2020-2021 ROSTER TALK: Archived - Printable Version +- MavsBoard (https://www.mavsboard.com) +-- Forum: Boards (https://www.mavsboard.com/forumdisplay.php?fid=1) +--- Forum: Dallas Mavericks and the NBA (https://www.mavsboard.com/forumdisplay.php?fid=2) +--- Thread: 2020-2021 ROSTER TALK: Archived (/showthread.php?tid=682) Pages:
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
26
27
28
29
30
31
32
33
34
35
36
37
38
39
40
41
42
43
44
45
46
47
48
49
50
51
52
53
54
55
56
57
58
59
60
61
62
63
64
65
66
67
68
69
70
71
72
73
74
75
76
77
78
79
80
81
82
83
84
85
86
87
88
89
90
91
92
93
94
95
96
97
98
99
100
101
102
103
104
105
106
107
108
109
110
111
112
113
114
115
116
117
118
119
120
121
122
123
124
125
126
127
128
129
130
131
132
133
134
135
136
137
138
139
140
141
142
143
144
145
146
147
148
149
150
151
152
153
154
155
156
157
158
159
160
161
162
163
164
165
166
167
168
169
170
171
172
173
174
175
176
177
178
179
180
181
182
183
184
185
186
187
188
189
190
191
192
193
194
195
196
197
198
199
200
201
202
203
204
205
206
207
208
209
210
211
212
213
214
215
216
217
218
219
220
221
222
223
224
225
226
227
228
229
230
231
232
233
234
235
236
237
238
239
240
241
242
243
244
245
246
247
248
249
250
251
252
253
254
255
256
257
258
259
260
261
262
263
264
265
266
267
268
269
270
271
272
273
274
275
276
277
278
279
280
281
282
283
284
285
286
287
288
289
290
291
292
293
294
295
296
297
298
299
300
301
302
303
304
305
306
307
308
309
310
311
312
313
314
315
316
317
318
319
320
321
322
323
324
325
326
327
328
329
330
331
332
333
334
335
336
337
338
339
340
341
342
343
344
345
346
347
348
349
350
351
352
353
354
355
356
357
358
359
360
361
362
363
364
365
366
367
368
369
370
371
372
373
374
375
376
377
378
379
380
381
382
383
384
385
386
387
388
389
390
391
392
393
394
395
396
397
398
399
400
401
402
403
404
405
406
407
408
409
410
411
412
413
414
415
416
417
418
419
420
421
422
423
424
425
426
427
428
429
430
431
432
433
434
435
436
437
438
439
440
441
442
443
444
445
446
447
448
449
450
451
452
453
454
455
456
457
458
459
460
461
462
463
464
465
466
467
468
469
470
471
472
473
474
475
476
477
478
479
480
|
RE: ROSTER TALK: Trade/FA Ideas (Mar 25 TDL?) + Salary Chart - Branduil - 12-15-2020 (12-15-2020, 06:57 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: So, you know how Kamm is hellbent on maximizing size at every position? I am the same way, only about foot speed, agility and skills.That's fair, but I'm not sure OPJ is an ideal full-time PF, he's lighter than DFS and Barnes. He has more of a Trevor Ariza type body, long and skinny. That's why I view him as more of a THJ replacement. For PF I'm more interested in guys like Aaron Gordon or Grant, yeah. RE: ROSTER TALK: Trade/FA Ideas (Mar 25 TDL?) + Salary Chart - FunkBoreland - 12-15-2020 (12-15-2020, 07:34 PM)omahen Wrote: High culture, great locker room guy with elite skill. I don't think most people on this board realize how much of a "high culture" player is valued in a professional sports team. Your one of the few that repeatedly says this of Powell despite knowing his not the ideal Forward/Center, he has intangibles that doesn't show up on stats. RE: ROSTER TALK: Trade/FA Ideas (Mar 25 TDL?) + Salary Chart - cow - 12-15-2020 (12-15-2020, 07:44 PM)omahen Wrote: Well, he is proving to everyone that recent injury is a thing of past. I don't see much difference between pre injury and post injury Powell, other than perhaps a little rust that need to be shaken off. That's why I don't agree that he is a huge negative. Let's take OPJ example. Chicago will be moving him only, if they are tanking. If they are tanking, they don't need (max) cap space because no free agent will want to go there anyway. So if Mavs are offering a pick for OPJ, they would do it, imho. Who else of the contenders can even match that 28 mil salary anyway and offer a pick? Powell doesn't look as springing. He'll need time to shake the rust off (I'm calling that a season). That's why I was thinking the next TDL. What pick are we offering for OPJ again? I wouldn't give up a significant asset for OPJ. Paying JRic and OPJ in the offseason means your core is them with KP and Luka. I think they MBT will have their sights set a tad higher than that. (12-15-2020, 07:47 PM)FunkBoreland Wrote: I don't think most people on this board realize how much of a "high culture" player is valued in a professional sports team. Your one of the few that repeatedly says this of Powell despite knowing his not the ideal Forward/Center, he has intangibles that doesn't show up on stats. Go through my post history. I'm the president of the Dwight Powell fan club. RE: ROSTER TALK: Trade/FA Ideas (Mar 25 TDL?) + Salary Chart - KillerLeft - 12-15-2020 (12-15-2020, 07:47 PM)Branduil Wrote: That's fair, but I'm not sure OPJ is an ideal full-time PF, he's lighter than DFS and Barnes. He has more of a Trevor Ariza type body, long and skinny. If that's true, then maybe my assessment of him so far has been incorrect. It's very possible. So let me reiterate this part: if he's a 3, then I'd rather just keep DFS, who is on a great contract and can give you similar contributions (3&D only) at that position, and who you already know fits in. RE: ROSTER TALK: Trade/FA Ideas (Mar 25 TDL?) + Salary Chart - omahen - 12-15-2020 (12-15-2020, 07:49 PM)cow Wrote: What pick are we offering for OPJ again? I wouldn't give up a significant asset for OPJ. Paying JRic and OPJ in the offseason means your core is them with KP and Luka. Of course this goes if you think OPJ can be a valuable starter on a contender. If not, you don't go through trouble trading for his 28 millions, especially not giving up THJ who you (by you I mean Mavs) like. So let's assume he is a player Mavs see as a long term 2 way wing we need and an upgrade over DFS. I don0t care paying an asset (2027 pick) if I think he is that and trade Powell contract in the process. I understand what he brings but he is overpaid and his contract will be a burden at some point. I also think he will be unplayable in playoffs, at least as a starter. DFS and Kleber are valued successors as torchbearers of Mavs culture. I may be wrong, but I think Mavs will play Luka and KP with three wings in the starting line-up. From (tanking) Chicago perspective is the same if they trade OPJ and eat Powell contract while get a pick or if OPJ walks in free agency and they sell their cap space for Powell type contract. (12-15-2020, 07:49 PM)cow Wrote: I think they MBT will have their sights set a tad higher than that. Let's assume again OPJ is a 15-20 mil per guy. I think this level of players is max Mavs can trade for (or sign in FA, since no one better is actually avaiable anymore). I don't think we have the ammo for Bradley Beals of the world. There are not many two way options in this 15-20 mil per range. RE: ROSTER TALK: Trade/FA Ideas (Mar 25 TDL?) + Salary Chart - Branduil - 12-15-2020 (12-15-2020, 07:51 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: If that's true, then maybe my assessment of him so far has been incorrect. It's very possible.Not necessarily the wrong view, but then the question remains, what to do with THJ/Powell? It seems clear to me that the Mavs once again have tons of depth, but depth only matters so much in the playoffs once you get past the 8th guy. The ideal would be to consolidate that depth into better starters, and especially two-way players. I view OPJ as a guy who can kind of give us the good parts of THJ/DFS without their weaker parts, so it seems like a good trade to me. I understand the value of DFS' contract, and I wouldn't have been willing to give him up before this offseason, but with the Mavs adding guys like Green, Hinton, Iwundu, Bey, etc. I think he could be more valuable as a trading piece. RE: ROSTER TALK: Trade/FA Ideas (Mar 25 TDL?) + Salary Chart - StepBackJay - 12-15-2020 Man I would love Gordon so much but MBT be like "meh not better than Powell." RE: ROSTER TALK: Trade/FA Ideas (Mar 25 TDL?) + Salary Chart - KillerLeft - 12-15-2020 (12-15-2020, 08:12 PM)StepBackJay Wrote: Man I would love Gordon so much but MBT be like "meh not better than Powell." One thing I think is interesting about today is that we officially don't know what the MBT thinks about ANYTHING as of right now. We'll probably have to wait for the TDL to get any clarity, but I have a feeling the standards just dropped a bit. RE: ROSTER TALK: Trade/FA Ideas (Mar 25 TDL?) + Salary Chart - StepBackJay - 12-15-2020 (12-15-2020, 08:13 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: One thing I think is interesting about today is that we officially don't know what the MBT thinks about ANYTHING as of right now. True but I feel deep in my heart that they love Powell like he's their own natural born son. To me if someone gets upgraded its THJ. RE: ROSTER TALK: Trade/FA Ideas (Mar 25 TDL?) + Salary Chart - cow - 12-15-2020 (12-15-2020, 08:01 PM)omahen Wrote: Of course this goes if you think OPJ can be a valuable starter on a contender. If not, you don't go through trouble trading for his 28 millions, especially not giving up THJ who you (by you I mean Mavs) like. So let's assume he is a player Mavs see as a long term 2 way wing we need and an upgrade over DFS. I don0t care paying an asset (2027 pick) if I think he is that and trade Powell contract in the process. I understand what he brings but he is overpaid and his contract will be a burden at some point. I also think he will be unplayable in playoffs, at least as a starter. DFS and Kleber are valued successors as torchbearers of Mavs culture. I may be wrong, but I think Mavs will play Luka and KP with three wings in the starting line-up. I'm not giving up a FRP. RE: ROSTER TALK: Trade/FA Ideas (Mar 25 TDL?) + Salary Chart - ItsGoTime - 12-15-2020 (12-15-2020, 08:02 PM)Branduil Wrote: I view OPJ as a guy who can kind of give us the good parts of THJ/DFS without their weaker partsThis is exactly who I see OPJ as. RE: ROSTER TALK: Trade/FA Ideas (Mar 25 TDL?) + Salary Chart - StepBackJay - 12-15-2020 (12-15-2020, 08:22 PM)ItsGoTime Wrote: This is exactly who I see OPJ as. Would you trade OPJ for THJ + DFS? RE: ROSTER TALK: Trade/FA Ideas (Mar 25 TDL?) + Salary Chart - KillerLeft - 12-15-2020 (12-15-2020, 08:02 PM)Branduil Wrote: Not necessarily the wrong view, but then the question remains, what to do with THJ/Powell? I like both players (if Powell comes close to full recovery) and I'm not opposed to keeping them both, if a difference maker can't be acquired. I'm also ok with bringing one or both off the bench, if that helps. RE: ROSTER TALK: Trade/FA Ideas (Mar 25 TDL?) + Salary Chart - StepBackJay - 12-15-2020 I am already thinking the Mavs will bring everybody back next year unless they can't come to terms with THJ. He is the one guy that is a wildcard. RE: ROSTER TALK: Trade/FA Ideas (Mar 25 TDL?) + Salary Chart - Branduil - 12-15-2020 (12-15-2020, 08:25 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: I like both players (if Powell comes close to full recovery) and I'm not opposed to keeping them both, if a difference maker can't be acquired. I'm also ok with bringing one or both off the bench, if that helps.To put it another way, right now it looks like the healthy starting lineup the Mavs prefer is Luka / JRich / ___ / Powell / KP That last spot will be filled by either THJ or DFS. If it's THJ, you're sacrificing defense. If it's DFS, you're sacrificing offense. So that's the first negative for me. Now, as you say, you can bring one off the bench. But at this point, I feel that's like adding another drop of water to the ocean. I am simply not worried about our bench at all, in fact I'm convinced they'll be one of the best in the league. We have an abundance of bench riches at every position. So I view the value added by moving one of those guys to the bench as very small, and in fact possibly a small negative if they're taking minutes from guys who might be able to contribute and build chemistry on our bench unit. So to me OPJ (or another player like him) can solve this dilemma simply by being able to contribute similarly to either guy on both ends. Would he be amazingly better than THJ on offense? Or DFS on defense? Probably not. But you can only play 5 guys, so the fact that you can keep him on the court, in late game situations, without substituting in another guy for offense or defense, is a huge positive to me. I don't want any one-dimensional players in the starting lineup unless they're all-NBA elite at that dimension. The bench is the place for those guys. RE: ROSTER TALK: Trade/FA Ideas (Mar 25 TDL?) + Salary Chart - KillerLeft - 12-15-2020 (12-15-2020, 08:43 PM)Branduil Wrote: If it's DFS, you're sacrificing offense. I disagree, especially if the alternative you suggest is another 3&D guy, which is how I view OPJ. If they could get a 3 who could ALSO floor the ball and make plays, I'd trade those dudes in a heartbeat. And, I'm not resigned to the idea that the upgrade has to be at the 3. I view Powell's spot as just as likely to be upgraded, even if you're correct that they're locked into starting him there FOR NOW, with THIS roster. That's certainly the position Giannis would've played, after all. So, we KNOW there are players they'd replace Powell with. Finally, while I don't know if the Mavs agree with this, MY opinion is that DFS is more desirable to keep and build around than Powell, and I LIKE Powell (before injury). I just REALLY like DFS. I hope that all makes sense. RE: ROSTER TALK: Trade/FA Ideas (Mar 25 TDL?) + Salary Chart - Dundalis - 12-15-2020 (12-15-2020, 08:43 PM)Branduil Wrote: To put it another way, right now it looks like the healthy starting lineup the Mavs prefer isPowell and KP together is already sacrificing defense. You need to surround KP with as many good perimeter defenders as possible to hide his defensive weaknesses in space and maximise his interior defense. And DFS is much better at the 4 than the 3. A lineup of Luka/JRich/THJ/Powell/KP is actually not really much of a defensive upgrade on last years starting unit post Powell injury. Completely defeats the purpose of the defensive minded focus. I'm not saying they won't roll with that kind of lineup when KP is back, but it would be a stupid decision if they really want to actually be a much better defensive team. The only big we have suited to playing large minutes with KP while keeping defensive flexibility is Maxi. But ideally, KP is the sole big and DFS is the starting 4. THJ at the 3, but I hope he's gone at the TDL in a trade for something better. Also OPJ sounds great. The problem is he's useless if he's not playing, and predominantly that's what he's been doing. Not playing. RE: ROSTER TALK: Trade/FA Ideas (Mar 25 TDL?) + Salary Chart - IamDougieFresh - 12-15-2020 We can win it all by putting the right pieces around Luka/KP. No third star needed!!! RE: ROSTER TALK: Trade/FA Ideas (Mar 25 TDL?) + Salary Chart - KillerLeft - 12-15-2020 (12-15-2020, 09:04 PM)Dundalis Wrote: Powell and KP together is already sacrificing defense. You need to surround KP with as many good perimeter defenders as possible to hide his defensive weaknesses in space and maximise his interior defense. And DFS is much better at the 4 than the 3. I agree with the philosophy your opinions stem from, believe me. I don't think the specific application of them to the examples above are correct, however. As Kammrath loves to point out on a daily basis, the data says that Powell/KP is a GOOD defensive pairing, and that DFS is much better at the 3 than the 4. But again, I'm with you on the overall philosophy. RE: ROSTER TALK: Trade/FA Ideas (Mar 25 TDL?) + Salary Chart - StepBackJay - 12-15-2020 (12-15-2020, 09:06 PM)IamDougieFresh Wrote: We can win it all by putting the right pieces around Luka/KP. No third star needed!!! Step 1. Lock Dwight Powell into the starting lineup for the next 3 years. Step 2. There's no step 2!!! |