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2020-2021 ROSTER TALK: Archived - Printable Version

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RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL with $22.7M - $34.4M in capspace | FA starts Aug 2, 5 pm - ItsGoTime - 07-02-2021

(07-02-2021, 01:10 PM)SleepingHero Wrote: Should the Mavs have to wait for a Kawhi decision, I don't think the talent drop off from day 1 to day 10 is all that much.
Oh man what a slippery slope that is. Teams that aren't in the Kawhi sweepstakes move on and get the next best and so on and so on. We've seen it so much. There are some Danny Green type hold outs too, but that's where most of the MLE type guys get gobbled up.

RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL with $22.7M - $34.4M in capspace | FA starts Aug 2, 5 pm - KillerLeft - 07-02-2021

(07-02-2021, 01:07 PM)Kammrath Wrote: Has he not shown himself to be deferential? If anything I would think next to Luka we would want him to be MORE assertive and take the lead in creating offense FOR Luka and others. 

Am I totally off base here?


There was a time when I was unsure whether Luka at PG was a path set in stone. At this point, other people have seldom touched the ball for two years and they're literally bringing in Jason Kidd to be the coach. I honestly feel like he's the main ball-handler here as long as he's on the roster. 

They certainly need other people who can make plays (Simmons absolutely checks that box) but imo it seems pretty clear that here, playing with Luka, anyone's PRIMARY offensive role will need to be either catch-and-shoot oriented (not Simmons), or setting screens and presenting themselves as threats afterwards by rolling or popping (Simmons has the body for this, but I wonder whether he sees himself that way). 

I think Simmons is great, but I wonder if he might roll his eyes at reading about how we envision him playing here. HE might see himself as more worthy to have the ball in his hands than Luka (I don't). 

Are you saying that you'd want Simmons to play PG, moving Luka off ball?

RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL with $22.7M - $34.4M in capspace | FA starts Aug 2, 5 pm - ItsGoTime - 07-02-2021

(07-02-2021, 12:46 PM)Kammrath Wrote: Brogdon would make the 76ers IMMEDIATE title favorites IMO. I love Simmons, but Brog's fit is SOO much better in PHI.
Agree, but realizing the title would depend on health of Embiid and Brog who haven't shown a ton of promise in that area.

RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL with $22.7M - $34.4M in capspace | FA starts Aug 2, 5 pm - SleepingHero - 07-02-2021

(07-02-2021, 01:13 PM)cow Wrote: We are doing this again?  MBT wasn't the problem.  Plan Powder wasn't the problem.  We are the problem.

What if the true problem was the MBT (I.E Donnie and RC) being brickwalls in being able to make plan powder succeed?

Donnie isn't known as a salesman. He infamously told D-Will "just trust us, we have a track record", in response to "Why should I sign in Dallas? What's the plan?" 

It's come out just how ornery it was being under RC. Certainly not a selling point to diva free agents. Not commenting on RC as a coach here, but it's certainly possible (dare I say likely) that RC's mere presence turned many top FA's away from Dallas before they even had a chance to sell them a pitch in FA.

Cuban's moves this offseason signaled to me plan powder is all but dead and they're going even further down that rabbit hole.

Thankfully it's so boom or bust that you just need to hit once. Mavs getting any of Kawhi/Dame/Simmons immediately vaults them into finals favorite imo.

RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL with $22.7M - $34.4M in capspace | FA starts Aug 2, 5 pm - omahen - 07-02-2021

Interesting idea for Utah-Mavs trade. Maxi+JRich for Clarkson+Favors+#30

We would get bench insta scorer and another center (kind of only makes sense if KP goes).  

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2945371-1-offseason-trade-idea-for-every-nba-team

RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL with $22.7M - $34.4M in capspace | FA starts Aug 2, 5 pm - Tyler - 07-02-2021

(07-02-2021, 12:51 PM)Kammrath Wrote: I would personally throw the whole kitchen sink in toward acquiring Ben Simmons.


Hypothetically speaking... if a certain NBA owner wanted to go all-in on Ben Simmons, can you think of a better pair of hirings than a Nike executive who likely had a big say in his shoe deal and a coach who can personally relate to his unique skills and offensive struggles as a point guard?

RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL with $22.7M - $34.4M in capspace | FA starts Aug 2, 5 pm - Kammrath - 07-02-2021

(07-02-2021, 01:16 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: Are you saying that you'd want Simmons to play PG, moving Luka off ball?


Aw, hell no. I must have totally failed in communicating my point. 

IMO, I don't see Simmons really function as much of a PG in the half court....transition, yes, and I cool with him continuing to do that. But in the half court I see Simmons function as a playmaker, but not necessarily in a primary sense. 

I want Luka to be PG, period. But Simmons takes the burden off of Luka by being able to generate offense in the half court through various kinds of motion. I ALSO like the idea of Simmons as a screen setter and roller, and envision him playmaking off of that as well.

RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL with $22.7M - $34.4M in capspace | FA starts Aug 2, 5 pm - omahen - 07-02-2021

This one is in the same package, but I am not really sure I want to pay Terry and a SRP for Barton

https://twitter.com/Mavs_FFL/status/1411008746894004230?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1411008746894004230%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fbleacherreport.com%2Fdallas-mavericks

RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL with $22.7M - $34.4M in capspace | FA starts Aug 2, 5 pm - SleepingHero - 07-02-2021

(07-02-2021, 01:20 PM)omahen Wrote: Interesting idea for Utah-Mavs trade. Maxi+JRich for Clarkson+Favors+#30

We would get bench insta scorer and another center (kind of only makes sense if KP goes).  

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2945371-1-offseason-trade-idea-for-every-nba-team

I would do this trade every time no questions asked.

Clarkson is the bench scorer we need. Favors provides a steady vet big that can replace Powell. 30th pick is a plus.

I love Maxi and he's a great piece but Clarkson out values him alone. Favors and the 30th is a grand-slam return for JRich.

RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL with $22.7M - $34.4M in capspace | FA starts Aug 2, 5 pm - Kammrath - 07-02-2021

(07-02-2021, 01:20 PM)Tyler Wrote: Hypothetically speaking... if a certain NBA owner wanted to go all-in on Ben Simmons, can you think of a better pair of hirings than a Nike executive who likely had a big say in his shoe deal and a coach who can personally relate to his unique skills and offensive struggles as a point guard?


[Image: tenor.gif?itemid=7715402]

RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL with $22.7M - $34.4M in capspace | FA starts Aug 2, 5 pm - cow - 07-02-2021

(07-02-2021, 01:18 PM)SleepingHero Wrote: It's come out just how ornery it was being under RC. Certainly not a selling point to diva free agents. 

I've said this for as long as I've been on our multiple board systems.  People wrote it off as "friends of Rondo" being spiteful.   This certainly isn't a new revelation.

Rick, Donnie and Mark were a problem recruiting free agents certainly.  But I don't think we should be getting our hopes up for Dame (he's not leaving Portland yet) or Leonard (he's not coming back to Texas).  If we want to go back to big game fishing, we should at least keep it in the realm of reality.

I'll keep my expectations at the level of THT or Holmes.

RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL with $22.7M - $34.4M in capspace | FA starts Aug 2, 5 pm - ItsGoTime - 07-02-2021

(07-02-2021, 01:20 PM)omahen Wrote: Interesting idea for Utah-Mavs trade. Maxi+JRich for Clarkson+Favors+#30

We would get bench insta scorer and another center (kind of only makes sense if KP goes).  

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2945371-1-offseason-trade-idea-for-every-nba-team
I like it as an accessory for fit to the rest of the deals made.

RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL with $22.7M - $34.4M in capspace | FA starts Aug 2, 5 pm - cow - 07-02-2021

(07-02-2021, 01:22 PM)omahen Wrote: This one is in the same package, but I am not really sure I want to pay Terry and a SRP for Barton

https://twitter.com/Mavs_FFL/status/1411008746894004230?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1411008746894004230%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fbleacherreport.com%2Fdallas-mavericks

I love, love, love, love Will the Thrill, but given his recent injury history I'm not sure why we'd give them that much compensation.

RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL with $22.7M - $34.4M in capspace | FA starts Aug 2, 5 pm - KillerLeft - 07-02-2021

(07-02-2021, 01:21 PM)Kammrath Wrote: I want Luka to be PG, period. But Simmons takes the burden off of Luka by being able to generate offense in the half court through various kinds of motion. I ALSO like the idea of Simmons as a screen setter and roller, and envision him playmaking off of that as well.


Ok, I understand, thanks for the clarification. 

Here's what I think, that maybe you're not so worried about: Part of what has made Luka so successful with the ball over the past two seasons is the fact that he has had space to exploit. The only non-shooters they've played with him are Powell and WCS, and they're setting screens for him and creating space for Luka by rolling. 

If you tell me Simmons is willing and excited about coming here to play a role like that on offense (pretty much exclusively), I'm all about it. But, if he's coming to stand on the perimeter while the initial action happens between Luka and another player on the other side of the court, then I think that's a horrible idea in terms of fit.

RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL with $22.7M - $34.4M in capspace | FA starts Aug 2, 5 pm - ItsGoTime - 07-02-2021

(07-02-2021, 01:27 PM)cow Wrote: I love, love, love, love Will the Thrill, but given his recent injury history I'm not sure why we'd give them that much compensation.
If you triple love Will, I guess you have a higher opinion of TT than me then. I don't think TT is or will be anything special (He's at best an ok bench guard IMO). I'm glad to be wrong if he stays here or another team sees his value as more than me though!

RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL with $22.7M - $34.4M in capspace | FA starts Aug 2, 5 pm - Kammrath - 07-02-2021

(07-02-2021, 01:32 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: If you tell me Simmons is willing and excited about coming here to play a role like that on offense (pretty much exclusively), I'm all about it. But, if he's coming to stand on the perimeter while the initial action happens between Luka and another player on the other side of the court, then I think that's a horrible idea in terms of fit.


Absolutely. Luka/Simmons two man game as the primary default action. 

Do you think Simmons would prefer to stand on the perimeter than be part of the primary action?

RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL with $22.7M - $34.4M in capspace | FA starts Aug 2, 5 pm - jesusshuttlesworth82 - 07-02-2021

I like Simmons and think he's undervalued but I dont really think he's an option here at this point in his career.  We've seen how Porzingis kinda still wants to be a "feature" player.  I think Simmons would be a lot worse in that regard.  Simmons still wants to run his own team.  Maybe 5-6 years down the road if he has failed as a guy that can run his own team...he'd be willing to play the Draymond Green role.  I just dont see him sacrificing right now.

RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL with $22.7M - $34.4M in capspace | FA starts Aug 2, 5 pm - KillerLeft - 07-02-2021

(07-02-2021, 01:34 PM)Kammrath Wrote: Do you think Simmons would prefer to stand on the perimeter than be part of the primary action?


No, not at all, which is why he keeps running to the dunker's spot while Embiid is trying to work in the post (yuck). But, I do wonder whether he might think the best way forward for Philly might be just to get Embiid out of the post, allowing Simmons to play for Philly the way Luka has played here in Dallas (we've seen them play like this pretty often before Rivers got that job). 

I also don't believe Luka wants to hold the ball above the break while off-ball players run to the paint. I believe he wants to work off of screen action and drive the ball himself, so while there are times when a guy can sneak into the play along the baseline (as we've seen DFS do), I believe that a constant inclusion of that 3rd person doesn't do anything but bring more defenders right to where Luka wants to be with the ball. 

So, either Simmons is the one setting the screen, or he's standing on the perimeter as a basic, default, most frequent role. For ME to sign off (were I in charge), I'd need to KNOW Simmons sees himself in that screen-setting, rolling role and nods his head with approval. I'd need to KNOW he wouldn't spend a season pining over having the ball in his hands, RUNNING the offense for another team. If I felt good about that, I'd think they're a great fit. I just don't think we can assume it. 

I don't think Simmons can come here and play a role similar to Paul George's, for example, because he has ZERO catch-and-shoot game. The Mavs desperately need someone besides Luka who can function with the ball in his hands, like George (Simmons is even better), but that 2nd star fit STARTS with George's ability to SCORE off of Kawhi Leonard by SHOOTING. 

Acquiring the secondary playmaking guy isn't progress if it makes the primary stuff much worse. Maybe this is my lack of creativity, but the only way I can see taking the ball out Simmons' hands (as a default) being successful is if he's playing that Powell/WCS role (as a default) on offense. That means A) he has to WANT to play that role (KP doesn't seem be into it, for example, so we know some players don't) and B) EVERYONE else has to be a shooter.

RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL with $22.7M - $34.4M in capspace | FA starts Aug 2, 5 pm - Kammrath - 07-02-2021

(07-02-2021, 01:39 PM)jesusshuttlesworth82 Wrote: I like Simmons and think he's undervalued but I dont really think he's an option here at this point in his career.  We've seen how Porzingis kinda still wants to be a "feature" player.  I think Simmons would be a lot worse in that regard.  Simmons still wants to run his own team. 


Not sure what you think this looks like.

Simmons has had usage rates of 20.9% and 20.2% the last two seasons....KP in DAL has had usage rates of 27.0% and 26.5%. 

I think being paired with Luka would actually allow Ben's usage to get back to at LEAST his rookie year of 22.3% if not closer to 25%. Embiid keeps the ball from Simmons much more than Luka would IMO.

RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL with $22.7M - $34.4M in capspace | FA starts Aug 2, 5 pm - cow - 07-02-2021

(07-02-2021, 01:33 PM)ItsGoTime Wrote: If you triple love Will, I guess you have a higher opinion of TT than me then. I don't think TT is or will be anything special (He's at best an ok bench guard IMO). I'm glad to be wrong if he stays here or another team sees his value as more than me though!

I don't really have an opinion of TT at all.  I just wouldn't give up TT and another second round pick for Will Barton in that swap.  I wanted Will in Dallas before he signed his previous contract with Denver. He'd be a great sixth man.  I have concerns with how often he's injured now though.