(06-29-2021, 09:30 AM)mvossman Wrote: I have several thoughts on this:

Dame just signed a contract for 4 years.  It does not matter if he wants out.  Portland could wait 3 years (see AD) before trading him.

If Portland decides to trade him, it does not matter if he wants to be traded to Dallas.  Kawhi wanted to go to LA and only had one year left.  Toronto still traded for him, and there was question whether he would even show up.  We all know how that turned out.  Teams will give everything they have for 4 years of Dame.  Asking to go to Dallas will provide us little to no advantage.

If we really do want the 23 pick, I have a hard time believing New York does not pull that trigger for Brunson.  That is a value trade for them and they clearly like him.

Team "patient" is not the route they want to take.  But they don't have to burn every future asset either.  They just brought in a new regime specifically to attract free agents.  They have potentially 34 mil in cap, perhaps the last time they will have cap space for years due to the Luka extension.  I think the goal is to get a big name "star" free agent this year.

From my vantage point, everything points to DeRozan.  He is a big name respected "star".  He is unlikely to stay on his current team.  He does not have any huge rumors going somewhere else.  He is young enough that production may not drop off for a couple of years (especially given his style of play).  He fits Cuban's recent statements as someone that can provide Luka "help".  He has ties to Nico.  He gives the Mavs their three "stars" with Luka/DeRozan/KP.  

The real question to me is if we bring in DeRozan, how do we do it?  Do we simply sign him straight up?  In that case THJ is gone (which is probably less of a concern to the new regime).  You would have roughly the MLE in cap to spend on a desperately needed 3&D guy (maybe Green?).  Another option would be to S&T for a package that the Spurs would prefer to cap space.  Maybe JRich/Powell/Brunson?  Powell and Brunson are other guys the new regime might be more willing to let go (they also seem like Spurs kind of guys).  That trade allows you to keep THJ and spend the MLE, or have roughly 22 mil in cap space.

Another possibility is if they feel they need to move on from KP, an S&T for DeRozan could make a lot of sense.  At that point they have the cap to go get Holmes and maybe Norman Powell (who would be perfect as the floor spacing point of attack defender and might be ready to get out of the shit show in Portland).

I'm actually not a fan of DeRozan the player or the fit with Luka, but I am resigned to this being by far the most likely off season move.  I don't think that team can truly contend due to lack of defense, but they are probably more likely to advance in playoffs, and potentially more attractive to other players in the future.

(06-29-2021, 10:54 AM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: I’m really enjoying the comments made by you and Omahen today.  I thought his post was a brilliant approach to Team Patient.

I used to be a Lonzo guy, but started to sour when I heard a podcast describe his aversion to contact.  He doesn’t score at the rim unless on the break and he doesn’t draw fouls.  In a playoff series, he’s a worse shooting Hardaway with better passing and D.

I have issues with DeRozan also, but watching the amount of contact the ref’s just let slide in the playoffs, I think he needs to be the guy.  It isn’t enough to just move the ball once Luka beats the double (which DeRozan can certainly do).  You have to be able to get a shot off with a defender hanging on for dear life.  DeRozan fits that bill better than most.  His lack of a 3 pointer and poor defense are certainly a concern.  But, I suspect scoring won’t be our issue if we have Luka, KP and DeRozan on the floor.  I don’t agree that Brunson is expendable if DeRozan is signed.  If the system is that we need two creators on the floor, then I like JB against backups with either DeRozan or Luka on the floor with him.

I did like your exploration of the various ways we might go about getting DeRozan.  Really good stuff and good names also.

(06-29-2021, 12:17 PM)loki Wrote: I really want to trade KP for a playmaker and sign Holmes. But if KP is still here, I think Conley would be my preferred target. Either that or take a chance on THT.

(06-29-2021, 09:19 AM)Kammrath Wrote: I still think Green is a legit starter in this league and will be shocked if he doesn't figure it out and I love the flashes I have seen from Tyrell and Bey.

(06-29-2021, 12:52 PM)SleepingHero Wrote: Green a legit starter? You think he can be a top 150 player in the league? A tall order based on what we saw on this year alone.

I will say out of all the rookies Green has the only legit chance of getting a 2nd contract. I am excited to see what an offseason can give him.

I am curious though... what flashes have you seen from Tyrell that makes you excited? He played in 56 uninspiring garbage time minutes in 11 games, and then proceeded to have a mental breakdown of unknown cause. 

The 2020 draft was a resounding failure until proven otherwise. Especially since Saddiq Bey was right there.

(06-29-2021, 01:04 PM)Kammrath Wrote: Green has as much defensive raw talent as I have seen in a long time. I think he will be a starter based on his D alone. I also saw lots of potential in his shooting stroke and his BBIQ (quickly making the right and smart play with or without the ball). His ceiling IMO is higher than anyone not named Luka and KP on the roster. I think his ceiling is as a "third star"....not saying that is LIKELY, but a possibility. 

Tyrell showed much more quickness off the dribble and getting to rim (and craftily finishing around the rim) than I anticipated. He also was legit on D, showing flashes of taking charges and playing like JJB on that end.

I think the CEILING of all three of the drafted guys is as NBA starters....but the Mavs only need ONE of them to get there to have the draft be successful. Grabbing a starter in a draft is a win IMO, and then add the high ceilings and that is only frosting on the cake.

(06-29-2021, 01:44 PM)Tyler Wrote: New management, new rumors. 

https://ahnfiredigital.com/nba/dallas-mavericks/report-people-within-mavericks-organization-are-fans-of-kelly-oubre/

(06-29-2021, 01:44 PM)Tyler Wrote: New management, new rumors. 

https://ahnfiredigital.com/nba/dallas-mavericks/report-people-within-mavericks-organization-are-fans-of-kelly-oubre/

(06-29-2021, 01:52 PM)Okstate819 Wrote: Yea but kind of an old rumor and coming from Begley taken with a grain of salt. That being said, for the right price he could be a nice rotational piece.

(06-29-2021, 01:54 PM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: Not realistic but I am still hoping for a KP salary dump. If Harrison and Kidd are as good as we hope when it comes to recruting a fresh start with the max amount of capspace would be great.

(06-29-2021, 12:17 PM)loki Wrote: I really want to trade KP for a playmaker and sign Holmes. 

(06-29-2021, 01:44 PM)Tyler Wrote: New management, new rumors. 

https://ahnfiredigital.com/nba/dallas-mavericks/report-people-within-mavericks-organization-are-fans-of-kelly-oubre/

(06-29-2021, 02:03 PM)jesusshuttlesworth82 Wrote: Me too 

McCollum
Hayward
etc

Would be ideal offseason to get that secondary playmaker from KP trade and still have $34 million in flexibility to fill out the roster.

---

(06-29-2021, 10:54 AM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: I have issues with DeRozan also, but watching the amount of contact the ref’s just let slide in the playoffs, I think he needs to be the guy.  It isn’t enough to just move the ball once Luka beats the double (which DeRozan can certainly do).  You have to be able to get a shot off with a defender hanging on for dear life.  DeRozan fits that bill better than most.  His lack of a 3 pointer and poor defense are certainly a concern.  But, I suspect scoring won’t be our issue if we have Luka, KP and DeRozan on the floor.  I don’t agree that Brunson is expendable if DeRozan is signed.  If the system is that we need two creators on the floor, then I like JB against backups with either DeRozan or Luka on the floor with him.

(06-29-2021, 01:54 PM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: Not realistic but I am still hoping for a KP salary dump. If Harrison and Kidd are as good as we hope when it comes to recruting a fresh start with the max amount of capspace would be great.

(06-29-2021, 02:59 PM)HanspardsShowerVoice Wrote: Yeah, I think DeRozan and Brunson are really different players.    Brunson is a great finisher at the rim when he gets a step on a defender, but I think he gets neutralized in the playoffs against faster defenders who can stay in front of him plus with refs swallowing their whistles.   DeRozan does his work in the post in tightly contested defense.  And really, that's what I love about his potential fit here (offensively at least), because we've never had this kind of guy with Luka.        And if you have a smaller guard on the floor, there's no place to hide him between Luka and DeRozan.  One of them are going to take him down into the post for an easy bucket.   I see Ball as a continuation of the stagnant offense where Luka dribbles the air out of the ball while 4 guys stand around.  


This is a great breakdown of DeRozan's toolbox of post moves, and the toolbox is full.  

https://mediumlights.substack.com/p/demar-derozans-masterful-footwork

(06-29-2021, 01:54 PM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: Not realistic but I am still hoping for a KP salary dump. If Harrison and Kidd are as good as we hope when it comes to recruting a fresh start with the max amount of capspace would be great.

(06-29-2021, 03:26 PM)mvossman Wrote: THJ does not make a lot of sense with DeRozan.  I don't think you can play him with Luka/DeRozan as a starter, and he will cost too much to be coming off the bench.  It's all about 3&D in the backcourt one you land DeRozan.

(06-29-2021, 03:33 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: Ultimately, I'm still just not a fan of the Luka/DeRozan pairing, myself, though I concede that getting him would represent a major talent upgrade.