(06-09-2021, 02:42 PM)VintagePejav2 Wrote: John Collins is a fave here. Huh, okay.

(06-09-2021, 02:10 PM)StrandedOnBeauboisHill Wrote: It's quite the balancing act.  How do you add vets to fill needs/minutes on the floor without breaking up continuity?  I think the hardest part is deciding what pieces are worth investing in to achieve that continuity.  From where I'm sitting it feels like the only pieces that the FO seems to think that way about are Luka, DFS, Hardaway and maybe Brunson (although him falling out of rotation in the post season isn't a great sign).  Honestly though it feels like everyone not named Luka is on the block if there's a good offer for you point #2.

(06-09-2021, 01:03 PM)mvossman Wrote: Is that worth the max, and an asset, and ignorance of fit?

(06-09-2021, 02:54 PM)Tyler Wrote: The idea of the Knicks potentially wanting Kemba presents an interesting possible foundation for a 3-way deal. KP to Boston, Kemba to the Knicks, and a huge trade exception (plus their own ‘23 pick) to Dallas would open up lots of avenues to keep THJ and operate over the cap while chasing S&T deals for RFAs or absorbing other bigger contracts in trades. For example, with a $36mm TPE you could conceivably get Collins and Markkanen or Ball and Turner with only cheaper players and picks going out. Something to keep an eye on if Dallas starts getting creative.t

(06-09-2021, 02:14 PM)StrandedOnBeauboisHill Wrote: Watching him this postseason has been pretty eye opening just in terms of the fact that the Hawks view him as their best wing defender.  Not saying that it makes him a GOOD defender considering that roster makeup but he certainly had a lot to do with Randle being slowed down in the first series.

I look at it as Collins vs Kleber and it's looking more and more like the drop off from a defensive standpoint is less than I thought about a month ago and I think the offensive improvement is more than the defensive drop off.  Also, Collins is up and down this post season but he doesn't look as nearly afraid of this moment as Kleber has two years in a row now which is disappointing because I love Kleber.

(06-09-2021, 04:11 PM)mvossman Wrote: A couple of things:

It is at least encouraging to hear that Collins held his own on the perimeter in the playoffs.  That makes him at least a viable option next to KP defensively.  There is no question the offensive fit is perfect.

Kleber was significantly off defensively this year (just like KP) and my hope is that both were due to Injury related issues and that they will rebound next year.  Kleber struggled with Covid for a long time and also struggled with the workload of being a starter in a condensed season.  I think his defense will be better next year, but he is probably best suited to a versatile role player in the mid 20s minutes wise.

So from that standpoint, there is no question Collins is an upgrade over Maxi.  The question is long term fit.  This team needs to get significantly better defensively to have any chance of reaching contender status.  Even if KP gets back to previous rim protection levels, and Collins is only small downgrade to Maxi, we still probably need upgrade in the backcourt defense.  We also need a secondary play maker to relieve some of the pressure from Luka and keep our bench from getting killed.  But giving Collins a max contract will require us to operate under the cap with not enough left to re-sign THJ, let alone get that 2 way SG we desperately need.  From this perspective, I feel like Ball probably makes more sense as he fills more gaping holes.

(06-09-2021, 04:37 PM)StrandedOnBeauboisHill Wrote: KP for Horford/2023 OKC pick

Maxi/Brunson/2023 OKC pick and maybe our 2025 pick for Brogdon/Turner (this doesn't work out money wise but could be done in separate moves)

Sign Collins/THJ with space

Sign Batum with rMLE (no idea what his market will hold to be honest)

Sign TJ McConnell with the BAE (which to be honest I can't even remember if we have this year)

(06-09-2021, 02:53 PM)StepBackJay Wrote: I like Collins in a vacuum, I just don't like the price tag. I think we can spend that money better in other places and I imagine he will stay in Atlanta anyway.

Lonzo is a guy I would go all in on.

(06-09-2021, 04:59 PM)Branduil Wrote: See, saying you would spend Collins-type money on Lonzo is batshit to me. Lonzo can NOT score. He'd be another role player on offense waiting for Luka to pass to him for an open 3-pointer. Lonzo gets assists but he is NOT a playmaker, which is what we need.

(06-09-2021, 05:06 PM)Scott41theMavs Wrote: Brogdon or bust for me. The perfect backcourt mate for Luka. I would keep the Pacers on the phone until they put Brogdon on the table. Anything but Luka, it's yours.

(06-09-2021, 03:44 PM)StepBackJay Wrote: So I hadn't thought of that idea which is pretty interesting given how much cap space NYK has and their willingness to use it for dumps.

So Dallas would have the option of operating over the cap with a giant TE as you say or just using cap space, whichever is more advantageous. To me I still think cap space would likely be more useful.

It would suck to do a straight cap dump of KP given what was given up for him but you think have a lot of cap space to build the team you want.

(06-09-2021, 09:43 AM)Kammrath Wrote: BINGO.

I am telling y'all, JC is the next "Brogdon" in the sense of someone who was underutilized and was just waiting to break out. Many didn't want Brogdon because in his smaller role in MIL they couldn't see clearly what he was. Same with JC.

JC has always been my number one for this offseason. Get it done.

(06-09-2021, 05:16 PM)Tyler Wrote: Good point about operating under the cap. I was over-thinking it.

Assume for a moment Dallas trades KP to Boston with Kemba going to the Knicks and Dallas's own 2023 pick coming back with no other money. That's an overly light return on the surface, but it opens up a TON of cap space and puts all of our future first rounders back on the table for trades. It's like the keystone deal for entirely remaking the roster if you can get the right guys lined up.

If they then let most of their FAs go and sign THJ to a new contract starting at $20mm, Dallas would still have about $35mm in cap space even if JRich opts in. If he leaves or they help him find a new home, it could swell up to $46mm. Want both Ball and Collins? I bet you could make it happen with that kinda space. Or sign Collins and trade one of those future firsts for Turner. Do you need to trade another future first to Atlanta to seal the deal with Collins? You now have the ammo to make that choice. Or maybe you go for quantity in Ball, Turner, and Markkanen. No problem.

If you told me Dallas could trade KP for their own 1st round refund, it sounds like a lousy deal. But if you think of it as KP for 2-3 young impact starters, I think there's a lot to work with. Unlike the Knicks a few years ago when they dumped KP for powder, though, the trick is to only make the trade when you have the follow-up moves ready to go.

(06-09-2021, 04:59 PM)Branduil Wrote: See, saying you would spend Collins-type money on Lonzo is batshit to me. Lonzo can NOT score. He'd be another role player on offense waiting for Luka to pass to him for an open 3-pointer. Lonzo gets assists but he is NOT a playmaker, which is what we need.

(06-09-2021, 05:25 PM)ClutchDirk Wrote: As soon as Isaac became virtually unavailable I wanted Collins...

(06-09-2021, 07:12 PM)StepBackJay Wrote: Sorry if this was mentioned already, what is the first year salary if Mavs offer Collins a max contract? I think the max extension would have been 4/125 so I am guessing his first year RFA max would be around 30 mil?

(06-09-2021, 07:15 PM)khaled1987 Wrote: https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2020/11/nba-maximum-salaries-for-202021.html

29 if S&T, 27 if offer sheet, based on current season

(06-09-2021, 04:55 PM)StepBackJay Wrote: Maxi/Brunson for Brog/Turner is way too much incoming money. to do these other moves.

Collins/THJ for space - not enough space for this. I think THJ is going to be 15-20 and Collins turned down like 22/yr last year.