(07-06-2021, 04:16 PM)Mavs2021 Wrote: True. Let´s just call all the 29 other teams and ask them for their 2021 2nd round picks and in return they get nothing, since hey not a big deal. Let´s see how many agree?

(07-06-2021, 06:09 PM)cjeter24 Wrote: Yeah but it's still what's best for Luka too. That's never going to change. Derozan will make life harder for Luka by killing spacing. 
Additionally Derozan is at the same level of KP as a scorer. Clearly not a legit 2nd star either. That's way too low of a target. I don't think they are going to sacrifice cap space for a guy like Derozan. If the Mavs decide they want another guard forward type, I think Powell is that guy in free agency. He's such a better fit skill wise and likely cheaper. 

I don't think the Mavs are signing anyone this summer with cap space tho personally. I think we are an over the cap team.

(07-06-2021, 06:09 PM)cjeter24 Wrote: Yeah but it's still what's best for Luka too. That's never going to change. Derozan will make life harder for Luka by killing spacing. 
Additionally Derozan is at the same level of KP as a scorer. Clearly not a legit 2nd star either. That's way too low of a target. I don't think they are going to sacrifice cap space for a guy like Derozan. If the Mavs decide they want another guard forward type, I think Powell is that guy in free agency. He's such a better fit skill wise and likely cheaper. 

I don't think the Mavs are signing anyone this summer with cap space tho personally. I think we are an over the cap team.

(07-06-2021, 08:45 PM)StepBackJay Wrote: People are criminally underrating DeRozan as an offensive stud. The way people talk about DeRozan you would think he's terrible. I wonder how much overlap there is btwn the DMR sucks and kills spacing crowd and the "we have to play Josh Green" crowd? I have a feeling there's an overlap because they are both delusional.

DMR is a stud and teams would have their hands full with Luka, DMR and KP out there. That is a big 3 whether you want to call it flawed or not its at least 3 very offensively talented players.

Count me in the camp that is pro-DMR if you can get him. I am also okay if Mavs sign good role guys with low risk and high floors (Batum, Jackson, types) that have demonstrated they can help you in the playoffs.

(07-06-2021, 08:45 PM)StepBackJay Wrote: People are criminally underrating DeRozan as an offensive stud. The way people talk about DeRozan you would think he's terrible. I wonder how much overlap there is btwn the DMR sucks and kills spacing crowd and the "we have to play Josh Green" crowd? I have a feeling there's an overlap because they are both delusional.

DMR is a stud and teams would have their hands full with Luka, DMR and KP out there. That is a big 3 whether you want to call it flawed or not its at least 3 very offensively talented players.

Count me in the camp that is pro-DMR if you can get him. I am also okay if Mavs sign good role guys with low risk and high floors (Batum, Jackson, types) that have demonstrated they can help you in the playoffs.

(07-06-2021, 08:54 PM)mvossman Wrote: I'm not a fan of DeRozan for defensive reasons, but he fits the description of second scorer well, and better than Powell.  He can get buckets on his own as well as getting them for others and scores over 20 points a game.  His spacing issues are probably a little overblown as well.  As a purely offensive player, I doubt they can reach any higher other than Kawhi.

I think the FO (as well as most fans) would consider it an epic failure to operate over the cap with a couple of minor additions.  Unless you are suggesting they make a big free agent signing as S&T, I think everything they have said and done points to them going after big fish (like usual).

(07-06-2021, 10:52 PM)cjeter24 Wrote: so how is Derozan a stud at 21 ppg and he doesn't play defense but KP at 20 ppg who doesn't play defense sucks and is a complete albatross of a contract?  

(07-06-2021, 10:52 PM)cjeter24 Wrote: so how is Derozan a stud at 21 ppg and he doesn't play defense but KP at 20 ppg who doesn't play defense sucks and is a complete albatross of a contract? 
It's the same caliber of player. Except Derozan can't shoot which creates all sorts of issues for you offensively. 

Derozan is mediocre and always has been. The stats back it up. We've had this argument over on the discord so I'm not going to start it up again lol. 

KP, THJ, and Luka is a 3 of very talented offensive players. Most of the time offense wasn't the problem. Defense got killed with those 3. Add in Derozan you got the same problems but you have less shooting. 

Going after DMR is just going after big names regardless of fit... Reminds me of the time when the Kings were like lets trade a couple of 1sts to clear cap space so we can sign Rondo to a big money deal lol.

(07-06-2021, 11:49 PM)cow Wrote: People undervalue DDR because stat heads decided dunks and threes are the NBA.  CP3 and Booker take a lot of mid range jumpers.  Booker doesn't play a lot of defense.  Look at who is in the finals.  

That's not me endorsing the Mavs chasing DDR and I'm not disrespecting analytics, but they should be used a tool in the toolbox and not the end all, be all.

(07-06-2021, 10:48 AM)F Gump Wrote: Yeah, I think the Mavs stayed in the same place as always.

Personally, I figure the Mavs will never be very good at negotiating as long as Cuban wants to put himself front and center in the negotiating process. He thinks he's a great deal-maker and he thinks he knows how to attract deals; but he just doesn't have the people skills to understand the sales dance, and how to navigate it. For example, if he had ANY feel, he'd know the decision-maker NEVER can be up front, and his team would NEVER let the other side go around the front man to get his bottom line. But he doesn't get it -- and he has talked to media about how hard it is to do deals, because the other side always has to ask someone for permission, then they come back and ask for a bit more - never understanding that that's how the expert sales game is played.

Anyone who watches Shark Tank with any regularity sees his ability to land deals comes from having the deepest pockets where he can money whip any deal and overpay. Not from skilled negotiating. Just like how the Mavs have been operating, interestingly (and not surprisingly) - when the Mavs overpay they get the deal. Otherwise, not so much.

(07-07-2021, 05:27 AM)Branduil Wrote: People aren't doubting DDR can score, he can. But there are two major issues which would be amplified with the Mavs:


1. What happens during the 90% of the time when Luka has the ball? If DDR is standing on the perimeter his man will ignore him and come double Luka. If DDR goes inside then he'll be crowding the lane if Luka tries to drive. You can't compare him to Booker or CP3 because even though they're good mid-range shooters, they can ALSO hit threes.

2. DDR is one of the worst defenders in the league. He would compound our already serious issues on that end, we'd be playing 2 guys who can't guard anyone on the perimeter, and Luka isn't great there either.

There are better options who are better fits out there.

(07-07-2021, 05:27 AM)Branduil Wrote: 1. What happens during the 90% of the time when Luka has the ball? If DDR is standing on the perimeter his man will ignore him and come double Luka. If DDR goes inside then he'll be crowding the lane if Luka tries to drive. You can't compare him to Booker or CP3 because even though they're good mid-range shooters, they can ALSO hit threes.

2. DDR is one of the worst defenders in the league. He would compound our already serious issues on that end, we'd be playing 2 guys who can't guard anyone on the perimeter, and Luka isn't great there either.

There are better options who are better fits out there.

(07-07-2021, 07:03 AM)Razzmatazz_Hopskidillydoo Wrote: 1. If the only play the Mavs can come up with DDR is for him to stand on the perimeter, then Kidd and the rest of the coaching staff shouldn't have a job in 2 weeks time. The Mavs are composed of limited players who can't create, can't dribble, can't iso, so the point of attack has always been Luka. You do not treat DDR the same way with or without Luka on the floor. As for doubling Luka, if you leave DDR open, he does not have to just take a 3 as majority of the Mavs would just do. Double Luka specially up beyond the 3 point area and that will result on a 4 on 3, and DDR just knows how to take advantage of that given his size, quickness and playmaking skills. He will get to the space he wants and kill it from there. And also... Luka does not have to have the ball at all times, you can see JR having a bit of that role, but because JR can't really create, the ploy hasn't worked and he was reduced to a ball handler and hands over the play to Luka. DDR does not have to do that, he will be an automatic high level threat to defenses when he has the ball and looking for cracks in the defense. Sure it may take away the ball from Luka, but a few plays here and there where Luka does not initiate would go a long way on conserving Luka's energy. And who's to say a DDR possession will not result in a Luka 3? or Luka cut to the basket?

2. I wouldn't want DDR with KP. A Luka-DDR tandem needs to have a center who can protect the rim. That's the number 1 requirement for a Luka-DDR team to work.

(07-07-2021, 07:18 AM)omahen Wrote: THJ is not a good defender. DDR is also not a good defender, but is a much better offensive player than THJ. So this move theoretically makes Mavs better. It doesn't make us a legit contender but it would take triple A+ offseason to make Mavs a legit contender in one offseason. Sure I would like a Kawhi offseason with KP traded for PJ Washington and Hayward, but I just don't see it as realistic. So a DDR and a legit MLE level player that fits would represent a decent upgrade of this roster.

(07-07-2021, 12:45 AM)ItsGoTime Wrote: I’m not a big fan of DDR at $20M let alone $25M. I think there are less expensive ways to get play making and shooting on the team. If we could get DDR for $15-18M (maaaaaybe $20M) I would be fine with it. He’s 32 years old and hasn’t proven to be worth the big money in the playoffs.

(07-07-2021, 07:18 AM)omahen Wrote: THJ is not a good defender. DDR is also not a good defender, but is a much better offensive player than THJ. So this move theoretically makes Mavs better. It doesn't make us a legit contender but it would take triple A+ offseason to make Mavs a legit contender in one offseason. Sure I would like a Kawhi offseason with KP traded for PJ Washington and Hayward, but I just don't see it as realistic. So a DDR and a legit MLE level player that fits would represent a decent upgrade of this roster.

(07-07-2021, 05:53 AM)Mapka Wrote: I can see Conley or Lowry. And I can see Dinwiddie as a fourth best option.

Who else would you want?