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+--- Thread: 2020-2021 ROSTER TALK: Archived (/showthread.php?tid=682)
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RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL with $22.7M - $34.4M in capspace | FA starts Aug 2, 5 pm - StepBackJay - 06-07-2021
(06-07-2021, 12:36 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: I am an admitted Smart hater, so this might be biased of me, but the above is kind of how I feel, too.
I think Smart's impact here would be very much chapter 3 of the book that starts with a Delon Wright chapter and then a Josh Richardson chapter. I foresee a lot of Smart trying to make things happen with the ball in his hands, just like he does in Boston to drive their fans crazy, and just like Richardson did here to drive most of us crazy.
Maybe he's so much better than Richardson that it wouldn't be an issue, idk. I'm just really skeptical.
Wright is a 3-4 assist guy who was just not aggressive enough in Dallas. J Rich is even worse, more like 2-3 assist. Smart was close to 6 apg and averages are more like 5. His defense is elite, 2 time all-NBA, great toughness. Makes a lot of plays that don't show up on the stat sheet. I just like having big-time competitors like. Luka, Smart, DFS all in the same lineup.
He will do some chucking on you but I think you will have to live with some of that and hope that Rick coaches it out of him. That being said Mavs need some aggressiveness in that backcourt. I also think Smart setting the tone on defense is going to be a big-time gamechanger.
Mavs can talk all they want in a 2 week preseason ab how they are going to "focus" on defense but of course it doesn't matter if they don't have the personnel. You get Smart, Batum, Mitchell Robinson then you have actual good to great defenders in the lineup around Luka.
RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL with $22.7M - $34.4M in capspace | FA starts Aug 2, 5 pm - KillerLeft - 06-07-2021
(06-07-2021, 12:43 PM)StrandedOnBeauboisHill Wrote: We're basically to the point where you need someone who has been a proven #1 PG on depth charts in the past.
Ok, so yeah, I'm with your entire post. However, about the specific statement above:
1) Is an actual point guard going to want to play here without the ball in his hands at LEAST 40-60% of the time?
2) Is Luka ready/willing to give the ball up for anything close to those percentages? Does he even HAVE an off-ball game? I mean, I assume he is capable of playing off-ball or at least learning how, but we really, truly haven't seen much of that since he came here.
RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL with $22.7M - $34.4M in capspace | FA starts Aug 2, 5 pm - SleepingHero - 06-07-2021
(06-07-2021, 12:32 PM)StepBackJay Wrote: He is streaky as a shooter. His shooting fell off but part of that is his shot selection. I like his assists numbers. I think his elite all-NBA defense, playmaking and toughness outweigh the outside shot. I'd like to know his catch and shoot numbers vs his overall 3%. My theory is that they are better. I suspect the shots he has been taking are more like THJ sorta open shots vs Maxi, DFS no one in 6 feet of you catch and shoot shots.
Saying his shooting fell off is as nice of a spin as you can possibily put.
Smarts career catch and shoot 3 numbers
20-21: 32.5%
19-20: 31.4%
18-19: 38.7 (posted career highs across the board by far this year)
17-18: 31.3%
16-17: 31.8%
15-16: 22.2%
14-15: 35.3%
He's a terrible shooter. Awful. In fact Smart is one of the worst shooters in NBA history. His career splits are 37.6/32.0/77.7
Even worse is that while he's awful at shooting, he thinks he's a great shooter. https://boston.cbslocal.com/2021/01/27/marcus-smart-celtics-doesnt-care-about-critics-shoot-too-much-nba/
He will be Wes Matthews 2.0 with even worse shooting. I don't want to touch Smart with 10ft pole.
RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL with $22.7M - $34.4M in capspace | FA starts Aug 2, 5 pm - DallasBasketball - 06-07-2021
I think Delon was only moved as a precursor to cap space desired for this summer that is proving to be immaterial. When he was signed he never lived up to expectations, nor did he turn out to be a good fit, but IMO we are once again in the exact same situation with Richardson.. In that our view of the player is negative from our contextual point of view, but the player is still a good player and valuable over all in this league. Depending on what happens with Richardson having him play a role on this team next season isn’t such a bad thing.
RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL with $22.7M - $34.4M in capspace | FA starts Aug 2, 5 pm - StepBackJay - 06-07-2021
(06-07-2021, 12:49 PM)SleepingHero Wrote: He will be Wes Matthews 2.0 with even worse shooting. I don't want to touch Smart with 10ft pole.
So Wes is clearly a better shooter and Smart is clearly a better defender so I think he's more the exact opposite of Wes Matthews. How about you get Smart and Dragic this offseason as a hedge? I really think Smart is an underrated player despite his outside shooting. And he does get hot sometimes.
RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL with $22.7M - $34.4M in capspace | FA starts Aug 2, 5 pm - StrandedOnBeauboisHill - 06-07-2021
(06-07-2021, 12:47 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: Ok, so yeah, I'm with your entire post. However, about the specific statement above:
1) Is an actual point guard going to want to play here without the ball in his hands at LEAST 40-60% of the time?
2) Is Luka ready/willing to give the ball up for anything close to those percentages? Does he even HAVE an off-ball game? I mean, I assume he is capable of playing off-ball or at least learning how, but we really, truly haven't seen much of that since he came here.
Ya, we basically have a Harden/Rockets dilemma on our hands...
You got to think that someone out there who just wants to win would be down to make that sacrifice like CP3 wanted to make when he requested moving to Houston. That seemed to not work out because Harden was a bit of a diva as opposed to the roles not being sufficient for them. Maybe Brogdon could be that guy but Pacers fans I've seen around the internet seem to think he's a bit of a ball hog and not willing to become a number 2 guard that he'd be better used as. If Lonzo is willing to go to Chicago then he seems willing to take the ball out of his hands but I could definitely see him replacing Rose in NYK instead just to make sure he has the ball more.
It really does suck because it's becoming apparent that we really need someone who can just go run the offense and create his own shot from time to time from the backcourt and our frontcourt should be built with protecting the rim in mind instead of offense (which I guess you can say is kind of what we did with KP but it just didn't work out) but your observation is very valid and it's hard to convince an NBA player to take a smaller role to help a team win because some 22 year old is way better than you. I think about this a lot when I think about all the Lavine dreams too, why would he give up that much offensive control...
RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL with $22.7M - $34.4M in capspace | FA starts Aug 2, 5 pm - SleepingHero - 06-07-2021
(06-07-2021, 12:52 PM)StepBackJay Wrote: I really think Smart is an underrated player despite his outside shooting. And he does get hot sometimes.
How do you think the offense will operate with Smart out there? We saw a taste of it with JRich this year. The spacing was completely off.
Smart is an even worse scorer than JRich. He's worse than Draymond in terms of scoring looking at raw numbers.
It'd completely ruin the spacing.
Which means Smart will have to be relegated to being the primary playmaker off the bench. I agree his playmaking will prove valuable there, but then we're relying on Brunson being the main scorer off the bench?
Dragic fills exactly what we're looking for in Smart. Dragic is a solid enough team defender, AND he can shoot it from anywhere. Not to mention the previous chemistry he has with Luka. He'll also be cheaper than Smart and won't require us to trade one of our best trade pieces.
RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL with $22.7M - $34.4M in capspace | FA starts Aug 2, 5 pm - dirkfansince1998 - 06-07-2021
(06-07-2021, 12:59 PM)SleepingHero Wrote: Smart is an even worse scorer than JRich. He's worse than Draymond in terms of scoring looking at raw numbers.
Higher volume and efficiency compared to both mentioned guys.
RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL with $22.7M - $34.4M in capspace | FA starts Aug 2, 5 pm - KillerLeft - 06-07-2021
(06-07-2021, 01:01 PM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: Higher volume and efficiency compared to both mentioned guys.
It's crystal clear that Smart is a better player than either Wright or Richardson on both ends of the floor, imo.
I STILL think the comparison is valid when thinking about how all three fit with Luka. You're not worried about that?
RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL with $22.7M - $34.4M in capspace | FA starts Aug 2, 5 pm - StrandedOnBeauboisHill - 06-07-2021
Oh also, @"KillerLeft", I know you have valid concerns about the Lavar Ball but I do recommend listening to Lonzo talk to Woj on his podcast. He definitely talks like a guy who recognizes the issue and is trying to keep him at arms length at this point.
RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL with $22.7M - $34.4M in capspace | FA starts Aug 2, 5 pm - omahen - 06-07-2021
(06-07-2021, 12:47 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: Is Luka ready/willing to give the ball up for anything close to those percentages? Does he even HAVE an off-ball game?
I've said this numerous times. Luka was always sharing floor with actual PG in Europe, both at Real (Llull) and our national team (Dragic). I am sure he doesn't have any problem sharing the ball with someone who actually knows what to do with it other than sling it to the hoop.
RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL with $22.7M - $34.4M in capspace | FA starts Aug 2, 5 pm - StrandedOnBeauboisHill - 06-07-2021
(06-07-2021, 01:05 PM)omahen Wrote: I've said this numerous times. Luka was always sharing floor with actual PG in Europe, both at Real (Llull) and our national team (Dragic). I am sure he doesn't have any problem sharing the ball with someone who actually knows what to do with it other than sling it to the hoop.
This is a really good point. I think the issue is less Luka being able to give up some control and more so bringing someone in to be a secondary playmaker who could probably be more in different Luka-less systems. I think it's easier to find a point guard with that mind set in Europe though than someone who has been brought up as the best player on every AAU team they've ever been on I guess is what I'm saying.
RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL with $22.7M - $34.4M in capspace | FA starts Aug 2, 5 pm - JamesConway - 06-07-2021
I remember how shocked I was when I read it, but Smart as a PnR ballhandler:
19-20 ==> 86th percentile (25% of his possessions)
20-21 ==> 70th percentile (23% of his possessions)
The guy would have a role here on offense where you can get away with him.
RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL with $22.7M - $34.4M in capspace | FA starts Aug 2, 5 pm - KillerLeft - 06-07-2021
(06-07-2021, 01:05 PM)omahen Wrote: I've said this numerous times. Luka was always sharing floor with actual PG in Europe, both at Real (Llull) and our national team (Dragic). I am sure he doesn't have any problem sharing the ball with someone who actually knows what to do with it other than sling it to the hoop.
Yeah, that's the question: Has Luka been ball dominate here simply because it's the only good option?
I trust your opinion on it, but I also want to point out that he's playing point guard in pretty much all of the Euro footage that has been shared with me. I'd say one difference is that he seems to have been on the bench for longer over there. Maybe they just have fewer but deeper good teams, and bench players play longer? IDK, but most of the time I've seen him in the game, I feel like he has been playing PG.
Please understand, I'm not questioning his ability to play off-ball. I'm saying maybe he doesn't really want to, although the explanation you're giving is possible, too. I just don't think we've seen enough here, with the Mavericks, to make it clear.
RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL with $22.7M - $34.4M in capspace | FA starts Aug 2, 5 pm - dirkfansince1998 - 06-07-2021
(06-07-2021, 01:03 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: It's crystal clear that Smart is a better player than either Wright or Richardson on both ends of the floor, imo.
I STILL think the comparison is valid when thinking about how all three fit with Luka. You're not worried about that?
I am worried about it but I am convinced that the Mavs need the kind of leadership and toughness a player like Smart brings. Also not sure if a better option is available.
RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL with $22.7M - $34.4M in capspace | FA starts Aug 2, 5 pm - StepBackJay - 06-07-2021
(06-07-2021, 12:59 PM)SleepingHero Wrote: How do you think the offense will operate with Smart out there? We saw a taste of it with JRich this year. The spacing was completely off.
Smart is an even worse scorer than JRich. He's worse than Draymond in terms of scoring looking at raw numbers.
It'd completely ruin the spacing.
Which means Smart will have to be relegated to being the primary playmaker off the bench. I agree his playmaking will prove valuable there, but then we're relying on Brunson being the main scorer off the bench?
Dragic fills exactly what we're looking for in Smart. Dragic is a solid enough team defender, AND he can shoot it from anywhere. Not to mention the previous chemistry he has with Luka. He'll also be cheaper than Smart and won't require us to trade one of our best trade pieces.
I see what you are saying. I could live with Dragic altho he gets hurt a lot. How ab RoCo/Nurkic/DJJ for KP, resign THJ (which seems inevitable) then sign Dragic as 6th man/spot starter.
I think Dragic will likely need to be a 6th man for the regular season to manage his minutes.
In the scenario you would have Luka/THJ/DFS/RoCo/Nurkic/Dragic/Brunson/Maxi/Powell/DJJ with still the ability to make additional moves. I believe Blazers would do a KP package if it doesn't require CJ.
RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL with $22.7M - $34.4M in capspace | FA starts Aug 2, 5 pm - DallasBasketball - 06-07-2021
Smart makes sense but paying a high price for him does not.
I think we have the inside track on Dragic and won’t have to give up anything but cap space to have him.
RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL with $22.7M - $34.4M in capspace | FA starts Aug 2, 5 pm - JamesConway - 06-07-2021
Re Lonzo: the guy might not be a superstar but he would be a dream fit here. Size on the perimeter, shooting, darn good passing, high BBIQ. Almost 70th percentile as a PnR ballhandler.
PG: Lonzo
SG: Luka
SF: DFS
That’s a terrific combo at 1-3 Imo. Very complementary. He’s good in a relatively low usage rate and has basically shown two seasons in a row that he can knock down a high volume of threes efficiently.
I think KP would flourish alongside him. Better entry passes, another competent PnR handler, pass first guy.
If I had to choose out of the limited options we’ve got I’d probably target him. He checks A LOT of the boxes we need on the perimeter/wing.
But yes RFA status and salary might be rough.
RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL with $22.7M - $34.4M in capspace | FA starts Aug 2, 5 pm - StepBackJay - 06-07-2021
(06-07-2021, 01:10 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: Yeah, that's the question: Has Luka been ball dominate here simply because it's the only good option?
I actually don't think Luka needs to do much off-ball in the sense that when he's on the court usually the best option is for him to have the ball. Where Luka doing some off-ball is handy is Luka being able to take off a few plays when he's on the court. If he can give the ball to a guy that can actually make something handy then Luka can still space the floor without exerting a lot of energy. Part of what's so tough on Luka is that he has to spend a TON of energy when he's out there. I mean that 45 playoff minutes of basketball is a freaking hard 45 minutes of basketball.
So a secondary playmaker helps you in 2 ways: 1. Let Luka catch his breath a few times while on the court but still spacing the floor 2. Allow you to play Luka 40 minutes in the playoffs instead of 45 bc you can actually run an offense when Luka is resting.
RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL with $22.7M - $34.4M in capspace | FA starts Aug 2, 5 pm - StepBackJay - 06-07-2021
(06-07-2021, 01:21 PM)DallasBasketball Wrote: Smart makes sense but paying a high price for him does not.
I think we have the inside track on Dragic and won’t have to give up anything but cap space to have him.
I agree with your 2nd point. I am not ready to give up entirely on the Smart idea but I get ya'lls point on his shooting woes.