+- MavsBoard (https://www.mavsboard.com)
+-- Forum: Boards (https://www.mavsboard.com/forumdisplay.php?fid=1)
+--- Forum: Dallas Mavericks and the NBA (https://www.mavsboard.com/forumdisplay.php?fid=2)
+--- Thread: 2020-2021 ROSTER TALK: Archived (/showthread.php?tid=682)
Pages:
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
26
27
28
29
30
31
32
33
34
35
36
37
38
39
40
41
42
43
44
45
46
47
48
49
50
51
52
53
54
55
56
57
58
59
60
61
62
63
64
65
66
67
68
69
70
71
72
73
74
75
76
77
78
79
80
81
82
83
84
85
86
87
88
89
90
91
92
93
94
95
96
97
98
99
100
101
102
103
104
105
106
107
108
109
110
111
112
113
114
115
116
117
118
119
120
121
122
123
124
125
126
127
128
129
130
131
132
133
134
135
136
137
138
139
140
141
142
143
144
145
146
147
148
149
150
151
152
153
154
155
156
157
158
159
160
161
162
163
164
165
166
167
168
169
170
171
172
173
174
175
176
177
178
179
180
181
182
183
184
185
186
187
188
189
190
191
192
193
194
195
196
197
198
199
200
201
202
203
204
205
206
207
208
209
210
211
212
213
214
215
216
217
218
219
220
221
222
223
224
225
226
227
228
229
230
231
232
233
234
235
236
237
238
239
240
241
242
243
244
245
246
247
248
249
250
251
252
253
254
255
256
257
258
259
260
261
262
263
264
265
266
267
268
269
270
271
272
273
274
275
276
277
278
279
280
281
282
283
284
285
286
287
288
289
290
291
292
293
294
295
296
297
298
299
300
301
302
303
304
305
306
307
308
309
310
311
312
313
314
315
316
317
318
319
320
321
322
323
324
325
326
327
328
329
330
331
332
333
334
335
336
337
338
339
340
341
342
343
344
345
346
347
348
349
350
351
352
353
354
355
356
357
358
359
360
361
362
363
364
365
366
367
368
369
370
371
372
373
374
375
376
377
378
379
380
381
382
383
384
385
386
387
388
389
390
391
392
393
394
395
396
397
398
399
400
401
402
403
404
405
406
407
408
409
410
411
412
413
414
415
416
417
418
419
420
421
422
423
424
425
426
427
428
429
430
431
432
433
434
435
436
437
438
439
440
441
442
443
444
445
446
447
448
449
450
451
452
453
454
455
456
457
458
459
460
461
462
463
464
465
466
467
468
469
470
471
472
473
474
475
476
477
478
479
480
RE: ROSTER TALK: Trade/FA Ideas (Mar 25 TDL) + Salary Chart - DanSchwartzgan - 01-16-2021
(01-15-2021, 04:58 PM)Omega_Supreme Wrote: I have somewhat changed my expectations to short term vs long term needs. My short term wants on this team are very realistic
Short Term - all have cap friendly contracts and can possibly be had. Burks and Holmes are expiring.
1. Alec Burks, one of the highest efficiency ratings in the league. We need more bench firepower and he can play all wing spots
2. George Hill, good defensive guard and great shooter.
3. Richaun Holmes, good athletic big plays just like Montrez and physical
Long Term
Aaron Gordon
Richaun Holmes
George Hill
I think Holmes is a smart choice. If you assume the plan is to play one shooting big (KP, Maxi, Johnson) with one rim running big (WCS, Powell) much of the time, then one place you can upgrade is the WCS/Powell spot. Holmes is an upgrade over either and is probably available for the MLE or less. I'm sure this will spur on some trade ideas involving Powell, but the more likely event would be walking away from WCS and signing Holmes with the MLE. Not flashy in the least. Not a secondary ball handler or 3rd star. But, improvement. At the level where I think we are, small incremental shifts are much easier to achieve than big improvements.
BTW, here is a Danny Leroux article on how thin the 2021 free agent class is:
https://theathletic.com/2324597/2021/01/16/2021-nba-free-agency-preview-chris-paul-victor-oladipo/
RE: ROSTER TALK: Trade/FA Ideas (Mar 25 TDL) + Salary Chart - Jason Terry - 01-16-2021
(01-16-2021, 11:08 AM)DanSchwartzman Wrote: I think Holmes is a smart choice. If you assume the plan is to play one shooting big (KP, Maxi, Johnson) with one rim running big (WCS, Powell) much of the time, then one place you can upgrade is the WCS/Powell spot. Holmes is an upgrade over either and is probably available for the MLE or less. I'm sure this will spur on some trade ideas involving Powell, but the more likely event would be walking away from WCS and signing Holmes with the MLE. Not flashy in the least. Not a secondary ball handler or 3rd star. But, improvement. At the level where I think we are, small incremental shifts are much easier to achieve than big improvements.This is the best argument for upgrade now that we’ve seen everyone. Maxi and KP aren’t suited for the WCS/DP role. The MLE should be able to bring in a guy like Holmes.
BTW, here is a Danny Leroux article on how thin the 2021 free agent class is:
https://theathletic.com/2324597/2021/01/16/2021-nba-free-agency-preview-chris-paul-victor-oladipo/
Andre Drummond is another guy I’m following
RE: ROSTER TALK: Trade/FA Ideas (Mar 25 TDL) + Salary Chart - bodhisattva - 01-16-2021
(01-15-2021, 04:58 PM)Omega_Supreme Wrote: Long Term
Aaron Gordon
Richaun Holmes
George Hill
Been following Holmes for past 2 years in Sacramento. I think he would be the perfect fit. Kinda hoping WCS could turn in to a player like he is. Also yes on Hill. Basically i wouldn´t mind if we swap Burke, Brunson, Powell and WCS for Holmes and Hill. Minor tweaks on paper, but i think it would have a huge impact on our performances.
RE: ROSTER TALK: Trade/FA Ideas (Mar 25 TDL) + Salary Chart - ItsGoTime - 01-17-2021
(01-15-2021, 01:18 AM)KillerLeft Wrote:Be prepared?
![[Image: source.gif]](https://media0.giphy.com/media/495uk7IeXGpoARAhvG/source.gif)
RE: ROSTER TALK: Trade/FA Ideas (Mar 25 TDL) + Salary Chart - DanSchwartzgan - 01-17-2021
(01-16-2021, 12:31 PM)Jason Terry Wrote: This is the best argument for upgrade now that we’ve seen everyone. Maxi and KP aren’t suited for the WCS/DP role. The MLE should be able to bring in a guy like Holmes.
Andre Drummond is another guy I’m following
You've been on Drummond since the off season. Have you heard something?
Andre Drummond had a field day in a 106-103 win over the Knicks on Friday, scoring a season-high 33 points (10-of-18 FGs, 13-of-19 FTs) with 23 rebounds, three assists, two steals, two blocks and two turnovers in 40 minutes.
Good grief. That’s his 43rd game with a 20/20 line as Drummond moves past Hakeem Olajuwon for the third most such games in NBA history. This was also the first 30-point, 20-rebound game for the Cavaliers since Carlos Boozer did it back in 2004. It’s going to be interesting to see how the Cavs divvy up the frontcourt minutes when Jarrett Allen is cleared next game, but GM Koby Altman said he told Drummond on Thursday that his role stays the same and that he can help Allen. While Drummond is likely to keep his job, it’s probably fair to expect at least a slight dip in workload.
RE: ROSTER TALK: Trade/FA Ideas (Mar 25 TDL) + Salary Chart - DanSchwartzgan - 01-17-2021
Jason Terry Wrote: Wrote:This is the best argument for upgrade now that we’ve seen everyone. Maxi and KP aren’t suited for the WCS/DP role. The MLE should be able to bring in a guy like Holmes.
Andre Drummond is another guy I’m following
You've been on Drummond since the off season. Have you heard something?
Andre Drummond had a field day in a 106-103 win over the Knicks on Friday, scoring a season-high 33 points (10-of-18 FGs, 13-of-19 FTs) with 23 rebounds, three assists, two steals, two blocks and two turnovers in 40 minutes.
Good grief. That’s his 43rd game with a 20/20 line as Drummond moves past Hakeem Olajuwon for the third most such games in NBA history. This was also the first 30-point, 20-rebound game for the Cavaliers since Carlos Boozer did it back in 2004. It’s going to be interesting to see how the Cavs divvy up the frontcourt minutes when Jarrett Allen is cleared next game, but GM Koby Altman said he told Drummond on Thursday that his role stays the same and that he can help Allen. While Drummond is likely to keep his job, it’s probably fair to expect at least a slight dip in workload.
___________________________________________________________________________________________
Here are some thoughts from Hollinger:
Of more interest may be Drummond, who has been having arguably his best season thus far and will be a free agent after the season. The acquisition of Allen likely makes Drummond a goner come summer, so it behooves the Cavs to get some value for him before then. Additionally, he is extension-eligible, so an acquiring team could agree to an extend-and-trade deal.
These factors also applied to Drummond a year ago, and the only substantial offer came from … Cleveland, which gave up a second, However, Drummond no longer has a $28 million player option hanging over acquiring teams, and combined with his recent play it could result in a more robust trade market this time around.
_______________________________________________________________________________________
And a little bit on his D (which is always going to be the concern when you pair a rim runner with KP...especially on the perimeter. I'm a bit dubious, but will note that he has posted some impressive Defensive Win Scores at times and Cleveland's defensive improvement (they were among the league's worst the two seasons prior to this one) is substantial:
Bickerstaff had early expectations for Drummond on defense, shutting down the paint and protecting the rim. He believes Drummond should be in the conversation for Defensive Player of the Year. As they’ve turned their focus to be a strong defensive team, Drummond is an important piece in that puzzle.
The Cavs hang their hat on the defensive end, ranking second in the league with a defensive rating of 105.0. Drummond’s presence in the paint and grabbing defensive rebounds is a major factor in their defensive success. He is averaging 11.3 defensive rebounds per game and leads the league with 15.8 total rebounds per game.
______________________________________________________________________________________________
Cleveland ate the 21/22 salary of Prince and used a TPE to take in Allen. Yes, they gave up Milwaukee's (presumably very late) first rounder in 2022 for Allen, but the financial piece that got both Indy and Houston under the tax was the big difference maker. They now sit $2mm under the tax for the current season (so don't look for them to take on extra salary in any deal.
They gave up a 2nd rounder to get Drummond the year before. So, technically, anything better than a second is a wise use of assets. It wouldn't be hard for Cleveland to create a slot to do a 2 for 1 or 3 for 2 trade, which is probably necessary in order to bring back someone making $28mm. Drummond is a Schwartz guy.
RE: ROSTER TALK: Trade/FA Ideas (Mar 25 TDL) + Salary Chart - SamStetz - 01-17-2021
(01-17-2021, 09:55 AM)DanSchwartzman Wrote: They gave up a 2nd rounder to get Drummond the year before. So, technically, anything better than a second is a wise use of assets. It wouldn't be hard for Cleveland to create a slot to do a 2 for 1 or 3 for 2 trade, which is probably necessary in order to bring back someone making $28mm. Drummond is a Schwartz guy.What kind of deal would you look for? I tried to center something around Powell and a heavily protected 2025 1st (one that essentially would become 2 seconds) but couldn’t quite put enough pieces together to match salary.
- Powell and Johnson would work, but with how well Johnson has been playing would they really trade him?
- Does Dallas still have rights to Lee, and they could S&T him for the salary needed to pair with Powell for a match? But that becomes less enticing and would require less restrictions for the pick.
RE: ROSTER TALK: Trade/FA Ideas (Mar 25 TDL) + Salary Chart - Tyler - 01-17-2021
(01-17-2021, 08:57 AM)DanSchwartzman Wrote: It’s going to be interesting to see how the Cavs divvy up the frontcourt minutes when Jarrett Allen is cleared next game, but GM Koby Altman said he told Drummond on Thursday that his role stays the same and that he can help Allen.
Which is a very reasonable statement from a GM looking to maintain a guy's trade value.
Drummond seems to be a love him or hate him kinda player, but he's one of the best FAs on the market and is extremely gettable. He's still only 27 and has the right agent. There have been rumors of Dallas interest in the past, and Drummond also reportedly is buddies with KP. And with Dallas appearing to possibly be trending towards 2-big lineups, he'd be a nice bruiser to complement KP's ranginess. I can see it.
I wonder if Cleveland would like a guy like Powell. Because the obvious deal from both a financial and roster perspective is Drummond for Powell/Johnson.
RE: ROSTER TALK: Trade/FA Ideas (Mar 25 TDL) + Salary Chart - omahen - 01-17-2021
(01-17-2021, 11:33 AM)Tyler Wrote: Drummond
Not really sure I like the idea, it will ruin all spacing. Don't mind the shaqtin a fool moment, everyone can have one. Look how Valanciunas is guarding him.
https://twitter.com/cjzero/status/1347387194298793984
RE: ROSTER TALK: Trade/FA Ideas (Mar 25 TDL) + Salary Chart - Mavs2019 - 01-17-2021
If it´s Powell and two 2nd round picks, I´d take any expiring contract back, I wouldn´t even ask who it is or care whether he stays.
RE: ROSTER TALK: Trade/FA Ideas (Mar 25 TDL) + Salary Chart - DanSchwartzgan - 01-17-2021
(01-17-2021, 11:07 AM)SamStetz Wrote: What kind of deal would you look for? I tried to center something around Powell and a heavily protected 2025 1st (one that essentially would become 2 seconds) but couldn’t quite put enough pieces together to match salary.
- Powell and Johnson would work, but with how well Johnson has been playing would they really trade him?
- Does Dallas still have rights to Lee, and they could S&T him for the salary needed to pair with Powell for a match? But that becomes less enticing and would require less restrictions for the pick.
I generally like to start with the financial and roster goals of the other team rather than seeing what I want to remove from the Dallas roster. With that said, it is hard to make sense of this without involving Johnson and probably Powell.
Next season Cleveland has about $92.5mm committed. It will cost around $20 million to retain Allen and pay their first round pick. Add the MLE to that and they are they are about $14mm under the tax. That is about how much future salary they could take on in a deal and be in a similar tax position to where they are now.
They have Allen, Love, Nance and Prince up front. They have plenty of young guards (so Green isn't probably that valuable to them) in Sexton, Garland, Okoru and Windler. Kevin Porter is a swing wing SG/SF and Cedi gets a lot of their SF minutes. I would argue that SF is their biggest need, but I don't see THJ being an answer as he'll just leave on them. Johnson's expiring deal is a must if you don't include THJ. So, before I go to the trade machine, I'm thinking Johnson, some SF help and whatever else it takes to get there.
Drummond/Cedi for Johnson/Powell/DFS works financially, but throws Dallas slightly into the LT. You probably move THJ back into the starting lineup and have a SF/SG primary rotation of THJ/JRich backed by Cedi (with Green just outside the 9 man rotation). Drummond/Willie are your rim runners and KP/Maxi are your shooting bigs. You definitely end the game with Drummond on the bench as he's a poor FT shooter (so KP/Maxi to close games). What this comes down to is whether the Drummond vs. Powell upgrade is enough to offset the DFS/Cedi downgrade. I would argue DFS would look like crap offensively in Cleveland. Cedi is already a better outside shooter with bad spacing. Cedi is a good secondary playmaker. You'd be trading Finney's D for Cedi's playmaking.
This doesn't light my world in fire, but I think I can make it make sense. The team would have to have some intel that projects significant improvement for Drummond, Cedi or both playing in the roles they would have in Dallas.
RE: ROSTER TALK: Trade/FA Ideas (Mar 25 TDL) + Salary Chart - KillerLeft - 01-17-2021
(01-17-2021, 12:16 PM)DanSchwartzman Wrote: Drummond
![[Image: zGHQb4O.gif?2]](https://i.imgur.com/zGHQb4O.gif?2)
RE: ROSTER TALK: Trade/FA Ideas (Mar 25 TDL) + Salary Chart - Kammrath - 01-17-2021
RE: Drummond
The last three years his defensive on/off have been all negative: -3.3, -11.1, -2.4.
He is not a good defender and he is NOT the reason the Cavs are playing good D.
I have zero interest in a big who hurts on the defensive end and cannot space on the offensive end.
RE: ROSTER TALK: Trade/FA Ideas (Mar 25 TDL) + Salary Chart - KillerLeft - 01-18-2021
I have officially come around on Aaron Gordon, I think.
Today he was +15 in a game his team lost by 7. I didn't watch the game, but seeing how inefficient Randle was, I have to assume that Gordon had something to do with that. Since watching him guard Luka the other night, I've been paying attention, and I have to say he's a much more versatile and effective defender than I thought.
Offensively, he's pretty awful, but Orlando is trying to use him as a point forward for some reason. Here, in the Powell role, I can see him being adequate on that end (though probably not as good as Powell was before his injury).
He's a GOOD rebounder, when he's engaged. He'd probably be the best on the team in that area.
Last but not least, he plays Isaac's position. I think he's going to be getable soon, and hopefully for less than the rumored Portland offer that Orlando turned down (stupidly, if true).
I think he's a good target for the Mavs at the 4, and will look great next to Porzingis.
RE: ROSTER TALK: Trade/FA Ideas (Mar 25 TDL) + Salary Chart - SleepingHero - 01-18-2021
(01-17-2021, 02:39 PM)Kammrath Wrote: The last three years his defensive on/off have been all negative: -3.3, -11.1, -2.4.
We should not be using single metrics to define a player in any capacity, because doing so means we're zeroing in on a specific part of a picture and we could be missing a bunch of detail. Yes Drummond's on/off numbers aren't great, but on/off is a stat rooted on team performance inherently. Drummond's teams the last 3 years have been bereft of talent, that makes it hard to win anything. Case in point, the main reason why Drummond has a negative net rating is because of his teams poor offensive rating while he's on the court. Which is my main issue when it comes to Drummond, not his defensive impact, but rather how he uses himself on offense that limits teams.
But other defensive metrics paint Drummond as a neutral at worst, to one of the best paint protectors in the league. Opponents are shooting 40.7% on Drummond at the rim, and 47% overall. That is actually at the same level as Rudy Gobert so far this season (40.1/47.2). Further, Drummond has lead the league twice in defensive win shares (18/19), was top 5 in 2016, 2017, and has been top 10 the last 2 years. To keep it going, Andre Drummond has lead the league in defensive rating twice, and has had an individual DRTG below 100 4 times (matched only by Gobert and Dwight Howard for active C's). His career DRTG is exactly 100, which among centers in the NBA is only bested by Dwight Howard, and is matched only by Rudy Gobert.
Drummond has also had a positive DBPM (which relies solely on how much better the team performs while he's on the court) in every season since 2015.
Drummond also been top 15 in the league in Block% (which is how many FGA are blocked by the player while he's on the court), for the last 4 years.
Now, after all of that, does that mean I think Andre Drummond is a top 5 defender and/or a better defender than Rudy Gobert? No. Absolutely not. I think Drummond doesn't move very well in space, despite being athletic enough to keep up on the perimeter (lookup Drummond guarding Lebron to see what I'm saying). I think his BBIQ is what really holds him back, because he's normally not in the best position, and if he was he would probably be a premier defender.
What I AM saying though is that looking at a player through a reductionist lens, boiling him down to a single stat and writing him off, is a bit poppycock. Drummond is not a defensive sieve. Far from it. He does have other issues with him though. Like his general maturity, the fact he's resigned to not be a lob threat, and that his motor isn't always there on the defensive end until near the end of the possession when it comes to rebounding.
I wouldn't mind Drummond here, but not at a 30+ mil price tag, and not if it requires multiple picks or even a first.
RE: ROSTER TALK: Trade/FA Ideas (Mar 25 TDL) + Salary Chart - SkenfromLMF - 01-18-2021
Looking at how Orlando is headed into the tank for this draft, if Dallas had a pick to offer this year it might be enough. Unless you can get a 3rd team to get involved it appears VERY difficult to find a value match after the salaries are calculated.
I don't see Dallas being to match salaries for Gordon and a bad salary without cutting into the rotation in a way they have little to no appetite to do.
RE: ROSTER TALK: Trade/FA Ideas (Mar 25 TDL) + Salary Chart - KillerLeft - 01-18-2021
(01-18-2021, 06:41 PM)SleepingHero Wrote: Andre Drummond
![[Image: AffectionateSphericalAdamsstaghornedbeetle-small.gif]](https://thumbs.gfycat.com/AffectionateSphericalAdamsstaghornedbeetle-small.gif)
(01-18-2021, 06:43 PM)SkenfromLMF Wrote: Looking at how Orlando is headed into the tank for this draft, if Dallas had a pick to offer this year it might be enough. Unless you can get a 3rd team to get involved it appears VERY difficult to find a value match after the salaries are calculated.
I don't see Dallas being to match salaries for Gordon and a bad salary without cutting into the rotation in a way they have little to no appetite to do.
I can think of a way. Wouldn't be popular, but it's possible.
RE: ROSTER TALK: Trade/FA Ideas (Mar 25 TDL) + Salary Chart - SleepingHero - 01-18-2021
(01-18-2021, 06:47 PM)KillerLeft Wrote:
![[Image: giphy.gif]](https://media.giphy.com/media/1qRjAceZg4OPu/giphy.gif)
(01-18-2021, 06:47 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: I can think of a way. Wouldn't be popular, but it's possible.
What's this way that you are thinking, given that ORL turned down essentially 2 firsts for Gordon in the draft?
RE: ROSTER TALK: Trade/FA Ideas (Mar 25 TDL) + Salary Chart - KillerLeft - 01-18-2021
(01-18-2021, 06:49 PM)SleepingHero Wrote: What's this way that you are thinking, given that ORL turned down essentially 2 firsts for Gordon in the draft?
Well, in my post I mentioned that the price would have to come down some from the (rumored) Portland offer.
Flames coming for this, and I'm not saying I'd START with this offer, but I would way include Richardson if I had to. I am not in any way convinced that he's a difference maker here yet. He might be, but so far I see the same struggles integrating him that they had with Wright.
RE: ROSTER TALK: Trade/FA Ideas (Mar 25 TDL) + Salary Chart - SleepingHero - 01-18-2021
If I'm the Mavs I'm already talking with Houston on somehow finding a trade package for Oladipo and Tucker.