+- MavsBoard (https://www.mavsboard.com)
+-- Forum: Boards (https://www.mavsboard.com/forumdisplay.php?fid=1)
+--- Forum: Dallas Mavericks and the NBA (https://www.mavsboard.com/forumdisplay.php?fid=2)
+--- Thread: 2020-2021 ROSTER TALK: Archived (/showthread.php?tid=682)
Pages:
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
26
27
28
29
30
31
32
33
34
35
36
37
38
39
40
41
42
43
44
45
46
47
48
49
50
51
52
53
54
55
56
57
58
59
60
61
62
63
64
65
66
67
68
69
70
71
72
73
74
75
76
77
78
79
80
81
82
83
84
85
86
87
88
89
90
91
92
93
94
95
96
97
98
99
100
101
102
103
104
105
106
107
108
109
110
111
112
113
114
115
116
117
118
119
120
121
122
123
124
125
126
127
128
129
130
131
132
133
134
135
136
137
138
139
140
141
142
143
144
145
146
147
148
149
150
151
152
153
154
155
156
157
158
159
160
161
162
163
164
165
166
167
168
169
170
171
172
173
174
175
176
177
178
179
180
181
182
183
184
185
186
187
188
189
190
191
192
193
194
195
196
197
198
199
200
201
202
203
204
205
206
207
208
209
210
211
212
213
214
215
216
217
218
219
220
221
222
223
224
225
226
227
228
229
230
231
232
233
234
235
236
237
238
239
240
241
242
243
244
245
246
247
248
249
250
251
252
253
254
255
256
257
258
259
260
261
262
263
264
265
266
267
268
269
270
271
272
273
274
275
276
277
278
279
280
281
282
283
284
285
286
287
288
289
290
291
292
293
294
295
296
297
298
299
300
301
302
303
304
305
306
307
308
309
310
311
312
313
314
315
316
317
318
319
320
321
322
323
324
325
326
327
328
329
330
331
332
333
334
335
336
337
338
339
340
341
342
343
344
345
346
347
348
349
350
351
352
353
354
355
356
357
358
359
360
361
362
363
364
365
366
367
368
369
370
371
372
373
374
375
376
377
378
379
380
381
382
383
384
385
386
387
388
389
390
391
392
393
394
395
396
397
398
399
400
401
402
403
404
405
406
407
408
409
410
411
412
413
414
415
416
417
418
419
420
421
422
423
424
425
426
427
428
429
430
431
432
433
434
435
436
437
438
439
440
441
442
443
444
445
446
447
448
449
450
451
452
453
454
455
456
457
458
459
460
461
462
463
464
465
466
467
468
469
470
471
472
473
474
475
476
477
478
479
480
RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL with $25.7M - $37.3M in capspace this summer - StrandedOnBeauboisHill - 04-01-2021
(03-31-2021, 04:50 PM)StepBackJay Wrote: Meh they have lost value since then though. It remains to be seen if any of the guys we drafted can even rise to the value of the pick we used.
I don't understand this logic really. Wouldn't unused picks be unknowns as well? We have two 19 year olds that still have high upside, how different is that than an unused pick? Also, RJ Hampton fits that same bill and I would argue he was just the centerpiece of the biggest trade this deadline.
RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL with $25.7M - $37.3M in capspace this summer - StepBackJay - 04-01-2021
(04-01-2021, 11:24 AM)StrandedOnBeauboisHill Wrote: I don't understand this logic really. Wouldn't unused picks be unknowns as well? We have two 19 year olds that still have high upside, how different is that than an unused pick? Also, RJ Hampton fits that same bill and I would argue he was just the centerpiece of the biggest trade this deadline.
Unused picks don't take up salary cap space for one and they are whoever the GM wants them to be. They may not want a Josh Green or a Tyrell Terry especially once they see them not really contributing much.
RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL with $25.7M - $37.3M in capspace this summer - StepBackJay - 04-01-2021
So if Collins is the target I wonder if Mavs are going to rescind their TDL offer and just clear space to sign Collins to a max contract to see if the Hawks blink or use that as a way into forcing them into a negotiation?
Hawks know he is going to get maxed so they must be thinking they are either going to just sign him to that or try to get the best offer they can in a S&T.
RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL with $25.7M - $37.3M in capspace this summer - mvossman - 04-01-2021
(04-01-2021, 10:06 AM)jesusshuttlesworth82 Wrote: so is Bobby Marks right about $33.5 vs the $37.3 number?
I also wouldnt be surprised if they have a Powell deal as backup in case they can get Collins.
Collins max - $25 million
THJ - $16 - 18 million
bye bye JRich
That team is not good enough defensively to be contenders, has almost nobody who can play make other than Luka and has three max players with two of them stepping on each others toes. I think if you go this route, you need to trade KP for a defensive center and a play maker. Ideal would be for Turner/Brogdon.
RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL with $25.7M - $37.3M in capspace this summer - ItsGoTime - 04-01-2021
(04-01-2021, 12:08 PM)mvossman Wrote: That team is not good enough defensively to be contenders, has almost nobody who can play make other than Luka and has three max players with two of them stepping on each others toes. I think if you go this route, you need to trade KP for a defensive center and a play maker. Ideal would be for Turner/Brogdon.I really want Turner if we move on from KP, have I said that before? Turner/Brogdon would be a dream return! I'm pretty sure we'd need more than KP outgoing as far as impact players because it was said that IND is not looking for picks as much as players. KP/JB might move the needle for them, depends on what they see in JB.
RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL with $25.7M - $37.3M in capspace this summer - F Gump - 04-01-2021
(04-01-2021, 10:06 AM)jesusshuttlesworth82 Wrote: so is Bobby Marks right about $33.5 vs the $37.3 number?
I also wouldnt be surprised if they have a Powell deal as backup in case they can get Collins.
Collins max - $25 million
THJ - $16 - 18 million
bye bye JRich
Not sure what 37.3M number you are talking about.
If Marks has 33.5 (J Rich and WCS options declined, don't retain Bird rights holds on THJ, J Rich, WCS, Redick, Melli, Boban), I've probably misadded somehow because the numbers I've seen leaves about 34.38M in cap room. But no biggie, 33.5 vs 34.3 is not enough difference to change the possibilities.
Using the vast majority of that for a serious pursuit of a higher salary like Collins using cap room would almost certainly require moving Powell's salary to have room for other needed talent too (bumping them up to 44.5M to start), but it seems far-fetched to think they'd find a taker with no salary coming back. So a splashy move, if contemplated, likely envisions working over the cap and using the sign-and-trade mechanism rather than freeing cap room.
RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL with $25.7M - $37.3M in capspace this summer - jesusshuttlesworth82 - 04-01-2021
(04-01-2021, 12:08 PM)mvossman Wrote: That team is not good enough defensively to be contenders, has almost nobody who can play make other than Luka and has three max players with two of them stepping on each others toes.
Just guessing at this point but I think they’re still in acquire 3rd star mode. Figure out the missing pieces later when the Mavs are ready to truly contend.
KP trade can’t be ruled out either.
RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL with $25.7M - $37.3M in capspace this summer - StrandedOnBeauboisHill - 04-01-2021
(04-01-2021, 11:55 AM)StepBackJay Wrote: Unused picks don't take up salary cap space for one and they are whoever the GM wants them to be. They may not want a Josh Green or a Tyrell Terry especially once they see them not really contributing much.
That's fair on the first part, I just feel like there's still a lot of value in any upside player on rookie deals because of restricted free agency and any sort of blockbuster trade that involves young prospects for a veteran player usually doesn't have any cap space issues for the team taking on those young guys.
The second point is something that no one on this board knows. I would bet that Green is still seen has very valuable across the league from a prospect standpoint. RJ Hampton wasn't contributing either but someone saw value there and wanted to take a swing on him.
RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL with $25.7M - $37.3M in capspace this summer - StepBackJay - 04-01-2021
(04-01-2021, 12:46 PM)jesusshuttlesworth82 Wrote: Just guessing at this point but I think they’re still in acquire 3rd star mode. Figure out the missing pieces later when the Mavs are ready to truly contend.
I agree with this ^^. Also its possible they keep J Rich as a defensive piece or find another defensive piece somewhere. But ya priority would be get the third core player and then fill in around that. DFS I think is important to MBT as a glue piece including defensively.
RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL with $25.7M - $37.3M in capspace this summer - StepBackJay - 04-01-2021
(04-01-2021, 12:48 PM)StrandedOnBeauboisHill Wrote: That's fair on the first part, I just feel like there's still a lot of value in any upside player on rookie deals because of restricted free agency and any sort of blockbuster trade that involves young prospects for a veteran player usually doesn't have any cap space issues for the team taking on those young guys.
The second point is something that no one on this board knows. I would bet that Green is still seen has very valuable across the league from a prospect standpoint. RJ Hampton wasn't contributing either but someone saw value there and wanted to take a swing on him.
Ya its just an open question honestly and its going to vary per team. If Mavs had a future first that has value to virtually every team and moreso than Green who is a specific player with specific upside/flaws that takes up cap space.
RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL with $25.7M - $37.3M in capspace this summer - DanSchwartzgan - 04-01-2021
(04-01-2021, 12:30 PM)F Gump Wrote: Not sure what 37.3M number you are talking about.
If Marks has 33.5 (J Rich and WCS options declined, don't retain Bird rights holds on THJ, J Rich, WCS, Redick, Melli, Boban), I've probably misadded somehow because the numbers I've seen leaves about 34.38M in cap room. But no biggie, 33.5 vs 34.3 is not enough difference to change the possibilities.
Using the vast majority of that for a serious pursuit of a higher salary like Collins using cap room would almost certainly require moving Powell's salary to have room for other needed talent too (bumping them up to 44.5M to start), but it seems far-fetched to think they'd find a taker with no salary coming back. So a splashy move, if contemplated, likely envisions working over the cap and using the sign-and-trade mechanism rather than freeing cap room.
The $37.3mm is Kamm's number in the spreadsheet on page one of this thread. But, Kamm doesn't include cap holds.
I'm curious, what dollar amount are you using for the minimum holds for the slots on top of the nine returning players (KP, Powell, Luka, Maxi, DFS, Burke, Green, Brunson and Terry) and how many of those are you using? I'm at $33.5, but I'm not positive (after our recent conversation) that I have the right number of holds. I'm using $916,276 and I have four of them on top of the nine players.
One other place of possible confusion is Maxi's pay. Spotrac has $8.65mm plus $175k in likely bonuses or $8.825mm. Kamm is carrying him at $8.75mm. He actually has a shot at triggering another $150k for keeping his 3% above 40%.
RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL with $25.7M - $37.3M in capspace this summer - cow - 04-01-2021
What's everyone's gut on JRich opting out? I'm starting to think he will despite his play. Seems like the free agent pool is pretty shallow and there will be enough money out there for him to another long term deal. Considering the Mavericks recent recruiting history, I'd consider them a decent safety net.
RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL with $22.7M - $34.4M in capspace this summer - Kammrath - 04-01-2021
Made some changes....maybe this is more accurate:
![[Image: Screenshot-2021-04-01-3.55.56-PM.png]](http://stlukeskck.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/04/Screenshot-2021-04-01-3.55.56-PM.png)
RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL with $25.7M - $37.3M in capspace this summer - mvossman - 04-01-2021
(04-01-2021, 03:26 PM)cow Wrote: What's everyone's gut on JRich opting out? I'm starting to think he will despite his play. Seems like the free agent pool is pretty shallow and there will be enough money out there for him to another long term deal. Considering the Mavericks recent recruiting history, I'd consider them a decent safety net.
Based on your posts, I am guessing you are going to hate this, but I kind of like the idea of offering him an extension. I think the max we can offer him is something like 13? I think he has had a down year shooting, and had some lingering struggles with the whole Covid thing. He has been disappointing, but an extension at that price would be buying low.
RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL with $22.7M - $34.4M in capspace this summer - StepBackJay - 04-01-2021
If J Rich opts out (which I think he will) does his caphold this offseason become that 17 number?
RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL with $25.7M - $37.3M in capspace this summer - StepBackJay - 04-01-2021
(04-01-2021, 04:14 PM)mvossman Wrote: Based on your posts, I am guessing you are going to hate this, but I kind of like the idea of offering him an extension. I think the max we can offer him is something like 13? I think he has had a down year shooting, and had some lingering struggles with the whole Covid thing. He has been disappointing, but an extension at that price would be buying low.
While I think there is a chance he opts in I actually think its a low one just bc that 11 number is not high for a guy who's floor is still a top 7 rotation player on a lot of teams. That puts you in minimum MLE range which is so close to the opt-in number I don't see an advantage to him opting in. If he was making 18 mil or something like that then it would be an obvious opt-in situation (THJ had that this year).
There's little risk to him opting out. In Powell's situation I think his agent knew he was an MLE type player and so he was able to lock in a slightly above MLE deal through an extension. I believe J Rich will be in a better position despite his flaws as a player.
RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL with $22.7M - $34.4M in capspace this summer - mvossman - 04-01-2021
(04-01-2021, 04:15 PM)StepBackJay Wrote: If J Rich opts out (which I think he will) does his caphold this offseason become that 17 number?
Yes. Does not matter if we operate over the cap, but it does mean that we would have to renounce him and THJ to make a big offer with cap space. We lose bird rights at that point. Another reason to go for an extension.
RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL with $22.7M - $34.4M in capspace this summer - DanSchwartzgan - 04-01-2021
(04-01-2021, 04:15 PM)StepBackJay Wrote: If J Rich opts out (which I think he will) does his caphold this offseason become that 17 number?
That 17 number is the cap hold in 22. It is 150% of what he will be paid in 21 if he opts in. If he doesn't opt in, the real hold for 21 is 150% of the 20/21 number, which is $16,298,928.
As you and mvossman have said, it may or may not really matter. Just thought I'd clarify.
RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL with $22.7M - $34.4M in capspace this summer - StepBackJay - 04-01-2021
(04-01-2021, 04:26 PM)mvossman Wrote: Yes. Does not matter if we operate over the cap, but it does mean that we would have to renounce him and THJ to make a big offer with cap space. We lose bird rights at that point. Another reason to go for an extension.
Right but I think there's a chance the Mavs are going to do some combo of renouncing/trading perhaps to free up space for Collins. It remains to be seen. I could see them doing that and risking losing THJ/J Rich knowing that they can resign them or similar players or working out a trade for Collins.
RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL with $22.7M - $34.4M in capspace this summer - F Gump - 04-01-2021
(04-01-2021, 03:57 PM)Kammrath Wrote: Made some changes....maybe this is more accurate:
That looks like what I was calculating from, and the 9 players with contracts plus 3 empty slot holds, leaves about 34.4M in cap room.
That means you can sign the next 4 players to 34.4, minimum, minimum, minimum. Or you can move some of the 34.4 to pay more to the other 3 (instead of just the minimum) and less to the first guy.