2020-2021 ROSTER TALK: Archived - Printable Version +- MavsBoard (https://www.mavsboard.com) +-- Forum: Boards (https://www.mavsboard.com/forumdisplay.php?fid=1) +--- Forum: Dallas Mavericks and the NBA (https://www.mavsboard.com/forumdisplay.php?fid=2) +--- Thread: 2020-2021 ROSTER TALK: Archived (/showthread.php?tid=682) Pages:
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
26
27
28
29
30
31
32
33
34
35
36
37
38
39
40
41
42
43
44
45
46
47
48
49
50
51
52
53
54
55
56
57
58
59
60
61
62
63
64
65
66
67
68
69
70
71
72
73
74
75
76
77
78
79
80
81
82
83
84
85
86
87
88
89
90
91
92
93
94
95
96
97
98
99
100
101
102
103
104
105
106
107
108
109
110
111
112
113
114
115
116
117
118
119
120
121
122
123
124
125
126
127
128
129
130
131
132
133
134
135
136
137
138
139
140
141
142
143
144
145
146
147
148
149
150
151
152
153
154
155
156
157
158
159
160
161
162
163
164
165
166
167
168
169
170
171
172
173
174
175
176
177
178
179
180
181
182
183
184
185
186
187
188
189
190
191
192
193
194
195
196
197
198
199
200
201
202
203
204
205
206
207
208
209
210
211
212
213
214
215
216
217
218
219
220
221
222
223
224
225
226
227
228
229
230
231
232
233
234
235
236
237
238
239
240
241
242
243
244
245
246
247
248
249
250
251
252
253
254
255
256
257
258
259
260
261
262
263
264
265
266
267
268
269
270
271
272
273
274
275
276
277
278
279
280
281
282
283
284
285
286
287
288
289
290
291
292
293
294
295
296
297
298
299
300
301
302
303
304
305
306
307
308
309
310
311
312
313
314
315
316
317
318
319
320
321
322
323
324
325
326
327
328
329
330
331
332
333
334
335
336
337
338
339
340
341
342
343
344
345
346
347
348
349
350
351
352
353
354
355
356
357
358
359
360
361
362
363
364
365
366
367
368
369
370
371
372
373
374
375
376
377
378
379
380
381
382
383
384
385
386
387
388
389
390
391
392
393
394
395
396
397
398
399
400
401
402
403
404
405
406
407
408
409
410
411
412
413
414
415
416
417
418
419
420
421
422
423
424
425
426
427
428
429
430
431
432
433
434
435
436
437
438
439
440
441
442
443
444
445
446
447
448
449
450
451
452
453
454
455
456
457
458
459
460
461
462
463
464
465
466
467
468
469
470
471
472
473
474
475
476
477
478
479
480
|
RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL w/ $22.7M-$34.4M | FA Aug 2, 5 pm | trading KP top priority? - DanSchwartzgan - 07-19-2021 (07-18-2021, 02:42 PM)VintagePejav2 Wrote: out - Kristaps Porzingis; Here are the numbers to illustrate the financial difference between this plan and doing a KP deal as an under the cap team. Under the cap, you would try to design a deal where the other team sent back as close to the $25.2mm minimum returning salary as possible in a deal for KP or $34.5mm in a deal for KP and JRich. The latter deal would add $8.7mm to cap space if we were trying to operate under the cap and sign FA's. If we are bringing back THJ as an over the cap team (that doesn't want to offer long term deals to summer FA's), then trade targets can return dramatically more salary in the current season. Instead of $34.5mm returning for KP/JRich, you can bring back $54.18mm (or $53.5mm for KP/Powell). Now, part of the return for the trade partner is the ability to lower 21/22 salary. Returning to Boston as an example, they can trade us Horford, Smart, Thompson and Grant Williams (Duffy). You can add a minor contract if you want R. Williams (also Duffy) or Nesmith (Schwartz) or want to substitute Powell for JRich. Boston saves about $10mm in these various iterations, which may be enough to retain Fournier and stay under the LT line. Dallas gets a short term answer at center with Horford partially guaranteed next year and Thompson expiring. They get a smart JRich replacement for at least a year and a promising kid. Not the best off-season, but something like this is what we may be looking at if Cuban is trying to maintain flexibility for that second star later. RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL w/ $22.7M-$34.4M | FA Aug 2, 5 pm | trading KP top priority? - TXBamanut - 07-19-2021 (07-19-2021, 08:01 AM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: Here are the numbers to illustrate the financial difference between this plan and doing a KP deal as an under the cap team. Under the cap, you would try to design a deal where the other team sent back as close to the $25.2mm minimum returning salary as possible in a deal for KP or $34.5mm in a deal for KP and JRich. The latter deal would add $8.7mm to cap space if we were trying to operate under the cap and sign FA's. They can't package Horford with other players for several months, so that that can't happen this off-season, can they? Since they just traded for him in the last couple of weeks? RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL w/ $22.7M-$34.4M | FA Aug 2, 5 pm | trading KP top priority? - omahen - 07-19-2021 (07-19-2021, 11:09 AM)TXBamanut Wrote: They can't package Horford with other players for several months, so that that can't happen this off-season, can they? I think I saw somewhere he can be aggregated from beginning of August RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL w/ $22.7M-$34.4M | FA Aug 2, 5 pm | trading KP top priority? - ItsGoTime - 07-19-2021 (07-19-2021, 11:13 AM)omahen Wrote: I think I saw somewhere he can be aggregated from beginning of AugustI thought it was said that because the trade happened this season, once this season ends (well, next season starts) he is then free game. (edit: which is beginning of August) RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL w/ $22.7M-$34.4M | FA Aug 2, 5 pm | trading KP top priority? - Mavs2021 - 07-19-2021 Boston wants to sign Beal next summer. They are not adding salary. RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL w/ $22.7M-$34.4M | FA Aug 2, 5 pm | trading KP top priority? - omahen - 07-19-2021 If we can finalize this one after we sign our FA, I would do it, why not. https://twitter.com/DallasMavsWorld/status/1417185559588614149 RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL w/ $22.7M-$34.4M | FA Aug 2, 5 pm | trading KP top priority? - cow - 07-19-2021 (07-19-2021, 03:12 PM)omahen Wrote: If we can finalize this one after we sign our FA, I would do it, why not. 21-22 18M 22-23 19M 23-24 20M (non-guaranteed) That's a no from me. RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL w/ $22.7M-$34.4M | FA Aug 2, 5 pm | trading KP top priority? - Kammrath - 07-19-2021 (07-19-2021, 03:18 PM)cow Wrote: 21-22 18M Yeah seriously.....bailing on Terry already for the 24th pick and TONS of money the next two years? Barf. RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL w/ $22.7M-$34.4M | FA Aug 2, 5 pm | trading KP top priority? - omahen - 07-19-2021 (07-19-2021, 03:18 PM)cow Wrote: 21-22 18M I didn't know you want to keep JRich. Once you are operating over the cap, money is irrelevant for everyone but Cuban. Gordon will be large expiring next season. RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL w/ $22.7M-$34.4M | FA Aug 2, 5 pm | trading KP top priority? - cow - 07-19-2021 (07-19-2021, 04:06 PM)omahen Wrote: I didn't know you want to keep JRich. Once you are operating over the cap, money is irrelevant for everyone but Cuban. Gordon will be large expiring next season. JRich hasn't opted in. If he does, I'd rather have his contract and Terry than Gordon and #24. RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL w/ $22.7M-$34.4M | FA Aug 2, 5 pm | trading KP top priority? - SleepingHero - 07-19-2021 (07-19-2021, 03:12 PM)omahen Wrote: If we can finalize this one after we sign our FA, I would do it, why not. The main reason against it is that Eric Gordon has had a long list of lingering injury concerns and could be considered washed up on a big contract. Is that worth the 24th pick in this draft? I'm not too sure. I think the Mavs could get a JRich trade done without having to take on an albatross salary in return. RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL w/ $22.7M-$34.4M | FA Aug 2, 5 pm | trading KP top priority? - omahen - 07-19-2021 (07-19-2021, 04:29 PM)SleepingHero Wrote: The main reason against it is that Eric Gordon has had a long list of lingering injury concerns and could be considered washed up on a big contract. Last two seasons he had injury troubles. Although I guess Houston didn't really need (want) him to play this tanking season. I think he would be a great scoring punch from the bench replacing THJ production. If one doesn't believe in JRich that is way more valuable, even with calculated injury risk. I rather accept Terry was a mistake and make a new shot with #24 than wait for a couple of years. Sure, there could be better offers on the table. I would also prefer Houston to take Powell instead of JRich. But if not, I would pull the trigger on this one. RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL w/ $22.7M-$34.4M | FA Aug 2, 5 pm | trading KP top priority? - mvossman - 07-19-2021 (07-19-2021, 04:06 PM)omahen Wrote: I didn't know you want to keep JRich. Once you are operating over the cap, money is irrelevant for everyone but Cuban. Gordon will be large expiring next season. May not be operating over the cap, there are other options for JRich if he opts in, and there are ramifications from tax line to hard cap line for taking on tons of salary. There are situations where that might be worth it, but don't think Gordon in the 20s would be one of them. Plus I seriously doubt this team is interested in a late first round pick unless they are trading it. RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL w/ $22.7M-$34.4M | FA Aug 2, 5 pm | trading KP top priority? - cjeter24 - 07-19-2021 (07-18-2021, 08:57 PM)mvossman Wrote: I'm not a huge fan of Dinwiddie. He is kind of a poor mans DeRozan. But he is a better off ball shooter, and not as bad a defender. His fit is more reasonable and he does have some true scoring talent. He would be disappointing as our primary target/get, but if we are engineering a trade of an opted in JRich (either as an over the cap move or after we landed a big fish with cap space) I'm not sure of a reasonable trade that makes more sense. Who would you prefer? Anyone I don't have to give an overpriced 3 year deal to. I'd rather keep Jrich for 1 year then trade for 3 years of Dinwiddie. RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL w/ $22.7M-$34.4M | FA Aug 2, 5 pm | trading KP top priority? - omahen - 07-19-2021 (07-19-2021, 04:45 PM)mvossman Wrote: May not be operating over the cap, there are other options for JRich if he opts in I didn't mean Mavs would be operating over the cap. But the trade can be executed, once Mavs use their cap space for their big summer aquisition using THJ and WCS space of some 24 mil. After that you trade JRich, so that extra salary from Gordon (in this example) doesn't reduce our cap space. RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL w/ $22.7M-$34.4M | FA Aug 2, 5 pm | trading KP top priority? - mvossman - 07-19-2021 (07-19-2021, 06:24 PM)cjeter24 Wrote: Anyone I don't have to give an overpriced 3 year deal to. This is a situation where we are already capped out, and will likely be over cap for years. The overpriced aspect is not as big a deal. JRich walks next year and it is unlikely we get anything from that. If your choice is 1 year of JRich or 3/4 years if Din without looking at cap, that seems to be an easy answer. Considering the alternative suggestions are Oubre and Gordon, Din is starting to look pretty good. I'm curious what other reasonable options there might be out there? RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL w/ $22.7M-$34.4M | FA Aug 2, 5 pm | trading KP top priority? - omahen - 07-19-2021 (07-19-2021, 07:28 PM)mvossman Wrote: I'm curious what other reasonable options there might be out there? For JRich you can hope to get an asset for taking bad contract (Gordon, Favors, Thompson, Aminu,...). You can trade him for a somehow equally good player on a bit longer contract like Ross or Nance. Nance would be one great option. He had excellent first half of the season but bad second half, so I wonder what his value is. Perhaps Mavs would need to add a smaller asset in this case. You can include him in a larger trade with additional players. You can trade him in a SnT for a free agent (THT, Din,...). These are all legit possibilities. Of course we have no idea what is available and what isn't so I don't see a lot of point in claiming "I would do this". RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL w/ $22.7M-$34.4M | FA Aug 2, 5 pm | trading KP top priority? - mvossman - 07-19-2021 (07-19-2021, 07:53 PM)omahen Wrote: For JRich you can hope to get an asset for taking bad contract (Gordon, Favors, Thompson, Aminu,...). I guess I was thinking primarily S&T options with teams over the cap who would prefer JRich to nothing. I agree the trade route has way too many possibilities and likely most of them would not be appealing. RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL w/ $22.7M-$34.4M | FA Aug 2, 5 pm | trading KP top priority? - cjeter24 - 07-19-2021 (07-19-2021, 07:28 PM)mvossman Wrote: This is a situation where we are already capped out, and will likely be over cap for years. The overpriced aspect is not as big a deal. JRich walks next year and it is unlikely we get anything from that. If your choice is 1 year of JRich or 3/4 years if Din without looking at cap, that seems to be an easy answer. It is a big deal. Just because we may not have cap space doesn't mean the cap isn't a big deal. Harder to have the full MLE, harder to get guys in SNT deals among other things. We do have to pay a few of our own guys the next few years if we keep them. RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL w/ $22.7M-$34.4M | FA Aug 2, 5 pm | trading KP top priority? - mvossman - 07-19-2021 (07-19-2021, 09:22 PM)cjeter24 Wrote: It is a big deal. Just because we may not have cap space doesn't mean the cap isn't a big deal. Harder to have the full MLE, harder to get guys in SNT deals among other things. eh, I'm getting to the point where if my options are to do nothing (something we have done way too much the last two years) or overpay a little bit for a guy with real NBA talent who we could probably move if we needed to, I lean towards pulling the trigger. I am open to other S&T suggestions, but nobody seems inclined to provide any, leading me to believe there are very limited choices beyond Dinwiddie/Oubre. |