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+--- Thread: 2020-2021 ROSTER TALK: Archived (/showthread.php?tid=682)
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RE: ROSTER TALK: Mar 25 TDL | DAL has had interest in Aaron Gordon since Nov - StepBackJay - 03-20-2021
(03-20-2021, 02:53 PM)Kammrath Wrote: I see JR and JG both as assets...I am not interested in giving up either for Lowry. If James Johnson is all I give up, then fine. But no on JR and JG for me.
JR isn't an asset to me because he is basically expiring (PO likely to get exercised). If we like him so much we can resign him in a few months.
Green is a questionable asset but I still wouldn't give him up for an expiring player, as much as I like Lowry. If Mavs did a deal like that it would basically be an admission they already think JG is a bust.
RE: ROSTER TALK: Mar 25 TDL | DAL has had interest in Aaron Gordon since Nov - cjeter24 - 03-20-2021
In regards to Lowry and AG...
You don't give up your rookie 1st rounder for a 35 year old guy who can walk in a few months or you could just sign this summer. It's bad asset management and a delusional move to think he puts us in a spot to be a contender this year which is the only logical reason you make that move.
I'm an AG fan and believe he'd excel here. He's an incredibly mediocre player. He's not worth a 1st rounder much less one and a young player.
I'm in on AG for cheap but that's not cheap. That exhausts your assets. If you want to try him as a reclamation project, sign him next summer when he's an UFA.
I'm personally not willing to trade assets for any non star player that is going to be an UFA the next 2 offseasons. We are so limited in assets, you can't waste them.
Now if unloading Powell and creating some more cap space is involved in a move, I'm a bit more open to it. We can land quality NBA players at 11 mill in FA. That's a huge upgrade over Powell lol.
RE: ROSTER TALK: Mar 25 TDL | DAL has had interest in Aaron Gordon since Nov - KillerLeft - 03-20-2021
(03-20-2021, 03:02 PM)StepBackJay Wrote: I want Mavs to have a 2nd guy besides Luka I can trust with 5 minutes to go.
I want that, too...in 2-3 years, when it actually matters. Anything between now and then is just preparation. There is some value in a having a guy like Lowry around to speed up Luka's maturation, but at this point the team is so far along with the "give him the reins and get out of the way" approach that I wonder if a veteran ball-handler is the best way to help.
RE: ROSTER TALK: Mar 25 TDL | DAL has had interest in Aaron Gordon since Nov - StepBackJay - 03-20-2021
(03-20-2021, 03:19 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: I want that, too...in 2-3 years, when it actually matters. Anything between now and then is just preparation. There is some value in a having a guy like Lowry around to speed up Luka's maturation, but at this point the team is so far along with the "give him the reins and get out of the way" approach that I wonder if a veteran ball-handler is the best way to help.
I don't want to be mediocre for 2-3 years.
RE: ROSTER TALK: Mar 25 TDL | DAL has had interest in Aaron Gordon since Nov - KillerLeft - 03-20-2021
(03-20-2021, 03:26 PM)StepBackJay Wrote: I don't want to be mediocre for 2-3 years.
Well, that's the thing. It depends on your definition of "mediocre" I suppose, but I'm not sure you have much of a choice.
If you're building around a 22 year old and planning for him to have the ball in his hands, there's a maturation process that you simply can't get around. It takes time for him to learn how to play to the strengths of others. Hell, it takes time to find the others in the first place. He has elevated the franchise this far just from sheer talent, but it's unreasonable to expect them to actually contend until more experience is gained, imo.
We are waiting in line, just like at six flags.
RE: ROSTER TALK: Mar 25 TDL | DAL has had interest in Aaron Gordon since Nov - dirkfansince1998 - 03-20-2021
Mavs aren´t at the point where a veteran floor general like Lowry makes sense. Mavs still need to add/develop more talent before it makes sense to use the remaining assets for a win now move.
I think Lowry wants to join a real contender and even with him on the roster the Mavs probably aren´t good enough to compete with both LA teams, Utah, 76ers, Bucks and Nets.
RE: ROSTER TALK: Mar 25 TDL | DAL has had interest in Aaron Gordon since Nov - StepBackJay - 03-20-2021
(03-20-2021, 03:29 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: Well, that's the thing. It depends on your definition of "mediocre" I suppose, but I'm not sure you have much of a choice.
If you're building around a 22 year old and planning for him to have the ball in his hands, there's a maturation process that you simply can't get around. It takes time for him to learn how to play to the strengths of others. Hell, it takes time to find the others in the first place. He has elevated the franchise this far just from sheer talent, but it's unreasonable to expect them to actually contend until more experience is gained, imo.
We are waiting in line, just like at six flags.
I don't see why this is not a win-now team. Luka plays at an MVP level so why can't you build a winning team right now? Lebron just twisted the sh*t out of his ankle. Stuff happens. KP should be playing better, maybe he will maybe he won't. I don't like this plan powder game we keep playing.
I am not advocating giving away the store at the TDL. I am just generally frustrated that this FO, since KP was traded (which I still like) gave away Barnes for nothing and hasn't signed anybody except Curry who they then traded for expiring J Rich. That and some rookies that don't play. Mavs could have made a big move this summer with those picks but decided to nibble around the edges bc Giannis was just around the corner. Oh well.
RE: ROSTER TALK: Mar 25 TDL | DAL has had interest in Aaron Gordon since Nov - omahen - 03-20-2021
(03-20-2021, 03:37 PM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: Mavs aren´t at the point where a veteran floor general like Lowry makes sense. Mavs still need to add/develop more talent before it makes sense to use the remaining assets for a win now move.
I think Lowry wants to join a real contender and even with him on the roster the Mavs probably aren´t good enough to compete with both LA teams, Utah, 76ers, Bucks and Nets.
Look what Paul did to Phoenix. I think Mavs are two solid pieces away from being really good.
RE: ROSTER TALK: Mar 25 TDL | DAL has had interest in Aaron Gordon since Nov - StepBackJay - 03-20-2021
(03-20-2021, 03:37 PM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: Mavs aren´t at the point where a veteran floor general like Lowry makes sense. Mavs still need to add/develop more talent before it makes sense to use the remaining assets for a win now move.
I think Lowry wants to join a real contender and even with him on the roster the Mavs probably aren´t good enough to compete with both LA teams, Utah, 76ers, Bucks and Nets.
The Suns could have had that attitude but they got CP3, now they are the 3 seed. They gave Crowder a multi-year deal that seems very movable to me. Will they win the championship? Probably not, but I'd rather have an aggressive FO like that. they didn't really give up much for CP3, basically contracts and a first round pick. They aren't waiting on some big FA to come save them like the Mavs.
RE: ROSTER TALK: Mar 25 TDL | DAL has had interest in Aaron Gordon since Nov - dirkfansince1998 - 03-20-2021
(03-20-2021, 03:29 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: Well, that's the thing. It depends on your definition of "mediocre" I suppose, but I'm not sure you have much of a choice.
If you're building around a 22 year old and planning for him to have the ball in his hands, there's a maturation process that you simply can't get around. It takes time for him to learn how to play to the strengths of others. Hell, it takes time to find the others in the first place. He has elevated the franchise this far just from sheer talent, but it's unreasonable to expect them to actually contend until more experience is gained, imo.
We are waiting in line, just like at six flags.
I think Cuban´s short cut approach and the success of the Dirk era really changed the perspective of most Mavs fans. I would prefer a more steady approach instead of the rushed rebuild of the last 3-5 years. Just not the most popular approach because fans and the media judge every single move based on win-now impact.
RE: ROSTER TALK: Mar 25 TDL | DAL has had interest in Aaron Gordon since Nov - Mavs2021 - 03-20-2021
(03-20-2021, 03:37 PM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: Mavs aren´t at the point where a veteran floor general like Lowry makes sense. Mavs still need to add/develop more talent before it makes sense to use the remaining assets for a win now move.
I think Lowry wants to join a real contender and even with him on the roster the Mavs probably aren´t good enough to compete with both LA teams, Utah, 76ers, Bucks and Nets.
And you trust the MBT to find such players after they just picked a guy 18th that looks like the Australian Santam Singh compared to the five guys picked around him. Look at this list Stewart, Pokusevski, Green, Bey, Achiuwa, Maxey.
RE: ROSTER TALK: Mar 25 TDL | DAL has had interest in Aaron Gordon since Nov - dirkfansince1998 - 03-20-2021
(03-20-2021, 03:42 PM)StepBackJay Wrote: The Suns could have had that attitude but they got CP3, now they are the 3 seed. They gave Crowder a multi-year deal that seems very movable to me. Will they win the championship? Probably not, but I'd rather have an aggressive FO like that. they didn't really give up much for CP3, basically contracts and a first round pick. They aren't waiting on some big FA to come save them like the Mavs.
I am against any free agency pipe dreams. Just not going to happen. The difference between the Suns and the Mavs is pretty obvious. They had and still have more assets. They could afford to give up a pick for CP3. They have more young talent and more picks. Suns did not rush the rebuild.
Mavs on the other hand have two tradeable 1sts (if they lift the restrictions on the 2025 1st). Luka and KP won´t be traded. Ignoring both Brunson is probably the most valuable asset and most posters want to keep him.
RE: ROSTER TALK: Mar 25 TDL | DAL has had interest in Aaron Gordon since Nov - KillerLeft - 03-20-2021
(03-20-2021, 03:39 PM)omahen Wrote: Look what Paul did to Phoenix. I think Mavs are two solid pieces away from being really good.
I think they are two solid pieces away from having a really good roster. Given the youth of the core, and especially the team’s best player, I think some time playing together will be necessary before we can call them a really good team. My opinion.
RE: ROSTER TALK: Mar 25 TDL | DAL has had interest in Aaron Gordon since Nov - dirkfansince1998 - 03-20-2021
(03-20-2021, 03:52 PM)Mavs2021 Wrote: And you trust the MBT to find such players after they just picked a guy 18th that looks like the Australian Santam Singh compared to the five guys picked around him. Look at this list Stewart, Pokusevski, Green, Bey, Achiuwa, Maxey.
Absolutely not. I was all in on Stewart and Bey and if you take a look at other threads you would notice that I am still complaining about the draft. Thing is that we cannot change the past. KP is on the roster and we cannot undo the trade. Mavs drafted Green and Terry. Traded Curry for Richardson. A premature win now move won´t change that.
RE: ROSTER TALK: Mar 25 TDL | DAL has had interest in Aaron Gordon since Nov - cow - 03-20-2021
(03-20-2021, 03:39 PM)omahen Wrote: Look what Paul did to Phoenix. I think Mavs are two solid pieces away from being really good.
For a rebuild you probably want to spend 4-6 years drafting and hoping you hit on two studs that can be your foundation (Gobert/Mitchell, Tatum/Brown, Booker/Ayton, Dame/CJ, etc.) and then use assets in trade or cap space in free agency to make a contender. Mavs skipped the foundation building. Luka cost them an additional FRP and then they tried to shortcut the process with the KP trade which cost them two future FRPs, the previous years #9 pick and had to take on the terrible contracts of Lee and THJ. The problem with our approach is that if we missed on the KP evaluation, you really don't have a lot of wiggle room to improve the roster, especially when you can't attract free agents.
RE: ROSTER TALK: Mar 25 TDL | DAL has had interest in Aaron Gordon since Nov - omahen - 03-20-2021
KP trade was awesome, I would repeat it 100 times out of 100. As a plus it turned out that THJ contract actually isn't all that bad, he is actually a very solid player. There is no turning back from this point. Mavs have a very solid base of 7 players. I don't believe our picks/rookies and expiring contracts aren't enough to add one piece in the starting lineup. Then add the second piece with MLE. The art of course is to nail those final two pieces of the puzzle.
RE: ROSTER TALK: Mar 25 TDL | DAL has had interest in Aaron Gordon since Nov - cow - 03-20-2021
(03-20-2021, 04:18 PM)omahen Wrote: KP trade was awesome, I would repeat it 100 times out of 100. As a plus it turned out that THJ contract actually isn't all that bad, he is actually a very solid player. There is no turning back from this point. Mavs have a very solid base of 7 players. I don't believe our picks/rookies and expiring contracts aren't enough to add one piece in the starting lineup. Then add the second piece with MLE. The art of course is to nail those final two pieces of the puzzle.
I think everyone was on board with the KP trade. It is easy to question it now that there are seemingly issues but he was expensive and there are issues. I'm struggling to come up with the solid base of 7 players.
-Luka: exceeding expectations
-KP: below expectations. Has shown flashes. Often looks like he doesn't belong. Fear of injuries in the back of everyone's mind.
-Brunson: exceeding expectations
-Maxi: exceeding expectations, yes he has limitations when trying to dribble the ball and rebound but he's become a dead eye 3PT shooter and is a good, versatile defender.
-THJ: has regressed this year. He used to be a guy that would show up every other game but his trend this year is every 3rd or 4th game. I don't think anyone on the team plays as hard as he does.
-JRich: below expectations. He plays great every third game.
-DFS: at expectations given his contract. He's a good, versatile defender who's 3PT shot has abounded him. Please don't dribble.
-Powell: below expectations. Sets good screens. Our strongest (physically defender). Doesn't give you much else.
-Burke: below expectations. He's had like three good games. Doesn't get consistent minutes.
-WCS: Looks great every 6th or 7th game. Has a lot of JaVale McGee in him. Hands like feet. No strength.
-James Johnson: Did we have expectations? Handles the ball okay. Can play one on one defense against the like of LeBron fairly well.
-Boban: His historic efficiency has regressed. Has 19 DNPs and 10 other games with 5 minutes or less.
-Iwundu: Doesn't play. Has had two or three nice games.
-Rookies: Don't play
Luka, Maxi, Jalen and KP are the foundation and even then, KP has a lot of question marks. DFS gets you to #5 and he's fine as an end of the rotation guy. THJ and JRich could be gone next year and that's probably okay given their consistency issues.
To get to that additional starting piece you are going to cost yourself Jalen or Maxi and a future first and a future first means you owe three again and are yet again handcuffed in regards to flexibility. Donnie and Mark have shown how great they are with free agent recruiting.
RE: ROSTER TALK: Mar 25 TDL | DAL has had interest in Aaron Gordon since Nov - Tyler - 03-20-2021
https://twitter.com/CallieCaplan/status/1373402129218609156
https://twitter.com/dalton_trigg/status/1373388060285603848
RE: ROSTER TALK: Mar 25 TDL | DAL has had interest in Aaron Gordon since Nov - omahen - 03-20-2021
(03-20-2021, 04:51 PM)cow Wrote: -THJ: has regressed this year.
He is actually more efficient and is scoring a bit more points than last season. So not really sure what your statement is based on.
Luka, KP, JRich, THJ, Brunson, Kleber, DFS is the 7 guys rotation. The rest are barely playing. I don't mind spending every asset apart from those 7 on that next guy. In theory this means 2 rookies, 2 FRP, second rounders and a bunch of expiring contracts. That should put us in a conversation for a solid starter.
RE: ROSTER TALK: Mar 25 TDL | DAL has had interest in Aaron Gordon since Nov - cow - 03-20-2021
(03-20-2021, 05:46 PM)omahen Wrote: He is actually more efficient and is scoring a bit more points than last season. So not really sure what your statement is based on.
Consistency. Maybe read the sentence after the one you quoted? That might help understand what I mean.
Spending future FRPs at this point is foolish. A lot can change 5 and 7 years from now. Everything beyond those 7 (and even a good chunk of those 7) have very little value.