(03-26-2021, 08:50 PM)StepBackJay Wrote: Just saying that's how MBT will operate.

(03-26-2021, 06:05 PM)Time Machine Dirk Wrote: Talen Horton-Tucker

(03-27-2021, 07:15 AM)omahen Wrote: If I elaborate what I started in the Mavs news thread. By operating over the cap, Mavs can have roughly 140 mil of salary in 2021/22 offseason, which is the hard cap limit. If they operate within the cap they can only have 112 mil+mini MLE+BaU, rougly 120 mil. So, I hope they will operate over the cap.

Let's assume Luka, KP, Maxi, DFS, Brunson, Green, Terry, Bey and Hinton are untouchable. Their total salaries will be roughly 67 mil. This means Mavs can sign another 73 mil salaries. Lets deduct MLE and Bau (roughly 13 mil), which leaves us with 60 mil to play with. A couple of vet min spots would be needed, so actual number would be a couple of mil lower, but I will not complicate. To bring 60 mil in we need to send (trade) 48 mil of salaries. Assuming JRich opts out, only Powell and Burke are under contract and we have team option on WCS - 17 mil together. Here bird rights and SnT come into play. JRich and THJ alone could cover the remaining 31 mil (difference between 48 mil needed and 17 mil of our tradeable contracts). If needed we can include Redick and Bobi into the math. It would be possible to construct one giant trade by just adding teams to it. Sort of stuff we have seen last offseason with a couple of those OKC deals. If we keep one of THJ/JRich and assuming he signs for 15 mil in his first year, we have 45 mil left to play with and we need 36 mil of outgoing salary. If we keep both and sign them for 30 mil combined, we still have 30 mil to play with and we need 24 mil of outgoing salary for that. Which starts to become difficult, as Powell WCS and Burke are only 17 mil of not very attractive salary and we would still need to SnT Redick and Bobi for the remaining 7 mil. 

Questions Mavs will need an answer to:
1. Where do JRich, THJ, Bobi, WCS and Redick want to go? If the team is over the cap - you work out SnT and get something back. Mavs have a bit of leverage in this case. If the team is under the cap, you work out SnT by likely paying them cash or minor asset for a favour, as they have all the leverage (they could just sign the guy). 
2. Which free agents want to come? If it is an UFA, we have a bit of a leverage (we can just sign him but we prefer SnT). Payment for a SnT favour shouldn't be very high and the UFA has all the power. If he says he will go, his current team doesn't have much choice. If it is a RFA, we need his team to play along. Which means overpay the player and compensate the team. So get the players to commit. 

Based on that there are a gazillion of possible scenarios. 60 mil of available salary can be enough for three very good players. Lets pipedream: Collins 30 mil and Holiday 30 mil. Collins 30 mil, Ball 22 mil and someone for 8 mil. Collins 30 mil, Schroeder 18 mil and OPJ 12 mil. Or we keep one of our guys and go Collins 30, THJ 18, OPJ 12. Ball 22, THJ 18, Porter 12. Endless possibilities. A lot of work to pull it off but not impossible. And it would likely cost most of our remaining draft capital.

But, it could end us (for example) with:
Luka, Brunson, Terry
THJ, Green
OPJ, DFS
Collins, Kleber
KP, MLE, Bau

(03-27-2021, 07:15 AM)omahen Wrote: If I elaborate what I started in the Mavs news thread. By operating over the cap, Mavs can have roughly 140 mil of salary in 2021/22 offseason, which is the hard cap limit. If they operate within the cap they can only have 112 mil+mini MLE+BaU, rougly 120 mil. So, I hope they will operate over the cap.

(03-27-2021, 07:38 AM)Chicagojk Wrote: The above scenario is very complicated and really difficult to pull off. 

(03-27-2021, 08:19 AM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: A better exercise might be to start with the 2022 hard cap ($146.7mm) and subtract Luka's extension (~$29mm).  Let's call that $117mm as you have to leave yourself some space.  While it is possible for them to go higher than this if they avoid specific behaviors in 2022, it is probably a pretty good guide.

There is currently $62mm committed to KP, DP, Maxi, Burke (PO), Green and Terry.  You might as well round to $64mm and include Bey.  Brunson and DFS are free in 22, so you either have to pay them or replace them.  What do you think?  $8mm each (remember, this is actual salary, not their cap hold since we are dealing with the apron, not cap space).  That leaves $37mm and here is what you have:

KP/Powell
Maxi/Bey
DFS/
Green/Burke
Luka/Brunson/Terry

Where do you want to spend your $37mm?  This probably isn't enough for Max Collins and THJ or JRich.  It probably isn't enough for JRich, THJ and Full MLE.  I get that everyone outside of Luka and KP is fungible.  But none of them are making big money.  If you subtract someone (other than MAYBE Powell), you'll pay just as much to replace them.  BTW, this is taking us up to the apron.  If you don't believe Cuban will pay the tax, reduce all numbers by $6 million.  Now, that is sobering.

(03-27-2021, 08:41 AM)omahen Wrote: Let us dream, man  I was assuming Mavs are way into tax in 2022, of course. I don't think there is any other way if one wants to seriously contend. As you said, hard cap can be avoided so 146 mil is not a limit. Look at competition - BKN at 165 mil, Philly 145 mil, Lakers and Clippers will be both likely well over 150 next season. If Cuban is not willing to compete with that, it doesn't really makes a lot of sense to dream.

(03-27-2021, 08:51 AM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: Sorry man.  If you didn't like this dose of cold water, just wait to you read what I wrote in the other thread while you were typing this.

In that post I did agree about the Hard Cap being...soft...as a limitation.  But, it requires near perfection in the summer of 21 to justify taking certain tools out of the too shed.  Fingers crossed.

(03-27-2021, 08:51 AM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: 4.  We'd be just asking to get Tyson Chandlered if we ask THJ and JRich to be patient while free agent money dries up and trust we are going to pull off TWO multi-team double S&T's.

(03-27-2021, 09:17 AM)Aussiebballer Wrote: The other thing you have to bear in mind is that players don’t just sit around waiting to help you out.
If a team gives a big offer to THJ or Richardson they are going to take it.
Not wait around just to help the Mavs do some sign and trades.

(03-27-2021, 07:15 AM)omahen Wrote: Luka, Brunson, Terry
THJ, Green
OPJ, DFS
Collins, Kleber
KP, MLE, Bau

(03-27-2021, 09:25 AM)omahen Wrote: Perfectly aware of that. First of all most of negotiating should be done before FA opens. As it happened in previous years. NBA might try to change that, but I don't believe it really is possible. So, when you know where the player wants to go, you offer the team a second rounder to do a SnT instead of just signing them in the cap space. Same stuff Boston did with Hayward. And Charlotte and Hayward had no problem waiting a couple of days for Boston to explore options. They are in full control. You can sign the other to a contract on day 1. You are operating over the cap, so you don't need the cap space.

(03-27-2021, 11:13 AM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: I'm not sure the Hayward deal is a great example of what you are talking about in some of your more complex examples (and don't take this as me arguing with you, I'm a fan of the direction you are headed).  Charlotte had the agreement with Hayward.  He was unrestricted and they didn't need Boston to do anything.  Charlotte had space.  So, there are a lot of elements that are different than the situation with RFA Collins and getting THJ (and probably a third team) to wait for you. 

(03-27-2021, 11:13 AM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: Atlanta might not be a willing participant in our game and probably doesn't need JRich or THJ. 

(03-27-2021, 11:13 AM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: wonder if Markkanen is more realistic than Collins.  Atlanta might not be a willing participant in our game and probably doesn't need JRich or THJ.  But, I think the Vucevic trade marginalizes the value of Markkanen.  Patrick Williams is probably the future of the position and Chicago could actually use what THJ does.  They could also use some PG help, but they traded their pick (top 4 protected) and there is probably an Omahen-lite in Chicago making the same "over-the-cap" argument for the Bulls as you are making for Dallas.  THJ at $15mm plus Brunson for Markkanen at about $20mm?  You'd have to give up THJ to have space for Markkanen anyway.  The casualty to control the situation is Brunson, who may flee in a year and cause LT/Hard Cap issues in 22 if he stays.

(03-27-2021, 11:29 AM)omahen Wrote: 2) Atlanta has to be satisfied with a modest compensation instead of paying max to Collins. 

(03-27-2021, 12:39 PM)ItsGoTime Wrote: This is what might be a bit tough to do, or expensive. I imagine they wouldn't laugh at Maxi+ in that situation, which is what possibly that offer this TDL was gauging.

(03-27-2021, 12:45 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: Imo, the difficult part to envision is the Mavs believing Collins is worth X amount of money and the Hawks believing he's NOT. Getting over that hurdle basically means ATL has decided he's gone, so if/when reality gets THERE, Kleber is actually a GOOD return for them, imo. In that scenario, they're not getting him as a return for Collins, they're getting him as a courtesy payment for helping Collins get to where he wants to be.