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2020-2021 ROSTER TALK: Archived - Printable Version

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RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL with $22.7M - $34.4M in capspace this summer - DanSchwartzgan - 04-06-2021

(04-06-2021, 08:55 AM)StepBackJay Wrote: Isn't the most obvious scenario CP3 just stays with Phoenix? He wanted to be there and the team is 2nd in the West. Why not just opt into 44 mil and give it another go?

Agree on the most obvious scenario is staying in Phoenix.

Disagree that he will opt in and give it a go.  If there is an extra $45mm on the table in a 3/$90 type deal, he will take the money and run.  At his age there is no promise of what his health/skill will be at the end of the 2022 season.  Once you arrive at that conclusion, then you start to look at the history of the Sun’s owner and wonder if he will make that financial commitment.  He should, but will he.

I think it takes 3 years to pry Paul away (can’t go four because of 38 plus rule).  Conley would probably require 3-4 years.  Lowry already set his market at $25mm/year for two years.  One of the things that might make him easier to swallow is you could stick some salary in a third non-guaranteed year and keep a little room (or maybe get his 20/21 number low enough that you could send JRich to Toronto if he’s amenable and stay over the cap).

RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL with $22.7M - $34.4M in capspace this summer - StepBackJay - 04-06-2021

(04-06-2021, 09:09 AM)JamesConway Wrote: Of course it’s true. He fed us the „he respects Carlisle so much he might actually sign with the Mavs“-crap via ESPN when he needed leverage before re-signing with MEM. He didn’t want to come when he had the chance in UFA. Screw him the same way Kemba can screw himself waiting for Ainge to dump his butt on a rebuilding team.

Paying Brunson and extending his role is the way to go if we’re thinking about short guards. JB is the future.

No one cares ab that stuff. FA is a game, NBA is a business. I promise what happened back then has zero impact on anything that will happen this offseason.

To your other point ab Brunson ya I think we are at the stage where we want to keep him happy. It's possible that we need to make Brunson the starter and bring in guys to be on the bench. I don't want a scenario where Brunson leaves in a year because he wants to be a starter.

RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL with $22.7M - $34.4M in capspace this summer - StepBackJay - 04-06-2021

(04-06-2021, 09:51 AM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: Agree on the most obvious scenario is staying in Phoenix.

Disagree that he will opt in and give it a go.  If there is an extra $45mm on the table in a 3/$90 type deal, he will take the money and run.  At his age there is no promise of what his health/skill will be at the end of the 2022 season.  Once you arrive at that conclusion, then you start to look at the history of the Sun’s owner and wonder if he will make that financial commitment.  He should, but will he.

I think it takes 3 years to pry Paul away (can’t go four because of 38 plus rule).  Conley would probably require 3-4 years.  Lowry already set his market at $25mm/year for two years.  One of the things that might make him easier to swallow is you could stick some salary in a third non-guaranteed year and keep a little room (or maybe get his 20/21 number low enough that you could send JRich to Toronto if he’s amenable and stay over the cap).

I know we are all impressed by CP3's production at his age but man any time signing him to multiple years at big money is taking on a major risk at this point. He is going to hit a wall eventually. I don't like his fit with Dallas anyways bc CP3 needs to be the alpha and that's just not going to work on a Luka team. Even KP is having a hard time adjusting to having to be second fiddle. Luka has to be the clear alpha. You saw the issue with Harden and CP3 co-existing. I would not mess with that at all.

RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL with $22.7M - $34.4M in capspace this summer - Jason Terry - 04-06-2021

(04-06-2021, 09:39 AM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: You keep saying this like it somehow makes sense and will return something of value.  Trying to be kind here, but that seems improbable.
I think what they’re trying to say is those are the next salary matching pieces(the new Wright/Jackson/Johnson)

Could be used with assets (the rookies and/or picks) to trade for an overpriced player like Horford or an expiring contract like TJ Warren for example

RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL with $22.7M - $34.4M in capspace this summer - Jason Terry - 04-06-2021

I’d do 4/100 for Conley. Let the FA’s walk and roll with a 3 guard rotation of Luka/Conley/Brunson all getting starter minutes. Only if we have an illegal deal worked out before FA opens

CP3/Lowry/Kawhi are all pipe dreams. They all have several options better than being in Dallas Texas. They are coastal bro’s. CP3 should just run it back as he’s in the perfect situation

RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL with $22.7M - $34.4M in capspace this summer - Kammrath - 04-06-2021

RE: Paying Old Men Lots of Money

I do not want the Mavs pursuing ANY big money guys over the age of 33. No. No. No.

RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL with $22.7M - $34.4M in capspace this summer - BasketballJones41 - 04-06-2021

(04-06-2021, 10:24 AM)Kammrath Wrote: RE: Paying Old Men Lots of Money

I do not want the Mavs pursuing ANY big money guys over the age of 33. No. No. No.
Co-sign! +41 +77

RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL with $22.7M - $34.4M in capspace this summer - StepBackJay - 04-06-2021

(04-06-2021, 10:15 AM)Jason Terry Wrote: I’d do 4/100 for Conley. Let the FA’s walk and roll with a 3 guard rotation of Luka/Conley/Brunson all getting starter minutes. Only if we have an illegal deal worked out before FA opens

CP3/Lowry/Kawhi are all pipe dreams. They all have several options better than being in Dallas Texas. They are coastal bro’s. CP3 should just run it back as he’s in the perfect situation

Not sure if you are joking ab pay a 37 year old Conley 25 million dollars?

RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL with $22.7M - $34.4M in capspace this summer - HanspardShowerVoice - 04-06-2021

How about we focus on younger players who could actually be better 2 years from now, rather than worse 2 years from now?

RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL with $22.7M - $34.4M in capspace this summer - DanSchwartzgan - 04-06-2021

(04-06-2021, 10:04 AM)Jason Terry Wrote: I think what they’re trying to say is those are the next salary matching pieces(the new Wright/Jackson/Johnson)

Could be used with assets (the rookies and/or picks) to trade for an overpriced player like Horford or an expiring contract like TJ Warren for example

I think there is a spread between turning salary matching pieces into James Johnson and turning them into real NBA starters like Warren and Horford.  I think you can also make an argument that Wright (who is healthy) has more value around the league than post-injury Powell.  I’ll reserve the right to be proven wrong, but I don’t see Powell/Burke being the foundation of anything that brings back value (and I like Powell).

RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL with $22.7M - $34.4M in capspace this summer - Jason Terry - 04-06-2021

(04-06-2021, 10:46 AM)StepBackJay Wrote: Not sure if you are joking ab pay a 37 year old Conley 25 million dollars?
Just having fun enjoying the speculation.

100% on board for running it back with this same squad. Re-sign everyone and stay over the cap using the MLE and BAE. 

Nothing in FA is worth losing our exceptions plus THj and JR

The real discussion should be: who is the MLE?

RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL with $22.7M - $34.4M in capspace this summer - StepBackJay - 04-06-2021

(04-06-2021, 10:32 AM)BasketballJones41 Wrote: Co-sign! +41 +77

I don't have any issue with older players as stop-gaps, which means short deals. You see contending teams getting older players to fill out their roster because when its playoff time you need vets. Remember when the Cavs had Larry Nance, Rodney Hood and Jordan Clarkson a couple of years ago? These were talented players that at the time weren't ready for big-time playoff basketball on a title-seeking Cavs team.

Most of the contenders have some older vets on their team. It's rare that you would have a real contender with just 20-somethings.

I am not a proponent of handing out giant deals to old guys and I don't see the Mavs doing that. Mavs have a good young core as well as some not-too-old vets (Maxi, THJ, etc). It appears to me if the Mavs go big on anybody it's going to be Collins or something in that vein who is young and could be part of a younger core.

If the Mavs fail to land a "big fish" (and there is reason to believe they will) then to me you fill out your roster the best way you can without signing any dumb contracts. That could include 23 year olds or 33 year olds. In my opinion older vets **can** be brought in on value-contracts sometimes because rebuilding teams tend to want to get younger players which drives the market down (in theory) for those players.

To me you need guys that fit either way. I know some of the board darlings like Lauri and Holmes have talent and upside but just don't like the fit.

RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL with $22.7M - $34.4M in capspace this summer - SleepingHero - 04-06-2021

(04-06-2021, 09:08 AM)Mavs2021 Wrote: Deron Williams


Deron Williams was on the Ringer's podcast and delved into that 2012 offseason. He flat out said he was coming to Dallas and it was just a matter of feeling wanted. Remember he said he never felt comfortable on the Nets and they were losing big time and he always wanted to play for the Mavs.

He actually was house shopping and already bought a house in Dallas to prepare to move, but when Cuban and Dirk didn't show up to the meeting, and Nellie came in with no real concrete plan (Deron said "Nellie said to just trust us"), he went to the team that gave him an itemized list of what they were going to do the next 3 years.

It made Donnie look like an idiot.

RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL with $22.7M - $34.4M in capspace this summer - StepBackJay - 04-06-2021

(04-06-2021, 10:51 AM)HanspardShowerVoice Wrote: How about we focus on younger players who could actually be better 2 years from now, rather than worse 2 years from now?

You only play one season at a time. Why not put together the best roster you can every season? NBA contracts tend to be shorter anyway so by the time your young player is better they are already up for a new deal.

RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL with $22.7M - $34.4M in capspace this summer - BasketballJones41 - 04-06-2021

(04-06-2021, 10:51 AM)HanspardShowerVoice Wrote: How about we focus on younger players who could actually be better 2 years from now, rather than worse 2 years from now?
Any interest in buying low on French Frank or Zach Collins? They seem like prime reclamation projects to me.

RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL with $22.7M - $34.4M in capspace this summer - Kammrath - 04-06-2021

(04-06-2021, 11:01 AM)BasketballJones41 Wrote: French Frank


[Image: giphy.gif]

RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL with $22.7M - $34.4M in capspace this summer - Kammrath - 04-06-2021

(04-06-2021, 10:59 AM)SleepingHero Wrote: Deron Williams was on the Ringer's podcast and delved into that 2012 offseason. He flat out said he was coming to Dallas and it was just a matter of feeling wanted. Remember he said he never felt comfortable on the Nets and they were losing big time and he always wanted to play for the Mavs.

He actually was house shopping and already bought a house in Dallas to prepare to move, but when Cuban and Dirk didn't show up to the meeting, and Nellie came in with no real concrete plan (Deron said "Nellie said to just trust us"), he went to the team that gave him an itemized list of what they were going to do the next 3 years.

It made Donnie look like an idiot.

[Image: AnotherImperfectAmazontreeboa-max-1mb.gif]

RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL with $22.7M - $34.4M in capspace this summer - Mavs2021 - 04-06-2021

(04-06-2021, 09:39 AM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: You keep saying this like it somehow makes sense and will return something of value.  Trying to be kind here, but that seems improbable.

No what makes no sense is you trying to solve an equation with variables you don´t know. As assets can be multiple 1st round picks + multiple players.

Makes even less sense, when you are one of the guys most heavily defending Dwight Powell. Now you suddenly attach massive negative value to his contract.

So what is it? Dodgy

RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL with $22.7M - $34.4M in capspace this summer - StepBackJay - 04-06-2021

(04-06-2021, 10:54 AM)Jason Terry Wrote: Just having fun enjoying the speculation.

100% on board for running it back with this same squad. Re-sign everyone and stay over the cap using the MLE and BAE. 

Nothing in FA is worth losing our exceptions plus THj and JR

The real discussion should be: who is the MLE?

This is an interesting point that should get fleshed out. I think its debatable whether operating over the cap is a big advantage.

So operating over the cap allows you to retain THJ and JR at any number you want to which could include higher dollar, shorter years which could advantage the Mavs. You additionally get that full MLE and the BAE available. My issue with that is that if Mavs did have to spend a good chunk of money on THJ and JR then they are likely going to take it easy on the MLE and BAE exceptions. That's because their salary rolls could get really high unless they can successfully dump Powell.

Operating with cap space can give you around that 37 mil mark plus the smaller MLE. I think that is still plenty of money to improve the roster. I don't think in terms of roster construction that over-the-cap is that much of an advantage. This would be a different situation if the Mavs were barely under the cap. Like let's say the Mavs could only carve out 10 million in cap space by renouncing their FA's. Well in that case you would probably try to figure out a way to keep some of your FAs while preserving the full MLE.

It really comes down to how much the Mavs value THJ and/or JR. I think they value them some but they also value the ability to chase what they view as star players (ie Collins). I don't believe the Mavs are scared of losing THJ/JR (ie bird in the hand) while they chase whoever their top target is this year. I am confident if those guys go elsewhere the Mavs can still build a good roster and one that has some flexibility. 

We don't want any bad contracts. In my opinion DP is the only bad contract we have right now and he's a year away from being a neutral contract at worst.

RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL with $22.7M - $34.4M in capspace this summer - Mavs2021 - 04-06-2021

(04-06-2021, 10:59 AM)SleepingHero Wrote: Deron Williams was on the Ringer's podcast and delved into that 2012 offseason. He flat out said he was coming to Dallas and it was just a matter of feeling wanted. Remember he said he never felt comfortable on the Nets and they were losing big time and he always wanted to play for the Mavs.

He actually was house shopping and already bought a house in Dallas to prepare to move, but when Cuban and Dirk didn't show up to the meeting, and Nellie came in with no real concrete plan (Deron said "Nellie said to just trust us"), he went to the team that gave him an itemized list of what they were going to do the next 3 years.

It made Donnie look like an idiot.

Makes them all look like idiots.