MavsBoard
2020-2021 ROSTER TALK: Archived - Printable Version

+- MavsBoard (https://www.mavsboard.com)
+-- Forum: Boards (https://www.mavsboard.com/forumdisplay.php?fid=1)
+--- Forum: Dallas Mavericks and the NBA (https://www.mavsboard.com/forumdisplay.php?fid=2)
+--- Thread: 2020-2021 ROSTER TALK: Archived (/showthread.php?tid=682)

Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 89 90 91 92 93 94 95 96 97 98 99 100 101 102 103 104 105 106 107 108 109 110 111 112 113 114 115 116 117 118 119 120 121 122 123 124 125 126 127 128 129 130 131 132 133 134 135 136 137 138 139 140 141 142 143 144 145 146 147 148 149 150 151 152 153 154 155 156 157 158 159 160 161 162 163 164 165 166 167 168 169 170 171 172 173 174 175 176 177 178 179 180 181 182 183 184 185 186 187 188 189 190 191 192 193 194 195 196 197 198 199 200 201 202 203 204 205 206 207 208 209 210 211 212 213 214 215 216 217 218 219 220 221 222 223 224 225 226 227 228 229 230 231 232 233 234 235 236 237 238 239 240 241 242 243 244 245 246 247 248 249 250 251 252 253 254 255 256 257 258 259 260 261 262 263 264 265 266 267 268 269 270 271 272 273 274 275 276 277 278 279 280 281 282 283 284 285 286 287 288 289 290 291 292 293 294 295 296 297 298 299 300 301 302 303 304 305 306 307 308 309 310 311 312 313 314 315 316 317 318 319 320 321 322 323 324 325 326 327 328 329 330 331 332 333 334 335 336 337 338 339 340 341 342 343 344 345 346 347 348 349 350 351 352 353 354 355 356 357 358 359 360 361 362 363 364 365 366 367 368 369 370 371 372 373 374 375 376 377 378 379 380 381 382 383 384 385 386 387 388 389 390 391 392 393 394 395 396 397 398 399 400 401 402 403 404 405 406 407 408 409 410 411 412 413 414 415 416 417 418 419 420 421 422 423 424 425 426 427 428 429 430 431 432 433 434 435 436 437 438 439 440 441 442 443 444 445 446 447 448 449 450 451 452 453 454 455 456 457 458 459 460 461 462 463 464 465 466 467 468 469 470 471 472 473 474 475 476 477 478 479 480


RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL with $22.7M - $34.4M in capspace | FA starts Aug 2, 5 pm - Halfnir - 06-25-2021

(06-25-2021, 09:54 AM)HanspardsShowerVoice Wrote: the idea that you can only have one player who handles the ball to have an effective offense like a weird thing to say.

I don't think anybody said that. The more offensive options you have, the better. 

But having a player that is only effective with the ball in his hands and that is absolutely no shooting threat on the perimeter (DeRozan) together with a high usage playmaker like Luka who's spot-up shooting qualities are currently average at best is not a good combination. Luka needs shooters around him that draw defenders to the perimeter and hit when left open to help on or double Luka (DeRozan can not do that) and at least one of them should be able to put the ball down and create plays as a second option (DeRozan can do that).


RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL with $22.7M - $34.4M in capspace | FA starts Aug 2, 5 pm - Chicagojk - 06-25-2021

(06-25-2021, 07:53 AM)omahen Wrote: After first moves it is very likely Mavs plan is to go after a star signing. I would think DeRozan is what qualifies as star. Now the question is what to do with THJ, assuming they are creative enough to get enough cap space to resign him. I guess it might be wise to go after someone more defensively oriented instead. But losing THJ shooting will hurt.

I think if Derozan is the target, then it means Hardaway will not be resigned.    It will be very difficult to free up the $, and I think a sign and trade will be difficult.   I also would think they are not a good match...especially with the salary requirements.  I agree, losing Hardaways shooting will hurt.

I think Derozan is the better player then Conley.  But Conley may be the better fit.   You even may be able to do a sign and trade for him which would allow you to re-sign Hardaway if you wish, plus have some $ left over.    I think Conley and Hardaway are the better fit too.

I just think Derozan is better, but the fit is a little more challenging.


RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL with $22.7M - $34.4M in capspace | FA starts Aug 2, 5 pm - Chicagojk - 06-25-2021

(06-25-2021, 10:30 AM)Halfnir Wrote: I don't think anybody said that. The more offensive options you have, the better. 

But having a player that is only effective with the ball in his hands and that is absolutely no shooting threat on the perimeter (DeRozan) together with a high usage playmaker like Luka who's spot-up shooting qualities are currently average at best is not a good combination. Luka needs shooters around him that draw defenders to the perimeter and hit when left open to help on or double Luka (DeRozan can not do that) and at least one of them should be able to put the ball down and create plays as a second option (DeRozan can do that).

I guess I don't understand that you just need shooters surrounding Luka.  First, I want to change our offense from being so Luka focused.   Second, the whole league knows Derozan doesn't shoot threes, but he still gets to the line around 8 times a game, lives in the paint and passes out around 6 assists a game.   I think getting the ball when Luka has all the attention and attacking the rim and either scoring or hitting another player for a wide open three would be very valuable.   I personally don't want four guys who are all just waiting for Luka to give them the ball so they can shoot a three.  I think some offensive diversity  would be beneficial.  Could you surround Luka and Derozan with three shooters and plus defenders?

Derozan is not an ideal fit and I can certainly see why others would prefer a different direction, but I think some are also not thinking of the different things he would provide that we are currently lacking.  All good debate though.


RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL with $22.7M - $34.4M in capspace | FA starts Aug 2, 5 pm - SwisherPrice - 06-25-2021

DeRozan solves the shot-creating weakness but that lack of 3-pt shooting is just too much to overlook. He is so bad, he barely even attempts them. It's unlike Kidd as a player, who was never a great statistical shooting player but he attempted a lot of them in his career so when he came here for the second stint, he found a way to improve - plus he was getting better looks with Dirk.


RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL with $22.7M - $34.4M in capspace | FA starts Aug 2, 5 pm - soog - 06-25-2021

(06-24-2021, 05:00 PM)ClutchDirk Wrote: Yes he has been super loyal more than any other star recently...

Could Portland have taken CJ off the table because they are concerned about losing Dame?

KP and Dame salaries match well.  Take back Nurkic to clear open up space for him to play, send Brunson to replace the ball handling with whatever picks you can.

anyone see this?
https://twitter.com/dame_lillard/status/1408443129976352771?s=21


RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL with $22.7M - $34.4M in capspace | FA starts Aug 2, 5 pm - HanspardsShowerVoice - 06-25-2021

(06-25-2021, 11:03 AM)SwisherPrice Wrote: DeRozan solves the shot-creating weakness but that lack of 3-pt shooting is just too much to overlook. He is so bad, he barely even attempts them.

Some of that is because the Spurs are generally dead last (or right close to dead last) in 3 point attempts for years.    If you're the leading shot creator and ball handler with a head coach and philosophy that puts emphasis on ball movement and trying to efficiently find open shots over jacking up as many 3s as possible, it's not going to lead to a ton of 3 point attempts.   And I would bet an inordinate amount of DeRozan's 3 point attempts are desperation attempts up against the shot clock.

The thing about DeRozan I like is his USG% to AST% ratio is phenomenal for a scoring ball handler the last few years.   Unlike a lot of scorers, he doesn't just dribble the air out of the ball while everyone clears out and stands around while he gets his buckets off iso plays.   He gets his buckets while getting everyone involved in the offense, and I think he can get the Mavs out the stagnant Harden ball offense we've been relegated to the last few years were Luka leads the league in dribbles/seconds per touch while 4 other guys stand around watching.


RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL with $22.7M - $34.4M in capspace | FA starts Aug 2, 5 pm - SleepingHero - 06-25-2021

(06-25-2021, 11:07 AM)soog Wrote: Could Portland have taken CJ off the table because they are concerned about losing Dame?

KP and Dame salaries match well.  Take back Nurkic to clear open up space for him to play, send Brunson to replace the ball handling with whatever picks you can.

anyone see this?
https://twitter.com/dame_lillard/status/1408443129976352771?s=21

I did not see that and wow. 

Most likely nothing but after Dame's recent instagram post and now this I'd be nervous.


RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL with $22.7M - $34.4M in capspace | FA starts Aug 2, 5 pm - ClutchDirk - 06-25-2021

(06-25-2021, 11:07 AM)soog Wrote: Could Portland have taken CJ off the table because they are concerned about losing Dame?

KP and Dame salaries match well.  Take back Nurkic to clear open up space for him to play, send Brunson to replace the ball handling with whatever picks you can.

anyone see this?
https://twitter.com/dame_lillard/status/1408443129976352771?s=21

BE PREPARED...


RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL with $22.7M - $34.4M in capspace | FA starts Aug 2, 5 pm - Jym - 06-25-2021

(06-25-2021, 11:07 AM)soog Wrote: Could Portland have taken CJ off the table because they are concerned about losing Dame?

KP and Dame salaries match well.  Take back Nurkic to clear open up space for him to play, send Brunson to replace the ball handling with whatever picks you can.

anyone see this?
https://twitter.com/dame_lillard/status/1408443129976352771?s=21



PLEASE
He's who I've desperately wanted here the past couple years. Rest of the team doesn't matter if he and Luka go into the playoffs healthy together


RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL with $22.7M - $34.4M in capspace | FA starts Aug 2, 5 pm - Scott41theMavs - 06-25-2021

Turd-for-brains "fans" on Twitter and Bleacher Report comments yapping that the last thing the Mavs need is Dame Lillard to take the ball out of Luka's hands.

No one watches the playoffs. The Clippers, Suns, and Hawks are thriving because they have multiple players that can create their own shots.


RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL with $22.7M - $34.4M in capspace | FA starts Aug 2, 5 pm - mvossman - 06-25-2021

(06-25-2021, 07:34 AM)HanspardsShowerVoice Wrote: Just a personal hunch, but I think the Mavs are going to go hard after DeRozan as a tone setter going forward for the new front office with Nico.    DeRozan is a Nike client and idolized Kobe, and while he's not a "Superstar" I think he's a legit All Star caliber player and a very respected NBA veteran, and his signing could signal to other players that Dallas is a destination under new ownership.    It also just so happens that Mark said the #1 roster need for the Mavs is another shotmaker/ball handler to take some of the offensive workload off of Luka.


https://www.poundingtherock.com/2020/9/18/21445992/demar-derozan-gets-a-spurs-themed-kobe-v-release-from-nike

Also think going after DeRozan could allow the Mavs to use Brunson as trade ammo before he hits his 2nd contract.

If DeRozan is our big get this summer, count me hugely disappointed.  We could have probably done that with Nelson.  It definitely fits the "stars" narrative, even if it completely ignores fit.

I also happen to think DeRozan is overrated.  He's a good player with the ball in his hands, but a net negative when not.  It's kind of amazing that his teams have been better with him off the court almost every year of his career.

Not sure how much it will matter that signing DeRozan will make this a destination?  Between that signing and Luka's extension coming up, I don't see much available cap space for several years.

Honestly trading out THJ for DeRozan could very well be a downgrade (due to fit).  Add the clear downgrade in coaching and its hard to see that team complete anytime soon.


RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL with $22.7M - $34.4M in capspace | FA starts Aug 2, 5 pm - StepBackJay - 06-25-2021

DMR is 100 times better than THJ


RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL with $22.7M - $34.4M in capspace | FA starts Aug 2, 5 pm - DanSchwartzgan - 06-25-2021

(06-25-2021, 12:18 PM)ClutchDirk Wrote: BE PREPARED...


For just about anything.  A few random thoughts.

Like most, I really like the Harrison move...at least conceptually.  I don't know him at all, but the "idea of Harrison" (kind of like the idea of KP), feels like there could be a lot of upside.  What other GM will have as direct a relationship with star players as Nico.  Let me repeat that.  Donnie was tight with certain agents.  Cuban probably is also.  Nico is tight with PLAYERS.

I'm keeping a page of Nike players open on one of my screens.  Now when rumors come out, I'll have to look at agent and shoe contracts.  Sorry if this bothers you as the agent thing did for some.  But, until proven wrong, I'm going to keep an eye on it and track it.  Are we going to do Nike favors like we've done agent favors in the past?  It won't shock me to see Dallas in a rumor for a player I'm certain we don't really want, only to look at the shoe contract and go "oh, that's why".  BTW, that doesn't bother me at all if it makes it more expensive for a competitor to sign that player.

This Nike thing can cut both ways.  We've all jumped on the idea of getting this Nike player or that Nike player.  What do you do with Luka's fellow Jordan Brand buddy THJ?  We sending him packing?  We want shoe contracts and prior relationships with Harrison to matter to the FA's of other teams.  Will it make it harder to say good buy to our own FA's if they are properly aligned?

Do we shoot our wad this summer?  Do we plan for powder next summer?  I have no freaking idea.  Everything we've ever assumed to be true has really changed.  Hopefully we are past this idea that the only way to get good players is to have cap room.  No, get resources and when these Nike stars decide to force their way off of other teams, you trade for them.  I've been harping on the 2023 pick for a while now, but I think getting one is VERY important to getting that true star (especially since there really isn't one available in free agency).  It is possible we spend this summer gathering assets (which can be done without negatively impacting on-court compared to where we are now), with the big move still to come.  Frankly, I hope we are aiming higher than Beal (old) and LaVine (poor D).  

I mentioned JET Terry in a post last night.  I glanced at lineups Kidd coached in Brooklyn, Milwaukee and LA and was shocked to find him as a player under Kidd in both Brooklyn and again in Milwaukee.  Didn't remember that at all.

You usually don't get a great people person who is fantastic at relationships who is also great at leadership/vision and the nuts and bolts or operating an organization.  I still don't know how duties and titles will shake out here, but it feels to me like Harrison is a stallion and you let stallion's run and support the areas that aren't their strength.  Hopefully Finley is that and we become a team that is not only good at recruiting, but good organizationally as well.  Both would be a welcome change.  BTW, it wouldn't shock me to see someone added in more of a consultant role like Rod Thorn is doing in DC or West did in multiple locations.


RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL with $22.7M - $34.4M in capspace | FA starts Aug 2, 5 pm - KillerLeft - 06-25-2021

(06-25-2021, 04:15 PM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: I'm keeping a page of Nike players open on one of my screens.  Now when rumors come out, I'll have to look at agent and shoe contracts.  Sorry if this bothers you as the agent thing did for some.  But, until proven wrong, I'm going to keep an eye on it and track it.


Love it, and I knew you'd be all over this. Doesn't bother me a bit. Every piece of insight helps!


RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL with $22.7M - $34.4M in capspace | FA starts Aug 2, 5 pm - ClutchDirk - 06-25-2021

(06-25-2021, 04:15 PM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: For just about anything.  A few random thoughts.

Like most, I really like the Harrison move...at least conceptually.  I don't know him at all, but the "idea of Harrison" (kind of like the idea of KP), feels like there could be a lot of upside.  What other GM will have as direct a relationship with star players as Nico.  Let me repeat that.  Donnie was tight with certain agents.  Cuban probably is also.  Nico is tight with PLAYERS.

I'm keeping a page of Nike players open on one of my screens.  Now when rumors come out, I'll have to look at agent and shoe contracts.  Sorry if this bothers you as the agent thing did for some.  But, until proven wrong, I'm going to keep an eye on it and track it.  Are we going to do Nike favors like we've done agent favors in the past?  It won't shock me to see Dallas in a rumor for a player I'm certain we don't really want, only to look at the shoe contract and go "oh, that's why".  BTW, that doesn't bother me at all if it makes it more expensive for a competitor to sign that player.

This Nike thing can cut both ways.  We've all jumped on the idea of getting this Nike player or that Nike player.  What do you do with Luka's fellow Jordan Brand buddy THJ?  We sending him packing?  We want shoe contracts and prior relationships with Harrison to matter to the FA's of other teams.  Will it make it harder to say good buy to our own FA's if they are properly aligned?

Do we shoot our wad this summer?  Do we plan for powder next summer?  I have no freaking idea.  Everything we've ever assumed to be true has really changed.  Hopefully we are past this idea that the only way to get good players is to have cap room.  No, get resources and when these Nike stars decide to force their way off of other teams, you trade for them.  I've been harping on the 2023 pick for a while now, but I think getting one is VERY important to getting that true star (especially since there really isn't one available in free agency).  It is possible we spend this summer gathering assets (which can be done without negatively impacting on-court compared to where we are now), with the big move still to come.  Frankly, I hope we are aiming higher than Beal (old) and LaVine (poor D).  

I mentioned JET Terry in a post last night.  I glanced at lineups Kidd coached in Brooklyn, Milwaukee and LA and was shocked to find him as a player under Kidd in both Brooklyn and again in Milwaukee.  Didn't remember that at all.

You usually don't get a great people person who is fantastic at relationships who is also great at leadership/vision and the nuts and bolts or operating an organization.  I still don't know how duties and titles will shake out here, but it feels to me like Harrison is a stallion and you let stallion's run and support the areas that aren't their strength.  Hopefully Finley is that and we become a team that is not only good at recruiting, but good organizationally as well.  Both would be a welcome change.  BTW, it wouldn't shock me to see someone added in more of a consultant role like Rod Thorn is doing in DC or West did in multiple locations.

Dan you could make a running thread or separate threads for each major rumor...I would love to read them and am very interested in the Nike angles...


RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL with $22.7M - $34.4M in capspace | FA starts Aug 2, 5 pm - KillerLeft - 06-25-2021

(06-25-2021, 04:20 PM)ClutchDirk Wrote: Dan you could make a running thread or separate threads for each major rumor...I would love to read them and am very interested in the Nike angles...


Maybe we could even use a "Nike's top clients" thread?


RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL with $22.7M - $34.4M in capspace | FA starts Aug 2, 5 pm - Tyler - 06-25-2021

More insight into what types of players Dallas is looking for this summer. Short story - a second major scorer. I imagine a guy like Sexton would at least get their attention. 

https://twitter.com/diamond83/status/1408195480425693188?s=21


RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL with $22.7M - $34.4M in capspace | FA starts Aug 2, 5 pm - ClutchDirk - 06-25-2021

(06-25-2021, 04:22 PM)Tyler Wrote: More insight into what types of players Dallas is looking for this summer. Short story - a second major scorer. I imagine a guy like Sexton would at least get their attention. 

https://twitter.com/diamond83/status/1408195480425693188?s=21

https://media.giphy.com/media/p8GJOXwSNzQPu/giphy.gif


RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL with $22.7M - $34.4M in capspace | FA starts Aug 2, 5 pm - ClutchDirk - 06-25-2021

(06-25-2021, 04:21 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: Maybe we could even use a "Nike's top clients" thread?

Good thought...


RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL with $22.7M - $34.4M in capspace | FA starts Aug 2, 5 pm - omahen - 06-25-2021

(06-25-2021, 04:22 PM)Tyler Wrote: More insight into what types of players Dallas is looking for this summer. Short story - a second major scorer. I imagine a guy like Sexton would at least get their attention. 


DeRozan