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2020-2021 ROSTER TALK: Archived - Printable Version

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RE: ROSTER TALK: Mar 25 TDL | DAL has had interest in Aaron Gordon since Nov - DanSchwartzgan - 03-21-2021

(03-21-2021, 10:43 AM)dynamicalVoid Wrote: JRich all around seems to be the better player and provides emotional spark with his hustle plays.  Am I wrong on this?  Or...is he just sloppy with the small details?

I think a strong replacement for either DFS or JRich makes the other more workable.  But, something has to give between those two and Maxi or we will always be hamstrung in late game situations.

The questions I'd like answered is whether the JRich is a victim of his circumstance and whether peak JRich is good enough.  In 8 games in March, JRich is averaging almost exactly the same PPG, APG and RPG as he did in 12 games in February while shooting a slightly worse TS% and FG% (but his 3% is up to .342 from .328).  HOWEVER, the D-Rating in March is 112 (down from 120) and his +/- is +0.8 vs. -5.9.  Unfortunately that doesn't prove anything as almost everyone's D-Rating has improved dramatically in March.  

I don't think 13/3/3 .342 with a 112 D-Rating JRich is good enough.  Yes, clearly DFS is worse than that.  But, DFS is under contract and cheaper.  JRich plays a position that is easier to replace.  I'm not saying JRich has to go.  I'm saying I'm more attuned to trade proposals involving guards than I once was.


(03-21-2021, 11:29 AM)omahen Wrote: I listened to that Cato podcast and I agree with the discussion - there are a couple of guys we are just asking to do too much. Insert one guy in between and move them a spot lower and everything might start working well. Assuming we just upgrade JRich with a better player, lets say this is Ball. I don't think it would be enough as we would still be asking DFS and Kleber to do too much. I claim an upgrade in this case would be marginal. Unless you are bringing in a star, replacing one of the guys with a (slightly) better one is not a solution. That's why I firmly believe the solution is to add another guy to the rotation.  

The other hole we have is at big wing so that represents the other possible way to upgrade for me. Same way - keep the seven rotation guys and add another big wing in the rotation, reducing both Kleber and DFS minutes (but still keep them in the rotation). Collins pipedream, Gordon, OPJ and Young were often mentioned candidates who could fill that spot. 

To conclude - spending assets (this includes cap space) to replace one of the existing 7 rotation guys will bring a marginal improvement and further limit our possibility to really upgrade the team in the long term. We need to add another capable guy to the rotation.

O, in theory that makes good sense.  The question is what level player can you get for Johnson/rookies/far off pick(s).  Can you get a better player if you add JRich (or DFS) to the deal?  What is the spread between the player you get from a Johnson-plus based deal and a JRich/Johnson-plus based deal.  I think you'd have to know that answer.  IF all we are getting is another replacement level guy, I'm not interested.  If Toronto or NO are interested in JRich for either Lowry or Lonzo, I probably say yes.  Neither of those guys is a possibility this summer without giving up some of our current top seven.

RE: ROSTER TALK: Mar 25 TDL | DAL has had interest in Aaron Gordon since Nov - ClutchDirk - 03-21-2021

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2937354-heat-rumors-kyle-lowry-trade-coveted-miami-high-on-lamarcus-aldridges-list

RE: ROSTER TALK: Mar 25 TDL | DAL has had interest in Aaron Gordon since Nov - ClutchDirk - 03-21-2021

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2937352-nba-trade-rumors-raptors-norman-powell-really-emerged-amid-kyle-lowry-buzz

RE: ROSTER TALK: Mar 25 TDL | DAL has had interest in Aaron Gordon since Nov - ClutchDirk - 03-21-2021

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2937349-aaron-gordon-trade-rumors-magics-asking-price-for-star-revealed

ESPN's Brian Windhorst broke down the situation on SportsCenter:

"Aaron Gordon is the name I'm hearing most often as the top guy out there. A number of teams have contacted the Magic with offers and their ask is pretty high here. They're looking for multiple first-round picks or a first-round pick and another young player. It's not 100 percent certain that Gordon is going to get moved, they could move him this summer, but keep an eye on this guy because he could make a difference for some teams. With one year left on his contract too, he would also be in line for maybe getting a contract extension if he gets traded."

RE: ROSTER TALK: Mar 25 TDL | DAL has had interest in Aaron Gordon since Nov - Jason Terry - 03-21-2021

(03-21-2021, 11:33 AM)omahen Wrote: I think it is just a matter of perception. People expected JRich to be a little short of a superstar guy, scoring 20 points per game and playing excellent defense. To be honest, I also though he will be much better offensively than he is. So, in this regard JRich is a dissapointment and in need of an upgrade for that star 20 ppg defender.

However, if you disregard expectations and salary, JRich is better than DFS. I think both are very good players to have around and I would like to keep both. But, unfortunately, Mavs need more to come to that contender status.
A 20 ppg defender = max superstar that costs 3 FRP’s. The Jrue Holidays of the world that there’s maybe 1 or 2 available in an offseason. It’s unrealistic to think J Rich needed to be that. Same for DFS. Want to upgrade those guys without sacrificing defense? Prepare to pay max and 3 FRP’s(which we don’t have). If we sacrifice defense we are definitely not winning a championship(source: Lakers championship still shows D trumps O when it matters most). We don’t even have enough D as it is 

The whole entire league is looking for perimeter defenders who can score. You cannot have enough of them. 

We can’t miss on the next major trade. Until then we should make do with what we have and add on the fringes

RE: ROSTER TALK: Mar 25 TDL | DAL has had interest in Aaron Gordon since Nov - Jason Terry - 03-21-2021

Late game situations......KP needs to step up. We pay him max. He and Luka should be the majority of the offense late in games. Everyone else playing defense. So if KP is not a max level defender then he must be a max level scorer late in games? Right? A max level scorer should be able to ISO score AT WILL late in games. Is he that?

IMO, no major changes at all until it’s crystal clear 1) what do we have? 2). What are the Luka/KP roles? 3) Did we shoot ourselves in the foot?

RE: ROSTER TALK: Mar 25 TDL | DAL has had interest in Aaron Gordon since Nov - ItsGoTime - 03-21-2021

(03-21-2021, 11:29 AM)omahen Wrote: To conclude - spending assets (this includes cap space) to replace one of the existing 7 rotation guys will bring a marginal improvement and further limit our possibility to really upgrade the team in the long term. We need to add another capable guy to the rotation.
Great post (Dan's too) and applies to my thought process as well. I'd say this last bit has a caveat IMO. 


Knowing that Maxi and DFS are the limitations being asked to do too much, if you had to use them to get the upgrade at their spot, I think that is a much better option than using JRich like you said. 

I see our endgame/contender (9 man playoff rotation) team looks like this:

Luka/JB
JRich/THJ
Player/DFS
Player/Maxi
KP/Maxi

It would be better to cut that down to an 8 man rotation, with Maxi and JB kinda needing to be replaced with roughly the same ability players if they are the ones outgoing. I think THJ and DFS are the easiest to replace to get an upgrade in one of the 2 "Player" spots. Easiest in the sense that their positions aren't relied upon as much as JB and Maxi's are (JB being the quarterback while Luka isn't in and Maxi being the best KP injury insurance we have currently on roster).

I myself would prefer seeing JRich on the team WITH the 2 "Player" spots filled (as well as at least another year of continuity with the majority of our team going forward) to get the most accurate gauge on him as a player, then if he's not a fit and still can't put it together on offense, looking for an upgrade to him becomes priority. I also have a running theory that I wouldn't mind seeing played out (not that I need this to happen and if there is a BIG upgrade that requires JRich, I'm happy to part with him), that I think the longer JRich is on your team, the better player he becomes.

RE: ROSTER TALK: Mar 25 TDL | DAL has had interest in Aaron Gordon since Nov - mvossman - 03-21-2021

(03-21-2021, 09:29 AM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: JRich provides Elite Defensive reputation, though the D is actually better when he sits (same is true with DFS).  But, JRich kills us on Shot Creation and Perimeter Shooting at a position that should provide both.  He's the 79th rated SG by RPM.  If you look at the list of guards who make positive contributions compared to Power Wings, it would be much easier to find an upgrade for JRich than an upgrade for DFS.   So, I'm starting to take notice more of the rumors around Lonzo, Lowry, Fournier, Hill and Graham.

I think this is too small a sample for something like RPM, especially when it includes a period of struggle with the whole Covid thing.  The second half of the season will probably be a better gauge of what he is as a player and how he fits with the team.  Most likely he will be a 15 a game scorer with a 3 point shot that will regress to roughly league average and provide very good perimeter defense.  He has been a quality starter on good teams for most of his career, and he will probably be the same here.  That is something we desperately need.  I am skeptical you will be able to trade him (at a point of his lowest value) for something that will work out better.

RE: ROSTER TALK: Mar 25 TDL | DAL has had interest in Aaron Gordon since Nov - F Gump - 03-21-2021

(03-21-2021, 12:31 PM)ClutchDirk Wrote: ESPN's Brian Windhorst broke down the situation on SportsCenter:

" With one year left on his contract too, he would also be in line for maybe getting a contract extension if he gets traded."

Maybe desirable to do, and maybe it would happen later, but not as part of a trade. He's not eligible until free agency begins.

RE: ROSTER TALK: Mar 25 TDL | DAL has had interest in Aaron Gordon since Nov - SkenfromLMF - 03-21-2021

On off is a terrible stat to look at Richardson's defense. He will struggle in that category because he is primarily matched vs the best guard the opposition can muster. Against Portland he was on The floor vs Dame all night and that will make your on-off look worse than the players left on the floor when you leave. They aren't guarding Dame-Time...

RE: ROSTER TALK: Mar 25 TDL | DAL has had interest in Aaron Gordon since Nov - DanSchwartzgan - 03-21-2021

Two Mav mentions from Kevin O'Connor.  Both involve Schwartz clients:

Dallas is interested in Collins

Dallas has had talks with Cleveland regarding Drummond.


https://www.theringer.com/nba/2021/3/21/22343488/nba-trade-deadline-rumors-kyle-lowry-lonzo-ball-john-collins

RE: ROSTER TALK: Mar 25 TDL | DAL has had interest in Aaron Gordon since Nov - cow - 03-21-2021

(03-21-2021, 06:46 PM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: Two Mav mentions from Kevin O'Connor.  Both involve Schwartz clients:

Dallas is interested in Collins

Dallas has had talks with Cleveland regarding Drummond.


https://www.theringer.com/nba/2021/3/21/22343488/nba-trade-deadline-rumors-kyle-lowry-lonzo-ball-john-collins

I don't suppose Johnson + Powell + two 2nds would work for Celveland?

RE: ROSTER TALK: Mar 25 TDL | DAL has had interest in Aaron Gordon since Nov - Kammrath - 03-21-2021

(03-21-2021, 06:10 PM)SkenfromLMF Wrote: On off is a terrible stat to look at Richardson's defense. He will struggle in that category because he is primarily matched vs the best guard the opposition can muster. Against Portland he was on The floor vs Dame all night and that will make your on-off look worse than the players left on the floor when you leave. They aren't guarding Dame-Time...


There is SOME truth to this...but the reality is also that GOOD defenders can at least slow down stars enough to keep their teams in the game. JR has not done that so far this year. But he is adjusting to a new system and teammates so it also isn't fair to totally blame him and say he cannot improve. But he has massively underperformed defensively this year.

RE: ROSTER TALK: Mar 25 TDL | DAL has had interest in Aaron Gordon since Nov - Kammrath - 03-21-2021

(03-21-2021, 06:46 PM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: Dallas is interested in Collins

[Image: giphy.gif]

RE: ROSTER TALK: Mar 25 TDL | DAL has had interest in Aaron Gordon since Nov - F Gump - 03-21-2021

(03-21-2021, 06:46 PM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: Dallas has had talks with Cleveland regarding Drummond.

This feels to me like CLE-generated info, trying to drum up trade offers to beat a supposed Mav pursuit. It feels like a Johnson-Powell package is the best the Mavs would offer for Drummond (if they want to rid of Powell) and maybe even exceeds their top offer (if they don't).

RE: ROSTER TALK: Mar 25 TDL | DAL has had interest in Aaron Gordon since Nov - cow - 03-21-2021

(03-21-2021, 07:22 PM)Kammrath Wrote: [Image: giphy.gif]


[Image: 200.gif]

RE: ROSTER TALK: Mar 25 TDL | DAL has had interest in Aaron Gordon since Nov - TXBamanut - 03-21-2021

I would love Collins here or Gordon, but I really dont see either here.  Contrary to what some writers are writing, I don't see the Drummond fit working either.

RE: ROSTER TALK: Mar 25 TDL | DAL interested in John Collins - Kammrath - 03-21-2021

(03-21-2021, 06:46 PM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: Dallas is interested in Collins


If Collins is as available as it seems I think the Mavs should genuinely go "all in" right now. I think there are too many benefits to getting him through a trade now and having his rights rather than clearing space to chase him in the summer. Unless they think a sign and trade in the summer is more viable.

RE: ROSTER TALK: Mar 25 TDL | DAL interested in John Collins - Hypermav - 03-21-2021

Travis Schlenk may be our honorary MBT if he lets us have Collins for a semi reasonable deal.

RE: ROSTER TALK: Mar 25 TDL | DAL interested in John Collins - Chicagojk - 03-21-2021

I don't particularly like the fit with Drummond here.   And I also believe he is sort of a silly player and one who you may not be able to trust in big moments.  With that being said, I am growing more and more in favor of rolling the dice with him.   I am really tired of seeing three pointers go up and we have no one near the lane.  Same thing when we get penetration and no one is putting pressure on the other team for a rebound.   Could Drummond give us 3-4 extra second chances per game?   If so, that could be a valuable add.   

I also want someone who does the Boban thing of running to the rim and trying to get easy buckets at the rim on secondary offense.   Right now besides the cameo appearance by Boban, no one else is even a threat to do this.

My problem is, for what I want to give up for Drummond, it may be better for Cleveland to release him if they can't find another offer. I wouldn't want to give up Green or Terry.