart - KillerLeft - 01-26-2021
(01-26-2021, 02:44 PM)RDB Wrote: There is a diamond in the rough in Atlanta. I keep bring up his name and am going to ride that horse until my dreams are finally crushed.
Right there with you, my guy.
RE: ROSTER TALK: Trade/FA Ideas (Mar 25 TDL) + Salary Chart - StepBackJay - 01-26-2021
We need to trade for J Rich, DFS and Powell this week and Maxi next week.
RE: ROSTER TALK: Trade/FA Ideas (Mar 25 TDL) + Salary Chart - dirkfansince1998 - 01-26-2021
(01-26-2021, 02:26 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: Gotcha, thanks.
Yeah, I hate the drop coverage, too. It has definitely contributed to a lot of the made 3's the Mavs have given up recently, and makes the guards work EXTREMELY hard on defense.
I sure hope KP's poor defensive play is temporary. Otherwise, the team is in a lot of trouble because they're basically married to him for a while. Poor play + major injury issues + max contract isn't a great recipe for movability.
Sabonis 3/4
Aldridge 4/7
Cousins 4/8
from 3
Looked like a shooting drill for bigman with 3-point range.
RE: ROSTER TALK: Trade/FA Ideas (Mar 25 TDL) + Salary Chart - KillerLeft - 01-26-2021
(01-26-2021, 02:53 PM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: Sabonis 3/4
Aldridge 4/7
Cousins 4/8
from 3
Looked like a shooting drill for bigman with 3-point range.
For sure. To be fair, WCS was involved in a lot of that, and while I'm sure there's a good reason, I can't figure out why they're playing drop coverage with HIM. Isn't the entire advantage of a player like WCS the idea that he's switchable? Why, then, are they playing drop coverage when HE is involved?
RE: ROSTER TALK: Trade/FA Ideas (Mar 25 TDL) + Salary Chart - DanSchwartzgan - 01-27-2021
Zach Harper has a piece on the buyout market. Candidates include Drummond, Zeller, R. Lopez, McGee, Biyombo, Cousins, Muscala, E. Davis, Felicio, O. Porter, J. Parker, Ariza, Ellington, D. Miller, D. Rose, G. Temple, Exum. Obviously teams would prefer a trade to an outright cut or buyout if they can bring back an asset. But, in this season of no butts in the seats, a buyout might be a fruitful way to save a dollar or two.
Here is what he had to say about Drummond, Zeller, O. Porter and D. Rose. Dallas would probably have to trade for any of these because they would likely go to Brooklyn or a LA team if given the choice...
Andre Drummond, center, Cleveland Cavaliers
Drummond is the most intriguing player on this list outside of maybe Derrick Rose. A couple of league sources mentioned after the Harden trade to Brooklyn that it’s a matter of time before he finds his way into a buyout and joins up to give them help with the interior. Drummond is a difficult player to figure out because of how he wants to fit. He’s obviously better than the Kendrick Perkins option the Thunder once had, but Drummond does require you to waste possessions throughout a game throwing it to him in the post. If you can get Drummond to run the floor, catch lobs, set screens, rebound the hell out of the ball and play defense, he’s a great option for someone like the Nets.
However, if he wants to be hyper-involved as a scoring option on a team with KD, Kyrie and Harden, then that’s going to be a problem. He’s better than Jordan at this point, but how much better when you consider how he’ll want to be used? The idea of him in Boston is intriguing, but I’d be shocked if Danny Ainge decided to take that gamble. He doesn’t fit in Milwaukee. Maybe the Clippers would try him in the mix, but those seem like the only options.
Cody Zeller, center, Charlotte Hornets
I’ve been waiting to see if Zeller can find his way out of Charlotte to play in some meaningful games. He’s a guy who loves to run the floor. He can rebound. He can be a great pick-and-roll option, and he’s a very solid defender all over the floor. Zeller consistently does a good job of being in position on defense. He simply hasn’t been someone put in a position where he’s playing next to a lot of talent. He played with Kemba Walker for a while, but that’s it. He feels like a perfect type of pickup on the buyout market if a team doesn’t try to trade for him before the deadline. The market for him at the deadline should be quite healthy, especially with his future not residing in Charlotte.
Brooklyn would be a great spot for him. He’d be very good in Miami. The Clippers might work out too, but they already have Serge Ibaka and Ivica Zubac. Boston is a natural fit, even with its trio of big men. I wouldn’t be shocked if Milwaukee tried to persuade him to back up Brook Lopez. The market for Zeller should be active after we know what happens with Drummond.
Otto Porter, forward, Chicago Bulls
The idea of Porter becoming a buyout option would have a lot of contending teams salivating. While Porter has had plenty of injury issues over the years, he’s a phenomenal shooter with great size at the forward position. You’d prefer him as a stretch four, but you can get away with playing him at the three in certain scenarios. He’s just over 40 percent from 3-point range (over 1,400 attempts) for his career. His shooting is completely deadeye, and every team fears leaving him on the scouting report. He’s also a decent playmaker at the position and can move the ball if needed on any given play. The problem is Chicago might be too in the mix for a playoff spot to want to let him go.
It would be shorter to list the teams he doesn’t make sense for. I think every option we see above would value bringing him in. He’s a good option for depth alongside Joe Harris in Brooklyn. Miami would love his shooting and size. Boston putting him next to Jayson Tatum and Jaylen Brown makes a ton of sense. Both Los Angeles teams would want him in the mix. And, of course, Milwaukee and Philadelphia would value his shooting for what they’re trying to accomplish.
Derrick Rose, point guard, Detroit Pistons
Rose was expected to be a prime trade target, especially for both Los Angeles teams at the deadline during last season. He stayed in Detroit and never got moved during the brief offseason. He’s in the final year of his deal with Detroit, and this would be the time to expect him to get traded. However, those things aren’t a lock. Nobody quite knows if the Pistons will believe they’re receiving equal value in a trade, and that could lead to a stalemate at the deadline before ultimately allowing Rose to roam free if he clears waivers.
Rose hasn’t been quite as productive as last season, but he’s not far off from it either. He’d be a great reserve guard to add to the mix or maybe even start for certain teams. Lakers and Clippers would absolutely be interested with the Clippers hoping to add depth at the guard position. They did it last season with Reggie Jackson. Rose would be a significant upgrade.
RE: ROSTER TALK: Trade/FA Ideas (Mar 25 TDL) + Salary Chart - KillerLeft - 01-27-2021
(01-27-2021, 07:45 AM)DanSchwartzman Wrote: Otto Porter, forward, Chicago Bulls
The idea of Porter becoming a buyout option would have a lot of contending teams salivating. While Porter has had plenty of injury issues over the years, he’s a phenomenal shooter with great size at the forward position. You’d prefer him as a stretch four, but you can get away with playing him at the three in certain scenarios. He’s just over 40 percent from 3-point range (over 1,400 attempts) for his career. His shooting is completely deadeye, and every team fears leaving him on the scouting report. He’s also a decent playmaker at the position and can move the ball if needed on any given play. The problem is Chicago might be too in the mix for a playoff spot to want to let him go.
This is what I've always thought about OPJ, too, but someone (can't remember who) thoroughly convinced me like a month ago that I was smoking crack, and that he was 100% solid 3.
He's the only one on the list who'd interest me in the slightest.
RE: ROSTER TALK: Trade/FA Ideas (Mar 25 TDL) + Salary Chart - ClutchDirk - 01-27-2021
Ball has also been mentioned in rumors as possibly available in trade by the Pels...
RE: ROSTER TALK: Trade/FA Ideas (Mar 25 TDL) + Salary Chart - SleepingHero - 01-27-2021
(01-27-2021, 09:29 AM)KillerLeft Wrote: He's the only one on the list who'd interest me in the slightest.
I'd love Drummond on the minimum here as a buyout candidate.
Derrick Rose is exactly who I think the Mavs need right now. He's a lethal creator and scorer still even past his prime and he's already showed he can be one of the best 6th men in the league.
RE: ROSTER TALK: Trade/FA Ideas (Mar 25 TDL) + Salary Chart - KillerLeft - 01-27-2021
(01-27-2021, 11:18 AM)SleepingHero Wrote: Derrick Rose is exactly who I think the Mavs need right now.
I agree that Rose would help the team. They could definitely use that type of player in the mix.
I'm just not interested in investing any time into a guy that old. Seems like a move that a contender should make, not Dallas. By the time Dallas is ready to actually contend, he'll be gone.
RE: ROSTER TALK: Trade/FA Ideas (Mar 25 TDL) + Salary Chart - SleepingHero - 01-27-2021
(01-27-2021, 11:20 AM)KillerLeft Wrote: I'm just not interested in investing any time into a guy that old. Seems like a move that a contender should make,
If we believe Luka is a true MVP candidate (I do), and the Mavs have found a good enough running mate in KP (I do), then the Mavs are true contenders already no? Flawed, but contenders.
In that sense the Mavs need to get guys like Rose to actually fix their flaws. If we're constantly trying to develop younger guys in the hope they pan out to the vets that are available the Mavs might miss their opportunity to contend anyways.
Also I think the Mavs are too young. We need more vets.
RE: ROSTER TALK: Trade/FA Ideas (Mar 25 TDL) + Salary Chart - KillerLeft - 01-27-2021
(01-27-2021, 11:25 AM)SleepingHero Wrote: If we believe Luka is a true MVP candidate (I do), and the Mavs have found a good enough running mate in KP (I do), then the Mavs are true contenders already no?
Well, it's fine if you believe they're contenders, but my opinion isn't really related to those factors.
I'm just looking around the league and seeing how much TALENT some teams have. The Mavs have lots of interesting players and most of them are still improving. I just can't envision a team built around a 21 year old beating a great team with loads of playoff experience that's built around a star or stars who are 28-36. Those teams are just in a different league.
IMO, the contenders are: LAL, LAC and BRK. Maaaaybe MIL (doubt it). I don't see how the Mavs have any chance in a 7-game series against any of those teams, so I don't consider them to be contenders. Boston should be up there, too, on talent alone, but THEY are still too young, imo, even though they have loads of playoff experience relative to the Mavs. I can see the Mavs beating Denver, Phoenix or Portland in a series, but I think those teams are all ahead of them, too.
I strongly believe that the Mavs are the one of the best teams in the league building around someone as young as Luka (2nd to Boston, probably). Please understand that I don't mean this as a criticism of the team. I enjoy this building period, personally. It's like we're waiting in line at Six Flags.
RE: ROSTER TALK: Trade/FA Ideas (Mar 25 TDL) + Salary Chart - RDB - 01-27-2021
(01-27-2021, 11:37 AM)KillerLeft Wrote: I'm just looking around the league and seeing how much TALENT some teams have.This...
I strongly believe that the Mavs are the one of the best teams in the league building around someone as young as Luka (2nd to Boston, probably).
I hope the Mavs are focused on finding the final pieces of the puzzle and not looking for temporary band-aids. We are fortunate to have one of the top players on the cheap and I would be more interested in putting together a sustainable roster than chasing short-term, long shot titles. We already have one owner in town that does that and now they are handcuffed because the bill is due for their star player.
RE: ROSTER TALK: Trade/FA Ideas (Mar 25 TDL) + Salary Chart - burekemde - 01-27-2021
(01-27-2021, 11:25 AM)SleepingHero Wrote: If we believe Luka is a true MVP candidate (I do), and the Mavs have found a good enough running mate in KP (I do), then the Mavs are true contenders already no? Flawed, but contenders.
In that sense the Mavs need to get guys like Rose to actually fix their flaws. If we're constantly trying to develop younger guys in the hope they pan out to the vets that are available the Mavs might miss their opportunity to contend anyways.
Also I think the Mavs are too young. We need more vets.
The Mavs are ready to win it this year IMO, when everyone back to full strength and team chemistry can reform. I think the team might peak, at absolutely best time, just before playoffs, the way things are going currently. For having players out, better that it happens now, and not before playoffs.
There is a tendency on this forum for a young 3rd star player. I dont necessary view it this way. No problem in getting that veteran star, such as Vucevic, to help Luka/KP getting the first title/titles, for the 1st part of this team, and when that veteran player is too old in some years, turn to another star at this point to provide that 2nd part of this team.
In that sense, with Luka/KP we have the long future, but no problems building two generation of teams around them. The idea of pairing with only young players so they follow Luka/KP all the way until they retire, is nice, but not very much realistic. Doing this over two generations of players is perhaps better, and this way you always have that presence of veteran star, to calm things down.
As we see it now, we likely have an issue in our team, it is most likely with KP IMO, but we dont know, it hypothethical. Having that veteran star, that knows how to calm things down, use experience, is crucial. We see JJ in that role, only thing is he is not that near that kind of talent as Vucevic or several other potential players. His presence on and off the court is felt, and this is really needed when you have two young stars. IMO THJ cant provide that leadership/veteran presence at all. Vucevic would be one of the ideal fits, but also Gobert and others.
RE: ROSTER TALK: Trade/FA Ideas (Mar 25 TDL) + Salary Chart - Kammrath - 01-27-2021
(01-27-2021, 12:55 PM)burekemde Wrote: The Mavs are ready to win it this year IMO
I hope you are right, but I strongly disagree with this. I don't necessarily think the Mavs are that far away, BUT it takes the most work to close that last little distance. I personally think Luka is still too immature as a player and leader to lead the Mavs to a championship. And the majority probably rests on his shoulders. As Luka goes, so will this team to a large extent.
RE: ROSTER TALK: Trade/FA Ideas (Mar 25 TDL) + Salary Chart - KillerLeft - 01-27-2021
(01-27-2021, 12:58 PM)Kammrath Wrote: I hope you are right, but I strongly disagree with this. I don't necessarily think the Mavs are that far away, BUT it takes the most work to close that last little distance. I personally think Luka is still too immature as a player and leader to lead the Mavs to a championship. And the majority probably rests on his shoulders. As Luka goes, so will this team to a large extent.
Totally, and it's not a criticism of Luka or the team, just realistic thinking (some might say pessimistic, but I don't see it that way).
I think we ALL agree that Luka is the real-deal-Holyfield, it's just a matter of WHEN it all comes together.
RE: ROSTER TALK: Trade/FA Ideas (Mar 25 TDL) + Salary Chart - HanspardsShowerVoice - 01-27-2021
I think there is too much scrutiny on Luka and too little on KP when it comes to the Mavs being a true contender. And I'm not just talking about the injuries. Even when he's healthy, he's pretty far away from being consistently a Top 25 player. He needs to either raise his 3PT% to better than 35% to reach truly elite stretch big status like KAT, or he needs to do other traditional big things like get to the free throw line and/or develop a low post game and exploit getting matched up on smaller players and make 2s at a higher level. KP having the injury excuse has shielded him from criticism for his on court game.
RE: ROSTER TALK: Trade/FA Ideas (Mar 25 TDL) + Salary Chart - haveitall - 01-27-2021
(01-27-2021, 02:14 PM)HanspardsShowerVoice Wrote: I think there is too much scrutiny on Luka and too little on KP when it comes to the Mavs being a true contender. And I'm not just talking about the injuries. Even when he's healthy, he's pretty far away from being consistently a Top 25 player. He needs to either raise his 3PT% to better than 35% to reach truly elite stretch big status like KAT, or he needs to do other traditional big things like get to the free throw line and/or develop a low post game and exploit getting matched up on smaller players and make 2s at a higher level. KP having the injury excuse has shielded him from criticism for his on court game.
KP has been very predictable. He will either take that low percentage three 1 ft behind the line with a hand in his face. He will post up or face up and shoot or will drive. When Dirk had the ball he would give a series of fakes and feel out the defense. KP makes up his mind and does something irregardless of the defense. He needs to feel out the defense. Doncic on the other hand is super dynamic, everything he does on the court is 2 moves ahead. Sometimes when I watch him and he does something I wonder why go there its crowded and 2 seconds later a lane forms and he has an easy layup.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r8dGOBwMYLU
RE: ROSTER TALK: Trade/FA Ideas (Mar 25 TDL) + Salary Chart - burekemde - 01-27-2021
(01-27-2021, 04:17 PM)haveitall Wrote: KP has been very predictable. He will either take that low percentage three 1 ft behind the line with a hand in his face. He will post up or face up and shoot or will drive. When Dirk had the ball he would give a series of fakes and feel out the defense. KP makes up his mind and does something irregardless of the defense. He needs to feel out the defense. Doncic on the other hand is super dynamic, everything he does on the court is 2 moves ahead. Sometimes when I watch him and he does something I wonder why go there its crowded and 2 seconds later a lane forms and he has an easy layup.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r8dGOBwMYLU
Great post HT. This is also the thing that has been annoying me with KP as well. And it is exactly the cause that was the issue in last game, of ball movement and the flow stalling. In 1st quarter KP had around 6 of this early clock shot attempts, all of them with defender on, and all without any sort of fakes or attempts to feel out the defense.
Its very well that you describe the cause of these actions, its actually the root of the problem, that he doesnt read the defenses, but makes up his mind very early in a play.
Have to take what defense gives, and feel out the defense. This is what Doncic is all about.
Totally agree with you on this. When his game shape/athletic ability is on the top, he can hide this lack of skillset in probing defenses and making reads, to some or even good extent. But when his athletic ability is not the best, as in this very moment, this lack of skillset in probing defenses, gets really exposed, and he becomes highly predictable. I totally agree even at his best, he is not at Dirk/Luka level, where he makes reads, and adjusts, and involves teammates. Most of the time, he is the end station of ball movement, and takes the quick shot, without making the read.
All that being said, he can be really great, and his best value is probably even greater on defense, protecting the paint. That, like the offense, only works when he is in top shape, and can make the blocks. At the moment, he comes too late for the blocks, and our paint is not well protected.
If we could trade him to get an even better young star with even better talent, I would be all in for that. Keeping him is also a good solution, as he is a great player, and has many great skills still.
With KP, I think we need that 3rd star and great depth, unlike if we had a real 2nd superstar along with Doncic, we could then live without the 3rd star player to make regular contenders.
RE: ROSTER TALK: Trade/FA Ideas (Mar 25 TDL) + Salary Chart - mavsluvr - 01-27-2021
(01-27-2021, 11:37 AM)KillerLeft Wrote: It's like we're waiting in line at Six Flags.Nice analogy.
RE: ROSTER TALK: Trade/FA Ideas (Mar 25 TDL) + Salary Chart - cow - 01-27-2021
Dirk's an all-time great, not fair to put that pressure on KP who's not even at 100% yet.