+- MavsBoard (https://www.mavsboard.com)
+-- Forum: Boards (https://www.mavsboard.com/forumdisplay.php?fid=1)
+--- Forum: Dallas Mavericks and the NBA (https://www.mavsboard.com/forumdisplay.php?fid=2)
+--- Thread: 2020-2021 ROSTER TALK: Archived (/showthread.php?tid=682)
Pages:
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
26
27
28
29
30
31
32
33
34
35
36
37
38
39
40
41
42
43
44
45
46
47
48
49
50
51
52
53
54
55
56
57
58
59
60
61
62
63
64
65
66
67
68
69
70
71
72
73
74
75
76
77
78
79
80
81
82
83
84
85
86
87
88
89
90
91
92
93
94
95
96
97
98
99
100
101
102
103
104
105
106
107
108
109
110
111
112
113
114
115
116
117
118
119
120
121
122
123
124
125
126
127
128
129
130
131
132
133
134
135
136
137
138
139
140
141
142
143
144
145
146
147
148
149
150
151
152
153
154
155
156
157
158
159
160
161
162
163
164
165
166
167
168
169
170
171
172
173
174
175
176
177
178
179
180
181
182
183
184
185
186
187
188
189
190
191
192
193
194
195
196
197
198
199
200
201
202
203
204
205
206
207
208
209
210
211
212
213
214
215
216
217
218
219
220
221
222
223
224
225
226
227
228
229
230
231
232
233
234
235
236
237
238
239
240
241
242
243
244
245
246
247
248
249
250
251
252
253
254
255
256
257
258
259
260
261
262
263
264
265
266
267
268
269
270
271
272
273
274
275
276
277
278
279
280
281
282
283
284
285
286
287
288
289
290
291
292
293
294
295
296
297
298
299
300
301
302
303
304
305
306
307
308
309
310
311
312
313
314
315
316
317
318
319
320
321
322
323
324
325
326
327
328
329
330
331
332
333
334
335
336
337
338
339
340
341
342
343
344
345
346
347
348
349
350
351
352
353
354
355
356
357
358
359
360
361
362
363
364
365
366
367
368
369
370
371
372
373
374
375
376
377
378
379
380
381
382
383
384
385
386
387
388
389
390
391
392
393
394
395
396
397
398
399
400
401
402
403
404
405
406
407
408
409
410
411
412
413
414
415
416
417
418
419
420
421
422
423
424
425
426
427
428
429
430
431
432
433
434
435
436
437
438
439
440
441
442
443
444
445
446
447
448
449
450
451
452
453
454
455
456
457
458
459
460
461
462
463
464
465
466
467
468
469
470
471
472
473
474
475
476
477
478
479
480
RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL with $22.7M - $34.4M in capspace | FA starts Aug 2, 5 pm - DanSchwartzgan - 06-26-2021
(06-26-2021, 10:53 AM)Chicagojk Wrote: I keep playing in my mind Conley vs. Derozan. I think going down the Lowry route is a bad decision. I really like his fit here but he is a little older.
Let’s say for a minute you conclude DeRozan is the right fit. No KP trade, you just create room and sign him.
Here is my question. I think Dinwiddie in 19/20 was a discount version of DeRozan. For the age difference, the contract difference (maybe $10mm?) and the cost in terms of personnel (probably THJ or some equivalent player), would you take Dinwiddie’s good scoring, poor D, good playmaking and poor three point shooting vs DeRozan’s good scoring, poor D, good playmaking and poor three point shooting.
I see creating room for Dinwiddie (either by direct trade of JRich to Brooklyn or trading him for space or opt out) as being much easier to create than doing the same for DeRozan. If you do Dinwiddie for JRich, you still have the THJ bullet and the MLE. Since JRich added basically nothing, you’d consider Dinwiddie and the MLE guy as additions.
RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL with $22.7M - $34.4M in capspace | FA starts Aug 2, 5 pm - Scott41theMavs - 06-26-2021
(06-26-2021, 01:03 PM)ClutchDirk Wrote: That would give you 2 premium ball handlers who can stagger their time and Ball can be taught by Kidd how to feed Luka in his spots so he can get his go to shots and penetration opportunities without carry the whole offensive responsibility...last 5 minutes Luka will not be worn out...
Also get me Collins to go with Ball...
Trade KP for air and you have the money to go after both. Bye-bye THJ and the full MLE if you go that route, but you might be able to pick up some nice players on tiny deals or trade some of our other, more expendable guys for good players. Brunson for Robinson?
Luka
Lonzo
DFS
Collins
Robinson
Looks like a stout starting lineup to me. To be filled out with vet min guys, rMLE, BAE (think you have that regardless of cap room use), and whatever is left after trades etc.
Note: That's a full-on pipe dream, because I don't think Ball wants to come here (although if we're the only ones willing to max him out, he probably would), and I doubt both that the Hawks would let Collins go and that he would want to leave. In any event, you're looking at three young players at $90 mil a year. Better get the supporting cast right.
RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL with $22.7M - $34.4M in capspace | FA starts Aug 2, 5 pm - Mavs03 - 06-26-2021
(06-26-2021, 01:11 PM)Scott41theMavs Wrote: Trade KP for air and you have the money to go after both. Bye-bye THJ and the full MLE if you go that route, but you might be able to pick up some nice players on tiny deals or trade some of our other, more expendable guys for good players. Brunson for Robinson?
Luka
Lonzo
DFS
Collins
Robinson
Looks like a stout starting lineup to me. To be filled out with vet min guys, rMLE, BAE (think you have that regardless of cap room use), and whatever is left after trades etc.
Note: That's a full-on pipe dream, because I don't think Ball wants to come here (although if we're the only ones willing to max him out, he probably would), and I doubt both that the Hawks would let Collins go and that he would want to leave. In any event, you're looking at three young players at $90 mil a year. Better get the supporting cast right.
I think with the addition of Kidd and the fact that the Mavs need a secondary ball handler who can play defense and hit 3s, Lonzo Ball would be a terrific addition. He fits our timeline. The question is does Lonzo want to come here. I will say having Kidd and Nico at the helm, it helps our chances not only with Lonzo but other free agents.
I'm in the camp of keeping KP. As far as trading Brunson, why not Tyler Herro? Brunson and THJ for Herro and Dragic? Dragic and THJ being a sign and trade.
Luka
Ball
DFS
Kleber
KP
All 5 guys in that lineup can hit 3s.
Bench:
Dragic
Terry
Green
Powell
MLE
The bench needs some firepower but with the MLE we can get someone of value.
RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL with $22.7M - $34.4M in capspace | FA starts Aug 2, 5 pm - SwisherPrice - 06-26-2021
Not a big fan of Dinwiddie. If we were going to give big money to a ball-handling guard who isn't a great shooter, I'd rather go get Schroder because at least he can play some defense. He wouldn't be my top choice to upgrade guard either but given the choice of two, it's a no-brainer for me
RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL with $22.7M - $34.4M in capspace | FA starts Aug 2, 5 pm - Kammrath - 06-26-2021
https://twitter.com/basketbllnews/status/1408843752542724101
RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL with $22.7M - $34.4M in capspace | FA starts Aug 2, 5 pm - omahen - 06-26-2021
This is an interesting idea. I wouldn't want anything to do with that DeAndre Jordan Clown, but otherwise good idea.
https://twitter.com/Mavs_FFL/status/1408811389372747787
RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL with $22.7M - $34.4M in capspace | FA starts Aug 2, 5 pm - Hypermav - 06-26-2021
Just so Luka shoves the old man out of the way for a rebound. Then release him.
RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL with $22.7M - $34.4M in capspace | FA starts Aug 2, 5 pm - KillerLeft - 06-26-2021
(06-26-2021, 03:03 PM)omahen Wrote: I wouldn't want anything to do with that DeAndre Jordan Clown
Agreed. Powell money, guaranteed until 2023, for a guy who literally can't play.
What's your take on Dinwiddie? Seems like he's pretty polarizing around here.
RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL with $22.7M - $34.4M in capspace | FA starts Aug 2, 5 pm - omahen - 06-26-2021
(06-26-2021, 03:11 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: What's your take on Dinwiddie? Seems like he's pretty polarizing around here.
Dan made a nice comparison - he is a poor man DeRozan. For me he is in a large second group of FA that are not stars but good players, each having their pluses and minuses. So with guys like Schroeder, Oubre, Fournier, Barton and our own THJ as examples. I would be dissapointed if he is the main offseason signing. But I can see scenarios where signing him would be positive. Although I am not really convinced BKN would be enamored with JRich in a SnT
RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL with $22.7M - $34.4M in capspace | FA starts Aug 2, 5 pm - Chicagojk - 06-26-2021
(06-26-2021, 01:07 PM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: Let’s say for a minute you conclude DeRozan is the right fit. No KP trade, you just create room and sign him.
Here is my question. I think Dinwiddie in 19/20 was a discount version of DeRozan. For the age difference, the contract difference (maybe $10mm?) and the cost in terms of personnel (probably THJ or some equivalent player), would you take Dinwiddie’s good scoring, poor D, good playmaking and poor three point shooting vs DeRozan’s good scoring, poor D, good playmaking and poor three point shooting.
I see creating room for Dinwiddie (either by direct trade of JRich to Brooklyn or trading him for space or opt out) as being much easier to create than doing the same for DeRozan. If you do Dinwiddie for JRich, you still have the THJ bullet and the MLE. Since JRich added basically nothing, you’d consider Dinwiddie and the MLE guy as additions.
Hmm...nice comparison between the two. I hadn't thought of that. To be honest, I need to do a deeper dive on Dinwiddie this summer. My initial thoughts are the Mavs need to improve their 2-4 best players on the team (On a side note, last offseason I was thinking they had to improve their 3-4 best players on the team
). I don't know if Dinwiddie improves on our 2-4 best player on a championship team. With the warts Derozan has, I still want him on the court in the last five minutes of a playoff game. Not sure I would say the same about Dinwiddie, if that makes sense.
RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL with $22.7M - $34.4M in capspace | FA starts Aug 2, 5 pm - Tyler - 06-26-2021
(06-26-2021, 03:03 PM)omahen Wrote: This is an interesting idea. I wouldn't want anything to do with that DeAndre Jordan Clown, but otherwise good idea.
https://twitter.com/Mavs_FFL/status/1408811389372747787
Meh. It's an interesting idea, but I see several problems:
1. It's not a rumor. It's a clearly a trade proposal by a Nets homer.
2. Brooklyn gets the best player in the deal and dumps the worst contract (KP is more expensive but he actually plays. DAJ has been a healthy DNP since early May).
3. Brooklyn only gives up one player of any value that they have under contract. If Dallas likes Dinwiddie they can just sign him.
4. A trade involving a '21 draft pick and a S&T doesn't make any sense timing-wise.
5. Why include Maxi and DAJ? They're not required to make the deal legal, and that's a big negative move for Dallas. That just reeks of a Brooklyn fan getting greedy.
6. With the way he's treated in the NY media, are we sure KP wants to go to Brooklyn?
If you reduce it to Dinwiddie/Harris for KP, I could maybe see it. That's two productive players for one and leaves room for other upgrades. Picks would also be great, but see #4. And even if one likes the idea, I could just as easily see Dallas signing Dinwiddie as a FA and trading KP for something better than Joe Harris.
RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL with $22.7M - $34.4M in capspace | FA starts Aug 2, 5 pm - Hypermav - 06-26-2021
If the Mavs get a FRP (let's say Brunson for example) this year, does that open up our future picks for a package with KP?
RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL with $22.7M - $34.4M in capspace | FA starts Aug 2, 5 pm - Tyler - 06-26-2021
(06-26-2021, 04:11 PM)Hypermav Wrote: If the Mavs get a FRP (let's say Brunson for example) this year, does that open up our future picks for a package with KP?
Not really. But if you get a FRP in '23 instead of '21, then you're wide open for trading future picks as soon as this draft is over.
RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL with $22.7M - $34.4M in capspace | FA starts Aug 2, 5 pm - omahen - 06-26-2021
(06-26-2021, 03:36 PM)Tyler Wrote: If you reduce it to Dinwiddie/Harris for KP, I could maybe see it. That's two productive players for one and leaves room for other upgrades. Picks would also be great, but see #4. And even if one likes the idea, I could just as easily see Dallas signing Dinwiddie as a FA and trading KP for something better than Joe Harris.
Of course it depends on how much value KP has and how solvable his situation with Mavs is. I would certainly remove Jordan. This way you switch two starters for two other starters while keeping all of cap space for PF and C. My valuation of Kleber is low. He is good for regular season but very limited in playoffs.
RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL with $22.7M - $34.4M in capspace | FA starts Aug 2, 5 pm - Omega_Supreme - 06-26-2021
(06-26-2021, 03:11 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: Agreed. Powell money, guaranteed until 2023, for a guy who literally can't play.
What's your take on Dinwiddie? Seems like he's pretty polarizing around here.
I love Dinwiddie, his 3 Point shooting worries me quite a bit but he is an aggressive guy that can score in isolation and create. Both of those skillsets are major needs.
(06-26-2021, 03:11 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: Agreed. Powell money, guaranteed until 2023, for a guy who literally can't play.
What's your take on Dinwiddie? Seems like he's pretty polarizing around here.
I love Dinwiddie, his 3 Point shooting worries me quite a bit but he is an aggressive guy that can score in isolation and create. Both of those skillsets are major needs.
RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL with $22.7M - $34.4M in capspace | FA starts Aug 2, 5 pm - cow - 06-26-2021
Dinwiddie is a big bag of meh.
RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL with $22.7M - $34.4M in capspace | FA starts Aug 2, 5 pm - HoosierDaddyKid - 06-26-2021
(06-26-2021, 03:03 PM)omahen Wrote: This is an interesting idea. I wouldn't want anything to do with that DeAndre Jordan Clown, but otherwise good idea.
https://twitter.com/Mavs_FFL/status/1408811389372747787
Brooklyn is getting raped on that deal. You think Sean Marks would agree to that? I don't.
RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL with $22.7M - $34.4M in capspace | FA starts Aug 2, 5 pm - Tyler - 06-26-2021
More Brunson noise with the Knicks. If the new front office is looking to make moves, I do think there could be some trade potential there. For example, it seems like the most direct route to get back a 1st rounder in '23.
Quote:Let’s get it out of the way: Knicks president Leon Rose loves the son of his first client, ex-Knick Rick Brunson. Rose thinks the younger Brunson is a legitimate starting, playmaking point guard. Now it’s up to Dallas’ new coach, Jason Kidd, to decide whether Brunson, a second-round pick out of Villanova, is the guy to build around and lock in long term. The Mavericks will exercise his team option for next season and can offer him an extension. If Kidd lowballs him, Brunson will decline and the Mavericks will be forced to trade him or risk losing Brunson to 2022 free agency. The Knicks have Brunson on their radar. Thibodeau is a big fan of the lefty quarterback. Rick Brunson was on all of Thibodeau’s prior coaching staffs.
https://nypost.com/2021/06/26/ben-simmons-damian-lillard-how-knicks-can-acquire-new-pg/
RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL with $22.7M - $34.4M in capspace | FA starts Aug 2, 5 pm - Kammrath - 06-26-2021
(06-26-2021, 09:07 PM)Tyler Wrote: More Brunson noise with the Knicks. If the new front office is looking to make moves, I do think there could be some trade potential there. For example, it seems like the most direct route to get back a 1st rounder in '23.
That or Mitchell Robinson....if he is healthy, he is a great big to team with Luka.
RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL with $22.7M - $34.4M in capspace | FA starts Aug 2, 5 pm - StepBackJay - 06-26-2021
(06-26-2021, 09:11 PM)Kammrath Wrote: That or Mitchell Robinson....if he is healthy, he is a great big to team with Luka.
Ya I would love Mitchell Robinson. Hard to know if the Knicks love Brunson enough to give up MR.