(04-02-2021, 12:53 PM)omahen Wrote: 1. Who knows. He certainly is way better than anything we have at PF.
2. No, but he will sign max or very close to max contract
3. I think yes. We have arguably top 5 player in the league and a decent Robin. If we think that we are still very far away, than perhaps those guys are not top5 and very decent Robin.

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I agree. The only reasonable way I see is the Brogdon way. Basically Atlanta not prepared to match max contract and accept a FRP as a compensation to back off. It might be much easier if Atlanta fails in playoffs. I think players valuation will depend a lot on how they perform in playoffs. In any case, I would hope Mavs would be sending some salary away in a SnT (to Atlanta or third team) so that we can retain at least one of JRich/THJ.

(04-02-2021, 01:59 PM)Mavs2021 Wrote: I don´t think the cheap Bulls owner would match a max offer for him.

(04-02-2021, 10:29 AM)Mavs2021 Wrote: No it has not. The Bulls have lost all three games since the trade. They are 1-7 over their last eight. If Duffy comes to them in the summer and says: Just a heads up, Lavine wants to play with Luka, he won´t sign an extension. You might want to talk to the Mavericks now or lose him for nothing next summer.

Mavs trade 2023 protected for 2022 unprotected to the Knicks. Throw in a Ntilikina S&T for Terry as an incentive, if necessary.

Then offer the Bulls Powell + Burke  + Kleber (at least one 1st round pick re-trade value), 2024, 2026, 2028 unprotected, plus 2025 + 2027 swaps. That´s up to 6-7 first round picks for a guy on an expiring contract that will leave in 12 months. If they say no, call the Wizards. One of them says YES.

You keep a 2023 1st round pick swap (converted into two seconds) and Green in your back-pocket to incentivise the Hawks not to match the offer.

There are ways to get two top players here this summer from a cap and asset POV (though then we are probably completely empty until 2028), but the Mavs biggest problem remains to convince FAs to actually play here.

(04-02-2021, 01:59 PM)Mavs2021 Wrote: What Collins really comes down to is his relationship with Young. How much of a trade asset is Collins on a max contract, if the relationship with Young is permanently broken. In that case it ´s in the best interest of Collins and the Hawks to keep it quiet. Collins gets to pick his team, while the Hawks can extract a positive asset via a S&T, because they have a believable matching threat. If we have to give them Green and some pick swap so be it.

Markkanen is the more realistic RFA target. I don´t think the cheap Bulls owner would match a max offer for him. But after such a stunt, you can forget the Bulls also trading us Lavine in the same summer.  But there are other options like Beal, Ball, DeRozan etc.

(04-02-2021, 12:53 PM)omahen Wrote: 1. Who knows. He certainly is way better than anything we have at PF.
2. No, but he will sign max or very close to max contract
3. I think yes. We have arguably top 5 player in the league and a decent Robin. If we think that we are still very far away, than perhaps those guys are not top5 and very decent Robin.

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I agree. The only reasonable way I see is the Brogdon way. Basically Atlanta not prepared to match max contract and accept a FRP as a compensation to back off. It might be much easier if Atlanta fails in playoffs. I think players valuation will depend a lot on how they perform in playoffs. In any case, I would hope Mavs would be sending some salary away in a SnT (to Atlanta or third team) so that we can retain at least one of JRich/THJ.

(04-02-2021, 06:13 AM)Mavs2021 Wrote:  I think it won´t take a lot of convincing to offer the Knicks a swap of 2023 top 10 protected for 2022 unprotected.

(04-02-2021, 08:27 AM)Branduil Wrote: Rather than complicate things, I think trading KP makes things simpler in the sense that I don't think the Mavs can get the assets to trade for Collins otherwise. The complication is that I don't think Atlanta would want KP so things would have to be routed through a third team.

(04-02-2021, 08:31 AM)StepBackJay Wrote: Also a thing we need to understand is that future firsts are first and foremost a store of value, like Bitcoin or currency. So ya a pick way into the future seems less valuable than one in the near-term but it's not always the case. For one, a future pick is one that takes up no salary or roster spots. Some teams have too many young players as it is. They don't need more guys taking up minutes, salary and roster spots. 

Further, future picks add more risk to the team trading them away because so much can change during that time. For the Mavs if they had a pick next year you can predict with a fair degree of access where that pick will be. For a future pick you don't know where it will land and you can up the value by removing protections.

All that being said I don't know if the Mavs will trade a future first or not. My guess is that they would move around some of their roster to get a pick or two that then can get passed to a team like Atlanta if they go big on Collins.

(04-02-2021, 08:52 AM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: I don't think the issue is how hard it is to get the middle class.  I think the issue is the middle class is always Plan B while we chase the bigger fish first.  Note the three guys in your example all went to LA.  Players have 29 other choices and sometimes the other choices are more attractive.  That's a fact of life, not a failing of the MBT.  Who doesn't want to win a ring with Lebron?

Maybe we should stop trying to be LA and do what Indy did the moment free agency opened with Brogdon or what Utah did the moment free agency opened with Bogdonovic or what Charlotte did the moment free agency opened with Hayward.  Make those guys Plan A.  Atlanta used $37 million in space last summer to get Gallinari AND Bogdonovic.  Do that rather than waiting around on a 1% chance Kawhi picks us.  We can debate who that is in 2021, but it is the team's job to know who would jump at the chance to be here and who might have us further down their list.  

I don't see a path to Collins.  My interest in him was at the TDL when you could hold his matching rights.  I see a huge issue with trying to work this out with Atlanta while other names are flying off the board (we know how that movie ends).  I'm also not sure we would be Collins' first choice.  I get why a Dallas-centric community would think playing next to Luka and KP is perfect for any player.  However, if I am his agent, my main job is to get the most I can get now and set him up for the next contract.  I'd much rather place him where he would be first or second fiddle rather than third.  That way he's got a much better shot at a five year 7-9 max money deal the next time.

A great example of this is Christian Wood.  We sent Detroit more than enough salary to match Wood and pretty clearly they preferred Wright over Ariza.  The rest of the deal with Houston wasn't hard to replicate.  My takeaway isn't that the MBT failed.  My takeaway is Wood saw a bigger role (and greater future riches) in Houston.  Crowder said the same thing about Phoenix.    

We can debate the specific names.  You don't like Monk, what about Norman Powell or DeRozan or Fournier or Duncan Robinson or Dinwiddie.  I don't think it will be hard to replace what THJ does.  Just because the team says they will be "aggressive" (which they say every year), it doesn't mean they are going to strictly look at Max guys.  What I'm advocating is making your target(s) guys that are realistic and getting that done at 5:01 like other teams in similar markets seem to be able to do.

(04-02-2021, 02:32 PM)StepBackJay Wrote: In my view the challenge would be outbidding other suitors who might have a better package.

(04-02-2021, 03:30 PM)omahen Wrote: Not at all. As we said many times before, it is Collins who chooses where he wants to go, because player has to agree with the SnT. Its either Atlanta because of his R status or where he wants. So the bigger job might actually be convincing him.

(04-02-2021, 03:38 PM)cow Wrote: We've heard grumblings about him not happy with his rung on the Atlanta latter (are we sure he's not better than Young?) so I'd think Dallas would probably be less desirable.  He'd be competing with KP for the 2nd best player.  

If he wants to be "that dude", OKC could be his team and they have the war chest to build a team around him.  Assuming they like him.

(04-02-2021, 02:11 PM)omahen Wrote: Max for Markanen???

(04-02-2021, 03:45 PM)omahen Wrote: The grumblings were actually about the coach and the style of play he allows. He is heart and soul of Atlanta and reportedly good buddy with Young. If we can believe media.

Of course I have no idea about his preferences as a player. But one might think being part of star trio on a contender is more important than putting up stats on a mediocre (at best) squad. Until Grant enters the room  But to present a bit more of an argument - Grant didn't get paid max money and would never be considered as a star in Denver

(04-02-2021, 03:47 PM)mvossman Wrote: Please No!

(04-02-2021, 12:41 PM)StepBackJay Wrote: You guys are right.

Look at how washed up Dipo is guarding Curry:

(04-02-2021, 03:47 PM)mvossman Wrote: Please No!

(04-02-2021, 03:56 PM)SleepingHero Wrote: But at the price he went for it's kind of shocking they at least didn't try.

(04-02-2021, 03:30 PM)omahen Wrote: Not at all. As we said many times before, it is Collins who chooses where he wants to go, because player has to agree with the SnT. Its either Atlanta because of his R status or where he wants. So the bigger job might actually be convincing him.

(04-02-2021, 03:48 PM)cow Wrote: I think from a star trio perspective is that you need to consider that the dude is young and he probably has aspirations to be a max contract player.  Ending up 3rd fiddle on a team makes that more difficult.  Grant is who I was thinking of as well, except Collins is probably a level or two above Grant as a player if you align their ages.  Winning isn't always the most important thing for these players and I don't really blame them.  I'd want to maximize my generational wealth potential too If I were them.