(04-02-2021, 08:58 AM)Branduil Wrote: In that case I think the logical offseason move would be to go after someone like Holmes and hope you can swing a trade for a guy like Brogdon later.

(04-02-2021, 08:52 AM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: I don't think the issue is how hard it is to get the middle class.  I think the issue is the middle class is always Plan B while we chase the bigger fish first.  Note the three guys in your example all went to LA.  Players have 29 other choices and sometimes the other choices are more attractive.  That's a fact of life, not a failing of the MBT.  Who doesn't want to win a ring with Lebron?

Maybe we should stop trying to be LA and do what Indy did the moment free agency opened with Brogdon or what Utah did the moment free agency opened with Bogdonovic or what Charlotte did the moment free agency opened with Hayward.  Make those guys Plan A.  Atlanta used $37 million in space last summer to get Gallinari AND Bogdonovic.  Do that rather than waiting around on a 1% chance Kawhi picks us.  We can debate who that is in 2021, but it is the team's job to know who would jump at the chance to be here and who might have us further down their list.  

I don't see a path to Collins.  My interest in him was at the TDL when you could hold his matching rights.  I see a huge issue with trying to work this out with Atlanta while other names are flying off the board (we know how that movie ends).  I'm also not sure we would be Collins' first choice.  I get why a Dallas-centric community would think playing next to Luka and KP is perfect for any player.  However, if I am his agent, my main job is to get the most I can get now and set him up for the next contract.  I'd much rather place him where he would be first or second fiddle rather than third.  That way he's got a much better shot at a five year 7-9 max money deal the next time.

A great example of this is Christian Wood.  We sent Detroit more than enough salary to match Wood and pretty clearly they preferred Wright over Ariza.  The rest of the deal with Houston wasn't hard to replicate.  My takeaway isn't that the MBT failed.  My takeaway is Wood saw a bigger role (and greater future riches) in Houston.  Crowder said the same thing about Phoenix.    

We can debate the specific names.  You don't like Monk, what about Norman Powell or DeRozan or Fournier or Duncan Robinson or Dinwiddie.  I don't think it will be hard to replace what THJ does.  Just because the team says they will be "aggressive" (which they say every year), it doesn't mean they are going to strictly look at Max guys.  What I'm advocating is making your target(s) guys that are realistic and getting that done at 5:01 like other teams in similar markets seem to be able to do.

(04-02-2021, 08:58 AM)Branduil Wrote: In that case I think the logical off-season move would be to go after someone like Holmes and hope you can swing a trade for a guy like Brogdon later.

(04-02-2021, 08:50 AM)khaled1987 Wrote: This makes me think, OKC will most likely be the biggest player in RFA, not the Mavs.
Cap space, nothing to lose if other team matches , tons of assets to work with teams for S&T.
Seems to me they will be better Signing/trading for Collins rather than going for KP.

(04-02-2021, 08:52 AM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: We can debate the specific names.  You don't like Monk, what about Norman Powell or DeRozan or Fournier or Duncan Robinson or Dinwiddie.  I don't think it will be hard to replace what THJ does.  Just because the team says they will be "aggressive" (which they say every year), it doesn't mean they are going to strictly look at Max guys.  What I'm advocating is making your target(s) guys that are realistic and getting that done at 5:01 like other teams in similar markets seem to be able to do.

(04-02-2021, 08:33 AM)StepBackJay Wrote: The window for a LaVine trade just got slammed shut with the big Vuc trade. I think your next opportunity would be if/when he hits free agency.

(04-02-2021, 10:29 AM)Mavs2021 Wrote: Mavs trade 2023 protected for 2022 unprotected to the Knicks.

(04-02-2021, 10:27 AM)omahen Wrote: I totally agree with this. What I don't understand is why you think we can agree with others to sign a deal at 5:01 (obviously prepared in advance), while not do the same with Atlanta for Collins SnT. Indiana did it with Brogdon, for example. Negotiations have to be done before 5:01. If not, then I just hope Mavs run away from it, because it is nothing more than a pipedream.

(04-02-2021, 10:29 AM)Mavs2021 Wrote: No it has not. The Bulls have lost all three games since the trade. They are 1-7 over their last eight. If Duffy comes to them in the summer and says: Just a heads up, Lavine wants to play with Luka, he won´t sign an extension. You might want to talk to the Mavericks now or lose him for nothing next summer.

Mavs trade 2023 protected for 2022 unprotected to the Knicks. Throw in a Ntilikina S&T for Terry as an incentive, if necessary.

Then offer the Bulls Powell + Burke  + Kleber (at least one 1st round pick re-trade value), 2024, 2026, 2028 unprotected, plus 2025 + 2027 swaps. That´s up to 6-7 first round picks for a guy on an expiring contract that will leave in 12 months. If they say no, call the Wizards. One of them says YES.

You keep a 2023 1st round pick swap (converted into two seconds) and Green in your back-pocket to incentivise the Hawks not to match the offer.

There are ways to get two top players here this summer from a cap and asset POV (though then we are probably completely empty until 2028), but the Mavs biggest problem remains to convince FAs to actually play here.

(04-02-2021, 11:13 AM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: I find your 23 for 22 thing to be creative and more interesting than some of the other ideas I've seen for fixing the 23 issue.  Well done.

(04-02-2021, 11:34 AM)StrandedOnBeauboisHill Wrote: So is the idea that we're giving them our 2022 instead of the 2023?  We wouldn't be able to do that.

(04-02-2021, 10:22 AM)omahen Wrote: RFA has to agree to come to them.

(04-02-2021, 11:13 AM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: I find your 23 for 22 thing to be creative and more interesting than some of the other ideas I've seen for fixing the 23 issue.  Well done.

(04-02-2021, 11:30 AM)juanc Wrote: I get why Collins is so desired on this board, but let me ask you a few questions.

1. Is he the 3rd guy, that would make this team a contender?
2. Is he worth the max? What is he worth in your opinion?
3. Do you realy think that we need to add that 3rd star now?

(04-02-2021, 11:52 AM)khaled1987 Wrote: Why would the Knicks do that??? 
As I mentioned above, they have incentive to reject it.

A-It puts early expiry time on their asset: since they turned from a young team, into competitive one , they most likely view it as trade asset rather than a pick they will use, either way they better served waiting on it rather than being rushed one year earlier.

B-They would know we will then use our nrw flexibility for trades to improve the team, which is the opposite of what they want, the worse the Mavs, the better the pick for Knicks.

Unless we are sending extra asset, I really don't get the Knicks angle to accept such move.

(04-01-2021, 05:57 PM)StepBackJay Wrote: https://www.theringer.com/nba/2021/3/22/22343534/john-collins-atlanta-hawks-trade-deadline

So just revisiting this again. Hawks wanted a "high level" first round pick and/or young player and obviously didn't get that. Doesn't mean they won't get a first round pick or young player this summer. They said they intend to match all RFA offers which I believe. I don't think Mavs will make an RFA max offer and just try to call the Hawks' bluff. The Hawks aren't dumb they would match vs losing an asset for nothing.

Mavs do not have a first round pick but doesn't mean they couldn't get one. I think the Brogdan deal isn't a bad comp. Pacers gave up a first round pick and two seconds plus a 20 mil/yr contract in that S&T deal. Mavs have Brunson plus a few young players and I think Maxi could fetch a pick. At any rate I do expect Mavs to try to make a Collins deal happen. I bet this is their plan A. Casualties could include some combination of anyone outside of Luka, KP and I think DFS is a guy they want to hold onto.

(04-02-2021, 11:09 AM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: So, I'm trying something different this season.  Collins is a bum.  He hates dogs and children.  No way he comes here.

(04-02-2021, 11:30 AM)juanc Wrote: 1. Is he the 3rd guy, that would make this team a contender?
2. Is he worth the max? What is he worth in your opinion?
3. Do you realy think that we need to add that 3rd star now?

(04-02-2021, 12:29 PM)SleepingHero Wrote: I really like Collins.

I don't think he is worth anywhere close to blowing up the team. If we theoretically had to give them Brunson, trade away Maxi+DFS all to get Collins? Throw in multiple picks?