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+--- Thread: 2020-2021 ROSTER TALK: Archived (/showthread.php?tid=682)
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RE: ROSTER TALK: Trade/FA Ideas (Mar 25 TDL) + Salary Chart - khaled1987 - 12-21-2020
(12-21-2020, 07:04 PM)omahen Wrote: What are you trying to say? That they rather took discounted deals than bet on themselves? With perhaps the exception of Isaac, all deals are huge. Fultz got 50 mil for 3 years, Kennard got 64 for 4 years, OG got 72 mil for 4 years,... None of them could have a realistic hope to get a much better deal next year.
It is the owners who are locking their guys rather than risk free agency. Like tax doesn't matter. Clippers will be deep in tax, Orlando has 125 guaranteed salary already with 12 players under contract (looks like Fournier will be gone).
And lots of those deals could have been better.
I agree with MFFL , OG for example would have never renewed if Giannis didn't. Raptors would have kept cap space.
Once the Giannis and Gobert of the world renewed, no one wanted to find someone auctioning on his RFA players and players knew the Covid situation and both decided it isn't worth the risk.
RE: ROSTER TALK: Trade/FA Ideas (Mar 25 TDL) + Salary Chart - omahen - 12-21-2020
(12-21-2020, 07:33 PM)DanSchwartzman Wrote: BTW, that Kennard deal is the floor for THJ and JRich.
I am not sure about THJ. Kennard is younger, same shooter and better facilitator. They both suck defensively. Assuming Kennard is healthy, THJ deal for same money would look worse. But of course, there will be competition for THJ. Since we will be over the cap, I don't really care, how much they pay him.
(12-21-2020, 07:33 PM)DanSchwartzman Wrote: The path to improvement will be some kind of Johnson Plus deal and bring back THJ and JRich (unless THJ is the Plus...which I doubt).
Agree. Unless something totally unexpected comes up, this is it. Other than that, I think Mavs will be looking for a two way player, someone who can defend but is better offensively than DFS. He must be a decent 3 point shooter. 6th man type like Fournier is alternative. Here are possible options:
- Oladipo (Luka would play PF on defense against teams that don't sport big PF) - I think Mavs will go hard after him, if he looks halfway decent
- Norman Powell
- OPJ
Not a long list
RE: ROSTER TALK: Trade/FA Ideas (Mar 25 TDL) + Salary Chart - DrMav - 12-21-2020
(12-21-2020, 07:33 PM)DanSchwartzman Wrote: The path to improvement will be some kind of Johnson Plus deal and bring back THJ and JRich (unless THJ is the Plus...which I doubt).
I agree, I’d they can find a quality piece in trade, as long as THJ and JRich aren’t dying to get out of here we can just pay whatever for them. At that point our team will be locked in with just exceptions left to spend for the foreseeable future so I don’t really care what they make.
I can’t see how Brunson is in the long term plans since he’s not going to be restricted and someone will probably offer him a combo of increased role and money, so I think you try and see what Johnson + Brunson can get you.
Hopefully that player can be player X in a Luka-THJ-JRich-X-KP lineup.
Aaron Gordon would be great but don’t think it’s realistic if the reports are true about them turning down Portland.
RE: ROSTER TALK: Trade/FA Ideas (Mar 25 TDL) + Salary Chart - DanSchwartzgan - 12-21-2020
(12-21-2020, 08:55 PM)DrMav Wrote: I can’t see how Brunson is in the long term plans since he’s not going to be restricted and someone will probably offer him a combo of increased role and money, so I think you try and see what Johnson + Brunson can get you.
Brunson is extension eligible next summer before he's UFA in 2022. He's actually extension eligible right now, but that is a longer story.
Next summer they can decline his TO for 21 making him RFA with a very small cap hold. Tough call. RFA in 21 may add to LT (or throw them into it if they aren't there already). Or, wait until 22 and potentially lose him for nothing as a UFA.
RE: ROSTER TALK: Trade/FA Ideas (Mar 25 TDL) + Salary Chart - DrMav - 12-21-2020
(12-21-2020, 09:16 PM)DanSchwartzman Wrote: Brunson is extension eligible next summer before he's UFA in 2022. He's actually extension eligible right now, but that is a longer story.
Next summer they can decline his TO for 21 making him RFA with a very small cap hold. Tough call. RFA in 21 may add to LT (or throw them into it if they aren't there already). Or, wait until 22 and potentially lose him for nothing as a UFA.
Is the 4th season actually a TO or is it just un-guaranteed, and does the CBA actually distinguish between the two when it comes to declining it and making him a RFA?
I like Brunson and would be very happy with him as Luka’s backup for the next few seasons, but he just seems like a guy that is destined to be lost for nothing if we don’t capitalize on moving him.
RE: ROSTER TALK: Trade/FA Ideas (Mar 25 TDL) + Salary Chart - jesusshuttlesworth82 - 12-21-2020
Omg Brunson ain’t shit. If we’re worried about losing him, so are 18 other teams about their backup pg. I did a top 50 pg rankings. I couldn’t get Brunson in my top 40. Nuggets just signed Monte Morris. Now that’s a backup worth worrying about.
RE: ROSTER TALK: Trade/FA Ideas (Mar 25 TDL) + Salary Chart - MFFL OLD - 12-22-2020
(12-21-2020, 07:04 PM)omahen Wrote: What are you trying to say? That they rather took discounted deals than bet on themselves?
Not a discount, just a guarantee
Maybe they might prefer a different location but this isn't the time to screw around. Take the money (especially if it is a fair deal) and leave location and maybe MORE money for a later contract
I think when Lebron and the rest of the big dogs took the extensions, it signaled to the rest of the players that guaranteed money is the key right now. All the playing with your friends took a backseat to the guarantee
RE: ROSTER TALK: Trade/FA Ideas (Mar 25 TDL) + Salary Chart - dirkfansince1998 - 12-22-2020
Not extending THJ makes zero sense if they want to keep him longterm. Makes a lot of sense if they want to use his large expiring in a trade.
RE: ROSTER TALK: Trade/FA Ideas (Mar 25 TDL) + Salary Chart - Branduil - 12-22-2020
I mean more than anything you'd want to confirm last year wasn't a fluke before committing long-term money to THJ.
RE: ROSTER TALK: Trade/FA Ideas (Mar 25 TDL) + Salary Chart - SleepingHero - 12-22-2020
(12-22-2020, 12:58 AM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: Not extending THJ makes zero sense if they want to keep him longterm. Makes a lot of sense if they want to use his large expiring in a trade.
![[Image: giphy.gif]](https://media.giphy.com/media/1dWPADodinkkMDIVSj/giphy.gif)
RE: ROSTER TALK: Trade/FA Ideas (Mar 25 TDL) + Salary Chart - Branduil - 12-22-2020
Aaron Gordon should definitely be available now that Isaac got extended.
RE: ROSTER TALK: Trade/FA Ideas (Mar 25 TDL) + Salary Chart - StepBackJay - 12-22-2020
(12-22-2020, 12:58 AM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: Not extending THJ makes zero sense if they want to keep him longterm. Makes a lot of sense if they want to use his large expiring in a trade.
Why not just see how this year goes?
Isaac 4/80 makes sense. Some of these other deals are too pricey, Mavs don't need to overpay. It's shrewd to keep your powder dry. They will have plenty of money to resign J Rich and keep THJ if that's what they want to do.
RE: ROSTER TALK: Trade/FA Ideas (Mar 25 TDL) + Salary Chart - StepBackJay - 12-22-2020
(12-21-2020, 09:30 PM)jesusshuttlesworth82 Wrote: Omg Brunson ain’t shit. If we’re worried about losing him, so are 18 other teams about their backup pg. I did a top 50 pg rankings. I couldn’t get Brunson in my top 40. Nuggets just signed Monte Morris. Now that’s a backup worth worrying about.
Brunson is the new whipping boy around here, maybe as much as Powell? I really like Brunson but this is an important year. He hadn't really earned regular rotation minutes until the second half of last season. I do think he has some ball hogging tendencies but I like his overall game. On the one hand, backup PGs are not too hard to find, on the other we are talking about Rick Carlisle. Finding PG's that Rick trusts is really hard.
RE: ROSTER TALK: Trade/FA Ideas (Mar 25 TDL) + Salary Chart - DanSchwartzgan - 12-22-2020
(12-21-2020, 07:37 PM)omahen Wrote: I know
Another interesting option for a bit overpaid player who can play would be Rozier, another salary match for Johnson. I assume Charlotte will want to move Ball in the starting five soon. Than they basically have to decide between Rozier or Graham.
I think the long term plan is Ball plus Graham. Other than money, there isn't a reason why they can't keep all three. However, money might prove important as they can generate significant space in 21 if they move Rozier for an expiring deal (see below from Charlotte Preview from The Athletic). The question is the fit on Dallas. He'd be a very expensive sixth man providing an expiring deal in 22 instead of Johnson's expiring deal in 21.
I can see the appeal. He had a good defensive reputation in Boston and hit 40% of his 3's in Charlotte last season. But, his teams are normally MUCH better when he sits than when he plays. He's always negative on a RPM basis (but not as much as on-minus-off). Do you sit Brunson (the 28th best PG in RPM last season) in favor of Rozier at 10 times the money? I think it was much easier to forecast a renaissance for JRich than it is for Terry. With that said, I thought your comment deserved a little more attention.
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Nonetheless, Charlotte fans can reasonably be excited about where this is headed. Ball’s size should allow him to defend 2s comfortably, which means he won’t push Graham off the floor. Graham, in turn, should benefit hugely from Ball’s deft passing setting him up for open 3s. With those two, Hayward and Washington, one can see the foundation of a real Charlotte offense in future seasons.
Ball came off the bench in the first two preseason games, and given the short runway to the regular season, one suspects he’ll begin the regular season as a reserve as well. Nevertheless, this is just a matter of time. Ball’s size and skill profile fit perfectly next to Graham in particular, while Terry Rozier is the one prominent player on the current roster who is unlikely to be part of the long-term plan. Sooner or later, Ball will be starting in his place.
What’s the next step?
Charlotte has some kind of a foundation now with a Hayward-Ball partnership in the backcourt and maybe a few interesting pieces around them like Graham, Washington and Bridges. Now what?
The first step in whatever is next is figuring out whether to give Graham a contract extension. It’s not an open-and-shut case because his cap hold is going to be so much lower than whatever his extension dollars become. Charlotte is also capped at offering him $12 million in 2021-22, or $54 million over four years, which could make it a moot point if Graham perceives his value to be greater. Graham is on a minimum deal, but if we presume Graham hits the starter criteria, his cap hold will be $5.7 million.
That amount matters, especially if the Hornets can move the redundant Rozier’s $18 million salary. Even after the Hayward deal and the Batum stretch, Charlotte is positioned to have significant cap room next summer. The exact amount depends in part on where the first-round pick lands, but a rough guesstimate is $20 million. It becomes max room if the Hornets can move Rozier but significantly less if Graham extends at $12 million.
RE: ROSTER TALK: Trade/FA Ideas (Mar 25 TDL) + Salary Chart - dirkfansince1998 - 12-22-2020
(12-22-2020, 08:56 AM)StepBackJay Wrote: Why not just see how this year goes?
Caphold 28mio...New salary in the Kennard range 12-15mio a year. In terms of free agency and the next summer an extension would have made things easier.
That´s obviously not the case if the Mavs aren´t sold on THJ as a fit in the lineup. In that case they are better off with a large expiring deal that can bring back more salary in a trade.
RE: ROSTER TALK: Trade/FA Ideas (Mar 25 TDL) + Salary Chart - michaeltex - 12-22-2020
Did I see somewhere that DAL can still extend THJ and Richardson during the season? Since they are in the final year of their current deals? But that would limit their money and can (theoretically) get more by letting the current contracts expire?
RE: ROSTER TALK: Trade/FA Ideas (Mar 25 TDL) + Salary Chart - KillerLeft - 12-22-2020
(12-22-2020, 09:29 AM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: That´s obviously not the case if the Mavs aren´t sold on THJ as a fit in the lineup. In that case they are better off with a large expiring deal that can bring back more salary in a trade.
Well...except, there’s no reason to fully decide yet, either way. Not being sure, at this point, isn’t the same as being sure they don’t want him back.
RE: ROSTER TALK: Trade/FA Ideas (Mar 25 TDL) + Salary Chart - dirkfansince1998 - 12-22-2020
(12-22-2020, 10:13 AM)KillerLeft Wrote: Well...except, there’s no reason to fully decide yet, either way. Not being sure, at this point, isn’t the same as being sure they don’t want him back.
They still have time but from a pure cap management standpoint it doesn´t make a lot of sense not to extend THJ if they want to keep him. It´s always difficult to make those decisions. If THJ has another great shooting season he can ask for a lot of money and the Mavs probably would have been better off with an early extension. If he underperforms the Mavs can be happy because they played it smart and can let his contract expire, trade him or resign him for cheap.
Up to Donnie and RC to make the right decision at the right time. Personally I think THJ will have a good season next to Luka. That´s why I would prefer an early extension.
RE: ROSTER TALK: Trade/FA Ideas (Mar 25 TDL) + Salary Chart - KillerLeft - 12-22-2020
(12-22-2020, 10:23 AM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: Up to Donnie and RC to make the right decision at the right time. Personally I think THJ will have a good season next to Luka. That´s why I would prefer an early extension.
I expect the same, and wouldn’t be upset with an extension.
Having said that, your point seems to pre-assume that losing him in free agency or overpaying a good version of him are terrible outcomes. To me, the single worst outcome is to commit long term dollars to a player and then decide AFTERWARDS that he doesn’t fit.
One thing we can all agree about, I hope, is that the Mavs’ current culture is good. It seems like everyone around the league who gets asked notes how close the team is and how much they support each other on the court. My hypothesis is that players will WANT to re-sign here. Luka might be a bit young to attract the Giannis/Kawhi types, and I’m not suggesting that the Richardson and THJ types are going to accept huge discounts just to stay, but I’ve never felt like the Mavs were in danger of losing them IF they want them back.
So, to me, there’s value in delaying these extensions or new contracts, keeping the OPTION of using the expiring deals at the deadline alive. I see no compelling argument to commit prior to the trade deadline at all.
RE: ROSTER TALK: Trade/FA Ideas (Mar 25 TDL) + Salary Chart - omahen - 12-22-2020
(12-22-2020, 09:09 AM)DanSchwartzman Wrote: I can see the appeal. He had a good defensive reputation in Boston and hit 40% of his 3's in Charlotte last season. But, his teams are normally MUCH better when he sits than when he plays. He's always negative on a RPM basis (but not as much as on-minus-off). Do you sit Brunson (the 28th best PG in RPM last season) in favor of Rozier at 10 times the money? I think it was much easier to forecast a renaissance for JRich than it is for Terry. With that said, I thought your comment deserved a little more attention.
Thanks. If I would go after him, I would actually put him in the starting lineup. In my opinion, DP will be out of the starting lineup once KP returns, which means Mavs will play three wings next to Luka. Luka size could allow to play Rozier-Richardson-THJ next to Luka and KP (with exception when Maxi is needed to defend big boys like Zion or AD). As you said, some of the stats say he is a very good player yet I have not seen enough of him to really make a judgement. However, he is certainly an upgrade over Johnson and (if that is the price) back up PG. I would prefer pick, I just say IF.
As for Brunson - I am affraid he is too good to be a back up PG behind Luka limited to some 15-20 min per game but not good enough to be our starter. That's why it might make more sense to go for a different option on that position. A bit less quality at back up PG would not be a disaster, plenty of able back ups in the game.