(07-07-2021, 10:17 PM)cjeter24 Wrote: I really like the idea of overpaying Conley on a 2 year deal with a team option if Richardson opts in. 
Dallas could SNT THJ and whoever else needed to make it the cap space work. 

Why the overpay? Dallas can choose to enter free agency with cap space next year or keep Conley with the option. I think Conley is a nice upgrade over THJ due to the playmaking and defense he creates and he's still a good shooter. 

Going with the over the cap route, then would allow Dallas to use the MLE to sign forward help. Batum? Maybe you can split it between multiple guys. 

You would still have Richardson, Powell, and Kleber to salary match deals depending on what you had to use for salary matching Conley. 
Also some possible SNT pieces or expiring trade scenarios with Conley. You can accept his team option and deal him with your pick at the draft next year. 

It's a nice group of non max free agents next year better and the max free agents are pretty good too. 
You would not have cap space going into free agency next year but you'd be able to create it pretty easily IMO. Everyone but KP, Luka, Josh Green and whoever you signed to a longer deals this summer would be expiring. Likely only your MLE.

(07-07-2021, 06:54 PM)Tyler Wrote: A few thoughts:

- Conley seems like a prime candidate for our big FA acquisition. He fits both a need (veteran secondary playmaker who also plays defense) and a pattern (previous big-name Mavs FA target where they finish 2nd but land him later after the contract ages). So I can totally see it.

- If operating over the cap, JRich+Maxi can get Conley to $25mm in the first year. Which seems right. So taking your trade suggestion at face value, that makes me want to make other moves first to maximize the use of our cap space.

- If Dallas lets THJ go, that leaves about $20mm in cap space. Interestingly, this is exactly what Oubre is rumored to want. So maybe there really is something going on there where Oubre's agent is publicly signaling his client's FA preference. 

- I don't think Oubre is worth $20mm. And I also don't think he's worth losing THJ for. 


So I can believe that something is going on with those two guys. But for it to make the most sense to me, one of two things would push it over the top:

1. Split the $20mm between Oubre and another player before trading for Conley. Oubre and that other player would need to be more valuable than THJ + a MLE free agent. For example, (and knowing that Maxi is traded) dividing that money between Oubre and Markkanen could be interesting. Having both on deals just over the MLE could be good options for them and good values for Dallas. Maybe they also let WCS go to free up a few more million to seal the deal.

2. Operate over the cap. Keep THJ, sign Oubre to the MLE, and trade for Conley.

Surveying the FA options, I think either outcome could be a pretty effective offseason. The most important thing is to just add talent.

(07-08-2021, 03:40 AM)Branduil Wrote: If you're dumping Kleber to get more space then you have 17 million and it makes no sense to not just re-sign THJ.

(07-08-2021, 04:04 AM)omahen Wrote: Unless you want to keep WCS, Bobi or even Reddick.

(07-07-2021, 09:02 PM)Tyler Wrote: So here's the natural follow-up to all the point guard talk -- Assuming Dallas signs a starting PG like Conley, Ball, etc, what do they do with Brunson? Keep him to always have two playmakers on the floor, or trade him before he's a FA and is looking for a larger role?

(07-08-2021, 12:27 AM)SleepingHero Wrote: What kind of logic is that?

CHI finished 11th in a top heavy east. Mavs finished 5th in a loaded west. If Ball wants to win the choice is easy.

(07-08-2021, 06:53 AM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: Keep him to always have two playmakers on the floor.  Whatever system we run will be centered around taking advantage of Luka/Conley together.  If it is good to have that starting combo attacking from all over the floor, I would think you'd want to run the same two playmaker scheme against backups.   If VP has this right, I see:

Three scoring playmakers:  Luka, Conley and Brunson
Three wing defenders:  DFS, Oubre, Green
Three bigs:  KP, Maxi, Powell

That's nine and you haven't spent the rMLE yet.  I'm not a believer in all of this talk of trading Kleber to Utah for a guy you can sign outright.  He's needed in this arrangement and there isn't a good way to replace him if you send him out. You have your Big 3 in Luka, Conley and KP.  I assume DFS will start at either the three or the four.  From there you can add Maxi for one kind of look or Oubre for another.  It will be interesting how they mix and match the lineups when Luka sits or when KP sits.

The improvement comes from Conley vs. THJ.  He is your Chris Paul.  He has the same shooting off the ball that THJ has but adds better playmaking and D.  The marginal difference is huge (and stealing him cripples a competitor).  Oubre, if it happens, is the Crowder move.  I think it will cost more than the MLE as Crowder has never averaged 18 a night.

(07-07-2021, 09:23 PM)Kammrath Wrote: RE: Oubre

The guy is clearly athletic and you can see his raw talent....BUT....

1) The dude can't shoot. Career high 35.2% from three....career 32.6% from three. Career 43.3% from the field.

2) The dude looks like a decent defender from time to time when locked in, but the reality is he does NOT help team D. In recent years he is -2.8, -1.6, +2.0 (half season in PHX), -3.8 (half season in WAS), and -3.4 in on/off D.
 
3) He also doesn't help O. In recent years he is -8.8, 0.0, +3.6 (half season in PHX), -4.8 (half season in WAS), -3.1, and -6.9 in on/off O.


He had ONE half season in PHX where he was a "winning player" and that is it. He is the consummate journeyman who has enough talent and intrigue to keep getting more tries in the NBA, but no team REALLY wants him because the reality is that he is not a good team NBA player. 

(07-08-2021, 06:53 AM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: Keep him to always have two playmakers on the floor.  Whatever system we run will be centered around taking advantage of Luka/Conley together.  If it is good to have that starting combo attacking from all over the floor, I would think you'd want to run the same two playmaker scheme against backups.   If VP has this right, I see:

Three scoring playmakers:  Luka, Conley and Brunson
Three wing defenders:  DFS, Oubre, Green
Three bigs:  KP, Maxi, Powell

That's nine and you haven't spent the rMLE yet.  I'm not a believer in all of this talk of trading Kleber to Utah for a guy you can sign outright.  He's needed in this arrangement and there isn't a good way to replace him if you send him out. You have your Big 3 in Luka, Conley and KP.  I assume DFS will start at either the three or the four.  From there you can add Maxi for one kind of look or Oubre for another.  It will be interesting how they mix and match the lineups when Luka sits or when KP sits.

The improvement comes from Conley vs. THJ.  He is your Chris Paul.  He has the same shooting off the ball that THJ has but adds better playmaking and D.  The marginal difference is huge (and stealing him cripples a competitor).  Oubre, if it happens, is the Crowder move.  I think it will cost more than the MLE as Crowder has never averaged 18 a night.

(07-08-2021, 07:48 AM)Branduil Wrote: How are you adding both Conley and Oubre while keeping Maxi? Losing THJ, JRich, and WCS only adds up to about 36 million, no?


Anyway, with THJ, if he's leaving, wouldn't it be possible to do a 3-team trade? THJ traded to the team with cap space he's chosen, Conley traded to the Mavs, big TPE to Utah.  

(07-08-2021, 06:47 AM)Branduil Wrote: So you're saying they'd choose ANY of those guys over THJ?

(07-08-2021, 08:01 AM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: It is posted in this thread from this time yesterday.  If Conley is your guy, you don't mess around.  You sign him right off the bat.  You can go two years $48 million with the room you have even if JRich opts in.  If it takes more years, fine.  I have no problem giving him a third year to correspond to KP's deal.  If it takes more money, you put it in a non-guaranteed extra year that you assume he won't play.  He did that in his last contract.

You trade match for Oubre using JRich.  JRich can go to GS or as you point out he can go to a third team and we can S&T for Oubre in the same deal.  There is a huge range of possible salaries with JRich as the outgoing.  I see the need to include Maxi in a Collins deal.  I see no reason to do so in a Conley deal.  In fact, it is counter productive to team building.

(07-08-2021, 08:09 AM)Branduil Wrote: I mean there's a difference between getting a commitment from a guy vs. actually signing the contract... in fact you can't sign right away because of the moratorium. (And as we saw disastrously for the Mavs with DAJ) So even if Conley says he's coming here, that's not the end, it's the beginning. THJ would likely find a new team during the moratorium as well and then there'd be time to work on a 3-way trade if possible. It seems to me it would certainly be better for Utah to gain a large trade exception vs. just losing Conley for nothing.

(07-08-2021, 08:26 AM)Branduil Wrote: As long as we're theorizing, it would be possible, but difficult to pull of Conley+Collins and still have the MLE+BAE. If they could do the THJ+Burke for Conley trade, they could also do Maxi+JRich+Brunson for Collins. These trades would of course decimate our bench to solidify the starters, but that's what the MLE+BAE is for. Now, in that case I could maybe see the value of Oubre as a bench scorer, if you can get him for the MLE. Add some cheap vet PG with the BAE like Avery Bradley or George Hill and you've got a nice team going.

(07-08-2021, 06:53 AM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: Three scoring playmakers:  Luka, Conley and Brunson
Three wing defenders:  DFS, Oubre, Green
Three bigs:  KP, Maxi, Powell

(07-08-2021, 04:04 AM)omahen Wrote: Unless you want to keep WCS, Bobi or even Reddick.

(07-08-2021, 07:48 AM)Branduil Wrote: How are you adding both Conley and Oubre while keeping Maxi? Losing THJ, JRich, and WCS only adds up to about 36 million, no?


Anyway, with THJ, if he's leaving, wouldn't it be possible to do a 3-team trade? THJ traded to the team with cap space he's chosen, Conley traded to the Mavs, big TPE to Utah. A small piece like Burke can be added somewhere is the money needs to add up. That lets you still work over the cap so you'd get MLE+BAE.

Personally I'm completely out on Oubre, he just seems like a more athletic JRich with a worse attitude.