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+--- Thread: 2020-2021 ROSTER TALK: Archived (/showthread.php?tid=682)
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RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL w/ $22.7M-$34.4M | FA Aug 2, 5 pm | trading KP top priority? - KillerLeft - 07-13-2021
(07-13-2021, 07:33 PM)cjeter24 Wrote: I'm going to bash my head thru a wall if we SNT for Dinwiddie as our big move lol.
BE PREPARED
RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL w/ $22.7M-$34.4M | FA Aug 2, 5 pm | trading KP top priority? - Kammrath - 07-13-2021
(07-13-2021, 07:21 PM)TXBamanut Wrote: he's still had a better defensive rating than Collins last season....Holmes is obviously a good rim runner and more athletic big on a lesser team, but still a worse defensive rating than KP
On/Off Ratings 2020-21....
JC: +7.2 O, -1.7 D, +5.5 Net
KP: +3.5 O, -6.9 D, -3.4 Net
RH: +6.8 O, +1.4 D, +8.2 Net
KP was by FAR the worst defender of the three this year and the worst offensive impact as well. Not even close.
RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL w/ $22.7M-$34.4M | FA Aug 2, 5 pm | trading KP top priority? - TXBamanut - 07-13-2021
(07-13-2021, 07:49 PM)Kammrath Wrote: On/Off Ratings 2020-21....
JC: +7.2 O, -1.7 D, +5.5 Net
KP: +3.5 O, -6.9 D, -3.4 Net
RH: +6.8 O, +1.4 D, +8.2 Net
KP was by FAR the worst defender of the three this year and the worst offensive impact as well. Not even close.
I notice that you bypassed the defensive ratings for whatever number proved your bias and dealt with none of the mitigating factors that are real (illustrating my point earlier about legionhoopsross and all that)...go right ahead. I still disagree with you WHOLEHEARTEDLY on this subject.
RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL w/ $22.7M-$34.4M | FA Aug 2, 5 pm | trading KP top priority? - Kammrath - 07-13-2021
(07-13-2021, 07:51 PM)TXBamanut Wrote: defensive ratings
Dude, "defensive ratings" are not reliable measures of defensive effectiveness, they are "estimates" that don't really tell you what you need to know. I NEVER, EVER use that as a reference stat.
I use Defensive On/Off....and occasionally something like the RAPTOR or LEBRON or RPM metrics.
RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL w/ $22.7M-$34.4M | FA Aug 2, 5 pm | trading KP top priority? - TXBamanut - 07-13-2021
(07-13-2021, 07:55 PM)Kammrath Wrote: Dude, "defensive ratings" are not reliable measures of defensive effectiveness, they are "estimates" that don't really tell you what you need to know. I NEVER, EVER use that as a reference stat.
I use Defensive On/Off....and occasionally something like the RAPTOR or LEBRON or RPM metrics.
Yeah, obviously it's so unreliable that the DPOY has the best rating. And the All Defensive team is pretty much the top ten rankings of DPOY...
Dude, I disagree with you. Defensive on/off isn't super reliable unless you have the same players that they are playing with/against. Last time I checked Dallas and Atl are pretty different teams and rosters....come on, man.
RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL w/ $22.7M-$34.4M | FA Aug 2, 5 pm | trading KP top priority? - Kammrath - 07-13-2021
Defensive RAPTOR...
RH: +1.9
JC: +0.9
KP: -1.5
D-LeBRON...
RH: +0.89
JC: +0.05
KP: -0.11
DRPM...
JC: +2.88
RH: +2.25
KP: +0.54
RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL w/ $22.7M-$34.4M | FA Aug 2, 5 pm | trading KP top priority? - cjeter24 - 07-13-2021
Regardless of which stat you are using... None of the 3 are particularly strong defenders. interesting that Holmes ranks highly on the offensive end.
RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL w/ $22.7M-$34.4M | FA Aug 2, 5 pm | trading KP top priority? - Kammrath - 07-13-2021
(07-13-2021, 08:00 PM)TXBamanut Wrote: Yeah, obviously it's so unreliable that the DPOY has the best rating. And the All Defensive team is pretty much the top ten rankings of DPOY...so don't run that crap at me.
Dude, read about how that number is generated. It is based on boxscore estimates. And in its very explanation it is an ESTIMATE, not an actual measurement of anything.
It is a highly unreliable number that does not highlight actual defensive effectiveness, and the makers of the number admit that there is LOTS it cannot capture or measure about D impact.
RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL w/ $22.7M-$34.4M | FA Aug 2, 5 pm | trading KP top priority? - TXBamanut - 07-13-2021
And ONCE AGAIN....different situations, different responsibilities, different defenders around them and all that....so post all the numbers you want that you cherry pick to pump your point. That's cool....it's your opinion, but I have mine and I have just as much reason to point to mine as you do to yours.
RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL w/ $22.7M-$34.4M | FA Aug 2, 5 pm | trading KP top priority? - Kammrath - 07-13-2021
I need @"KillerLeft" to chime in and say that any stat that rates KP as a good defender last year is OBVIOUSLY garbage and does not pass the simplest intuitive and observer test.
RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL w/ $22.7M-$34.4M | FA Aug 2, 5 pm | trading KP top priority? - TXBamanut - 07-13-2021
(07-13-2021, 08:08 PM)cjeter24 Wrote: Regardless of which stat you are using... None of the 3 are particularly strong defenders. interesting that Holmes ranks highly on the offensive end.
It's just whatever stat he can pull to prove his point and ignore all others. It's an opinion based thing, just like everyone else's here, no more valid or less. That's a hard pill for some to swallow.
(07-13-2021, 08:10 PM)Kammrath Wrote: I need @"KillerLeft" to chime in and say that any stat that rates KP as a good defender last year is OBVIOUSLY garbage and does not pass the simplest intuitive and observer test.
Is that your goat that is chained up and bellowing in the yard?
"Everyone come help insult Bama, because I can't handle a competing viewpoint." Whatever, man....I knew this was futile, and really predictable. Back to the movie.
RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL w/ $22.7M-$34.4M | FA Aug 2, 5 pm | trading KP top priority? - Kammrath - 07-13-2021
(07-13-2021, 08:11 PM)TXBamanut Wrote: It's just whatever stat he can pull to prove his point and ignore all others.
Shut this garbage down. I NEVER have quoted "defensive rating" ever on this site. EVER. I think it is a terrible number that tells you nothing helpful. I use the SAME numbers EVERYTIME I want to look at stuff. Stop the lies and imagined narratives.
RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL w/ $22.7M-$34.4M | FA Aug 2, 5 pm | trading KP top priority? - KillerLeft - 07-13-2021
(07-13-2021, 08:10 PM)Kammrath Wrote: I need @"KillerLeft" to chime in and say that any stat that rates KP as a good defender last year is OBVIOUSLY garbage and does not pass the simplest intuitive and observer test.
I'll chime in to say that arguing numbers with Kamm isn't a great plan.
![[Image: tenor.gif]](https://media.tenor.com/images/0ed287516320df8e6d514ebb8da3d6aa/tenor.gif)
RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL w/ $22.7M-$34.4M | FA Aug 2, 5 pm | trading KP top priority? - Jakeospikez - 07-13-2021
Checking the opponent's scoring section is decent, you can see how much worse KP was at rim protection this year compared to last pretty well here.
https://www.nba.com/stats/players/opponent-shooting/?Season=2020-21&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&CF=PLAYER_NAME*E*porzingis
RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL w/ $22.7M-$34.4M | FA Aug 2, 5 pm | trading KP top priority? - TXBamanut - 07-13-2021
(07-13-2021, 08:13 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: I'll chime in to say that arguing SOME numbers and ignoring others with Kamm isn't a great plan.
Fixed that for you.
Good evening, gents...have fun broiling my ghost.
RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL w/ $22.7M-$34.4M | FA Aug 2, 5 pm | trading KP top priority? - cjeter24 - 07-13-2021
(07-13-2021, 08:13 PM)Jakeospikez Wrote: Checking the opponent's scoring section is decent, you can see how much worse KP was at rim protection this year compared to last pretty well here.
https://www.nba.com/stats/players/opponent-shooting/?Season=2020-21&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&CF=PLAYER_NAME*E*porzingis
I was going to suggest this stat but couldn't remember what it was.
Kp had insanely good #s in this stat while in New York. Like elite #s. Curious what collins and Holmes #s are here.
And how they compared to Kp before last year.
RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL w/ $22.7M-$34.4M | FA Aug 2, 5 pm | trading KP top priority? - KillerLeft - 07-13-2021
@"TXBamanut" I'm not sure what happened to you, but you seem angry these days, and it takes like next to nothing to set you off.
I have personally avoided engaging with you on a variety of topics, which sucks, because I remember you from like the last 3 versions of this community and I always liked you. But these days you are in attack mode like 24/7. It's ok to disagree, but your stuff this past year has been scary aggressive. Kamm is basically a good dude. He's not doing his opinions "to you."
(07-13-2021, 08:14 PM)TXBamanut Wrote: Fixed that for you.
![[Image: tenor.gif]](https://media.tenor.com/images/be728eb61e7e218037e7bcda338e54ae/tenor.gif)
RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL w/ $22.7M-$34.4M | FA Aug 2, 5 pm | trading KP top priority? - Kammrath - 07-13-2021
(07-13-2021, 08:16 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: Kamm is basically a good dude
![[Image: BcEQ.gif]](https://i.gifer.com/BcEQ.gif)
RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL w/ $22.7M-$34.4M | FA Aug 2, 5 pm | trading KP top priority? - KillerLeft - 07-13-2021
(07-13-2021, 08:27 PM)Kammrath Wrote:
Depends on what numbers you're referencing. Some numbers point to you being an elite dude, others seem to say you're average.
![[Image: 200w.gif?cid=ecf05e47enqs8y9ldcm26qguczh...d=200w.gif]](https://media1.giphy.com/media/35Kf7OnQCkPj2Ojtf6/200w.gif?cid=ecf05e47enqs8y9ldcm26qguczhb1j8uutvsi7n2nyeor15h&rid=200w.gif)
RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL w/ $22.7M-$34.4M | FA Aug 2, 5 pm | trading KP top priority? - cow - 07-13-2021
(07-13-2021, 08:16 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: Kamm is basically a good dude.
![[Image: tenor.gif]](https://media.tenor.com/images/80ecee3607ffa966079f34bbc463dbda/tenor.gif)