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+--- Thread: 2020-2021 ROSTER TALK: Archived (/showthread.php?tid=682)
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RE: ROSTER TALK: Trade/FA Ideas (Mar 25 TDL?) + Salary Chart - Branduil - 12-16-2020
I am curious what Orlando would actually want/expect for Gordon. If they plan on signing Isaac long-term it's hard to see the fit for him.
RE: ROSTER TALK: Trade/FA Ideas (Mar 25 TDL?) + Salary Chart - aguiar95 - 12-16-2020
Right now our biggest need s to feel that PF position. RFA are very hard, UFA doesn't have anyone that blows me away, so I'd re-sign J-Rich and look for trades. I love our roster so I wouldn't want to involve anyone besides expirings (unless things go bad). Realistically these are the names I stumbled upon:
- OPJ (CHI) and Griffin (DET): Both don't fit the rebuild their team are going and are kind of injury prone.
Both could probably be obtainable at the TDL for expirings (THJ/Johnson) and 2nd rounders. To me they are worth a shot to see if they can get back to thier former selves. Playing with Luka and co. should put them in a confortable situation to do so.
RE: ROSTER TALK: Trade/FA Ideas (Mar 25 TDL?) + Salary Chart - ItsGoTime - 12-16-2020
OPJ is not a full time PF. He is 6'8" 200 lbs. DFS is 6'7" 220 lbs and we're talking about him not being the full time PF. Please stop projecting him in this way.
RE: ROSTER TALK: Trade/FA Ideas (Mar 25 TDL?) + Salary Chart - Mavs03 - 12-16-2020
I know many people have mentioned his name before but what are your thoughts on Buddy Hield? He's 6'5" with a 6'9" wingspan. He's an elite shooter. He lives in Dallas. I think he would be a great fit here. Would you guys consider Tim Hardaway Jr for Hield?
Sacramento gets major salary cap relief. It allows them to go with a Fox-Haliburton backcourt. Hardaway could be a 6th man of the year candidate in Sacramento.
From Dallas' perspective, you have a legit starting lineup of:
Luka
Hield
J-Rich
DFS
KP
Bench: Brunson, Burke, Green, Kleber, Powell
3rd team: Terry, Iwundu, Johnson, WCS, Boban
Hinton and Bey are the 2 way players
You don't fool around and wait till the 2021 offseason. You resign J-Rich and this would be your team moving forward. I think this team can compete for a title.
RE: ROSTER TALK: Trade/FA Ideas (Mar 25 TDL?) + Salary Chart - KillerLeft - 12-16-2020
(12-16-2020, 09:46 AM)ItsGoTime Wrote: OPJ is not a full time PF. He is 6'8" 200 lbs. DFS is 6'7" 220 lbs and we're talking about him not being the full time PF. Please stop projecting him in this way.
Well, if that’s true, and I’ll trust you (he sure looks bigger than 200 lbs to me) then I literally don’t want him here under any circumstances. He’s not a good enough player, imo, to justify his next contract as a SF here.
RE: ROSTER TALK: Trade/FA Ideas (Mar 25 TDL?) + Salary Chart - khaled1987 - 12-16-2020
The way I see it, I would prefer it if we aren't aggressive in the trade market:
-We have a good enough roster to be a top 4 teams in the West IMHO, we need some organic development and improvements. But we have many good starting caliber players, and deep benches with 1 super star and another star (when healthy).
-There aren't many superstars available right now. Beal isn't going to be traded unless he and Russ looks awful together, they traded Wall with the idea of win now. Harden is probably the only superstar available, and he isn't really that available for a team like the Mavs.
-The trade market is currently inflated:
Jrue cost 3 first round picks, 2 pick swap when he has one year left. Worh mentioning he has made 1 All-Star appearance in weak East 7 years ago, not a single All-NBA appearance.
Covington cost 2 1st, and he has only 1 defensive team of the year appearance in his whole career.
Teams will want at least that type of compensation for there trading assets, they know that teams now are desperate considering how many contenders.
OPJ, Lavine, Gordon etc will cost arm and leg most likely.
-Other teams still have assets: Heat have those young guys they showed in playoffs, Denver has ton of assets too. Teams will want to take advantage of them even as leverage.
Mavs simply has depleted assets: We have no young, high potential player (except KP & Luka), we have traded our 1st till 2023 with protection till 2025. With 7 years rule I think we might not be able to trade more than 1 first round pick. And tbh we have Luka locked till 2025 so I won't trade a 2027 or so pick right now.
For all of that, I think we are better served in playing with teams we have, reloading our asset after paying our draft debt to the Knicks, maybe even trying to work a deal with them after 2021 draft to give them 2022 rather than 2023 and remove protection.
That doesn't mean don't test the market, there will be some good deal available sooner or later. But I am done trying to get a smaller upgrade tbh.
The team biggest need is another star, and not another starter.
RE: ROSTER TALK: Trade/FA Ideas (Mar 25 TDL?) + Salary Chart - HanspardsShowerVoice - 12-16-2020
IMHO, if the Mavs make any moves it will be for another ballhandler/scorer that makes the offense more dynamic and takes the pressure off of Luka in late game situations. And I wouldn't be surprised if it's for a low cost short term move more than some 25 year old future building block that costs a ton of assets that everyone is speculating on. Like if the Eastern Conference is really competitive with a resurgent Sixers and/or Nets, wouldn't be suprrised if Ujiri goes into small rebuild mode around the Siakam/Vanvleet core and auctions off a Kyle Lowry rental for future 1st or young player. That's more inline of what I would see happening than the Magic needlessly trading away a young possible franchise marquee player.
RE: ROSTER TALK: Trade/FA Ideas (Mar 25 TDL?) + Salary Chart - Mavs2019 - 12-16-2020
The Mavs are not trading for the pandemic party pimp. Forget about OPJ.
RE: ROSTER TALK: Trade/FA Ideas (Mar 25 TDL?) + Salary Chart - ItsGoTime - 12-16-2020
(12-16-2020, 12:07 PM)Mavs2019 Wrote: The Mavs are not trading for the pandemic party pimp. Forget about OPJ.Maybe, maybe not. And, no.
RE: ROSTER TALK: Trade/FA Ideas (Mar 25 TDL?) + Salary Chart - bearforce1 - 12-16-2020
(12-16-2020, 10:57 AM)khaled1987 Wrote: -There aren't many superstars available right now.
-The trade market is currently inflated:
Mavs simply has depleted assets
For all of that, I think we are better served in playing with teams we have, reloading our asset after paying our draft debt to the Knicks
The team biggest need is another star, and not another starter.
My first post here but the end of the Giannis dream yesterday has got the gears in my brain churning. I agree with nearly your entire post but highlighting these parts in particular as I think about the Mavs options now.
I'm by no means a cap expert so I welcome anyone to correct my thinking here, but based on my understanding, there’s an urgency to get a star either in-season or next offseason to preserve a max contract "slot" above the salary cap before Luka gets his extension (similar to why GS did the sign & trade for D'Angelo Russell when KD left). I certainly don't want the Mavs to go down that route though and max a free agent who doesn't warrant it.
So given that, the points in your post, and the Mavs greatest need for a positional upgrade (PF), here's my idea: Kevin Love & and a FRP for JJ & DP in-season (or trading for him into capspace next offseason). Why?
* Buying low and he's "only" 32 - Mavs have done well recently with reclamation projects
* He has 2 seasons left after '21 on his neg value contract - 1 "real" season and then he becomes an expiring...
* Kicks the can down the road to find a more suitable, younger star for our core by preserving a max slot (again, assuming I understand how the cap works)
* Mavs can partially rebuild their draft assets
* Would be the only guy on the roster to have won a title
* Cleveland does it to get off the money & because he’s been a huge PITA during their rebuild
* He has the right agent to make it happen with the Mavs (Schwartz)
What do you guys think? Maybe I'm thinking about this max slot wrong or overvaluing it, but to me this is a way I think we could still keep Josh Richardson with Bird Rights, a relatively deep bench, and preserve the flexibility to add another "star" down the road. All of which I prefer to unloading the few assets we have for the likes of OPJ, Lavine, Oladipo or overspending on what is now a weak FA class.
RE: ROSTER TALK: Trade/FA Ideas (Mar 25 TDL?) + Salary Chart - omahen - 12-16-2020
(12-16-2020, 01:25 PM)bearforce1 Wrote: What do you guys think?
The concept of adding someone for cheap is ok, assuming there is nothing better on the table. Love would be like "plan number 199" for me. There is absolutely no way Cleveland would pay a pick for that.
RE: ROSTER TALK: Trade/FA Ideas (Mar 25 TDL?) + Salary Chart - KillerLeft - 12-16-2020
(12-16-2020, 01:40 PM)omahen Wrote: There is absolutely no way Cleveland would pay a pick for that.
Is your think above based on the idea that they know it would be a lottery pick?
RE: ROSTER TALK: Trade/FA Ideas (Mar 25 TDL?) + Salary Chart - omahen - 12-16-2020
(12-16-2020, 10:57 AM)khaled1987 Wrote: The way I see it, I would prefer it if we aren't aggressive in the trade market:
The way I see it. Mavs have two great expiring contracts, able to match basically any kind of salary. Mavs have a very deep team of solid role players, which means we can easily "sacrifice" a couple. Playoff rotation is limited to some 8 guys anyway. Letting Johnson expire is basically an asset lost, since it would take to renounce THJ too to get at some 18 mil of capspace, assuming we want to keep Richardson. That's why I would expect Mavs to be very aggresive at TDL. Even if for expiring contract. Getting bird rights of a player for some spare parts like Johnson and future picks has way more value than gutting half the roster to sign a similar value FA.
RE: ROSTER TALK: Trade/FA Ideas (Mar 25 TDL?) + Salary Chart - omahen - 12-16-2020
(12-16-2020, 01:51 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: Is your think above based on the idea that they know it would be a lottery pick?
If it is not a lottery pick, it means they have a decent or even good roster. So why trading Love for a bunch of "trash" than... If you are rebuilding you absolutely don't care if he is a PITA, as the team sucks anyway.
RE: ROSTER TALK: Trade/FA Ideas (Mar 25 TDL?) + Salary Chart - bearforce1 - 12-16-2020
(12-16-2020, 02:00 PM)omahen Wrote: If it is not a lottery pick, it means they have a decent or even good roster. So why trading Love for a bunch of "trash" than... If you are rebuilding you absolutely don't care if he is a PITA, as the team sucks anyway.
They can protect it or offer the Bucks' 2022 pick which it looks like they own. I'm not greedy. It's proper compensation for us taking a net $40m off their books for the final 2 years of Love's deal (accounting for the years left on DP's deal).
As for your second point, I generally agree they shouldn't care if he's a PITA, but GMs typically care about team culture, environment, and doing "right" by a player and agent moreso than us keyboard GMs...
RE: ROSTER TALK: Trade/FA Ideas (Mar 25 TDL?) + Salary Chart - KillerLeft - 12-16-2020
(12-16-2020, 01:57 PM)omahen Wrote: The way I see it. Mavs have two great expiring contracts, able to match basically any kind of salary. Mavs have a very deep team of solid role players, which means we can easily "sacrifice" a couple. Playoff rotation is limited to some 8 guys anyway. Letting Johnson expire is basically an asset lost, since it would take to renounce THJ too to get at some 18 mil of capspace, assuming we want to keep Richardson. That's why I would expect Mavs to be very aggresive at TDL. Even if for expiring contract. Getting bird rights of a player for some spare parts like Johnson and future picks has way more value than gutting half the roster to sign a similar value FA.
I agree with this.
While I don't agree that FA was "Giannis or Bust" and there will be options there we can't clearly see yet (surprise improvement, surprise availability from a restricted free agent, possibly), the timing is so, so important that if there isn't a clear free agent target you think you have a realistic shot at by the TDL, you have to shake all of the trade trees and seriously consider pulling the trigger on the best option.
I agree that at this point, losing Johnson for nothing would be a mistake. Every FA scenario that comes off the board (Paul Geroge and Giannis came off this week) makes that eventuality slightly more likely.
Turning THJ/Johsnon and sweeteners into a guy who's clearly in your top 5 would be a win. Then, re-sign Richardson.
Turning THJ OR Johnson into a pretty good player who fills a need in your rotation, re-signing Richardson AND either THJ or Johnson (whoever is left, and hopefully to a team friendly deal) is kind of a win. I would be ok with using this method to keep the team salary down a bit, temporarily.
Losing an asset, either THJ or Johnson, for NOTHING, and right before you get locked into an over the cap life for a long time, would be a loss.
RE: ROSTER TALK: Trade/FA Ideas (Mar 25 TDL?) + Salary Chart - omahen - 12-16-2020
(12-16-2020, 02:08 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: Johnson
While I agree with everything you said, I don't get your love for Johnson. He is a vet min player. Plenty of those around. Besides his limited role playing production, his only value is his expiring contract. If we don't trade him there is absolutely no tragedy if he leaves in free agency. Like Barea and Lee did this offseason. Point is - his bird rights are worthless because we can always resign him for vet min.
RE: ROSTER TALK: Trade/FA Ideas (Mar 25 TDL?) + Salary Chart - KillerLeft - 12-16-2020
(12-16-2020, 02:15 PM)omahen Wrote: While I agree with everything you said, I don't get your love for Johnson. He is a vet min player. Plenty of those around. Besides his limited role playing production, his only value is his expiring contract. If we don't trade him there is absolutely no tragedy if he leaves in free agency.
Sorry to be unclear. I thought I was agreeing with you there.
I'm looking at him like an expiring contract as an ASSET. Yes, letting him expire is valuable, but only if it creates cap space. Since we're rapidly approaching a world in which the chances of acquiring a free agent good enough to justify losing BOTH Richardson AND THJ aren't great, I'd say we're approaching a world in which the Mavs are officially operating over the cap.
In that scenario, I'd call letting Johnson expire a "loss" because you'd be losing the ability to add salary (while over the cap) at his contractual level...that's my point. Again, I thought I was agreeing with your point, so I might have misunderstood.
RE: ROSTER TALK: Trade/FA Ideas (Mar 25 TDL?) + Salary Chart - StepBackJay - 12-16-2020
Next offseason is a long way away but speculating is fun regardless so here we go:
Still thinking 2021 is probably keeping the band together + a smaller move or two. Mavs can keep their guys plus add an MLE player and a BAE player if they even have enough spots. Boban is like the team mascot so it's possible he gets that BAE. For MLE you have Paul Milsap, Danny Green, Andre Iguodala, Olynyk, JaMichael Green, PJ Tucker, Kelly Oubre, DJJ, Ibaka, Harrell. Lots of interesting names at SF/PF of differing levels of quality. We know Mavs were going pretty hard after Crowder this offseason but I doubt they guaranteed him a starting spot. I imagine they saw Crowder's role as a part-time starter and finisher based on matchups.
If the Mavs do part ways with THJ there are some interesting names and of course Mavs will have cap space. You have Conley, Lowery, DeRozan, Dipo, Fournier, Barton, Dinwiddie, Powell. I don't put Jrue on this list bc I think he is going to be locked up pretty instantly with the Bucks.
So lots of options, none of them super-sexy-star-player options but Mavs could upgrade Johnson, Boban, WCS, Iwundu with one of those forwards from the first list. THJ probably will be resigned but options there as well.
RE: ROSTER TALK: Trade/FA Ideas (Mar 25 TDL?) + Salary Chart - omahen - 12-16-2020
(12-16-2020, 02:19 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: Sorry to be unclear. I thought I was agreeing with you there.
I'm looking at him like an expiring contract as an ASSET. Yes, letting him expire is valuable, but only if it creates cap space. Since we're rapidly approaching a world in which the chances of acquiring a free agent good enough to justify losing BOTH Richardson AND THJ aren't great, I'd say we're approaching a world in which the Mavs are officially operating over the cap.
In that scenario, I'd call letting Johnson expire a "loss" because you'd be losing the ability to add salary (while over the cap) at his contractual level...that's my point. Again, I thought I was agreeing with your point, so I might have misunderstood.
I was reffering to the part where you said resigning Johnson is kind of a win.