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2020-2021 ROSTER TALK: Archived - Printable Version

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RE: ROSTER TALK: Mar 25 TDL | Marc Spears: Mavs are shopping KP - KillerLeft - 03-02-2021

(03-02-2021, 12:30 PM)vfromlmf Wrote: For the most part, Kleber handled the toughest defensive assignment. KP just didn't seem to make much of a defensive impact.


KP DID play better help defense (with some exceptions) and when he was matched up with Vuc in the post, those WERE the most effective defensive possessions against Vuc all night. I agree that Kleber played him more often (due to Vuc's versatility) but not really all that successfully. 

I actually thought Kleber/KP played more connected than I have seen them all season, being on the same page with helping, picking guys up in transition, etc. There were exceptions, of course.

Most notably, with this being a RUNNING game (OMG was the pace of the thing fast) I was more than excited to see KP KEEP UP. 

I have no issues with Carlisle publicly pointing out that KP is making progress with his conditioning and defensive effort, even if he's placing the results on a little too high of a pedestal, perhaps. KP might just need a little of that right now. Encouragement is good, and we know Carlisle isn't afraid to use the stick, so I'm sure he's gone to that tactic some over the last couple of months, too. 

Offensively, I couldn't care less - UNTIL THE DEFENSE IS CONSISTENTLY THIS GOOD. Having said that, most of his shots, though misses, were shots I'd want him to take.

RE: ROSTER TALK: Mar 25 TDL | Marc Spears: Mavs are shopping KP - ItsGoTime - 03-02-2021

(03-02-2021, 11:56 AM)StepBackJay Wrote: I think Luka, Brunson, DFS, Maxi, Wiseman as your core squad
Like that is your championship starting squad?

RE: ROSTER TALK: Mar 25 TDL | Marc Spears: Mavs are shopping KP - StepBackJay - 03-02-2021

(03-02-2021, 12:54 PM)ItsGoTime Wrote: Like that is your championship starting squad?

I wouldn't saying starting championship squad but I like it as a core squad. To say any Maverick lineup is a championship squad you have to like it better than LeBron + AD, better than Steph, Draymond, Klay as well as a very Utah team among others.

I like Brunson as a potential 6th man closer. Wiseman has star potential and Mavs would have cap space to add in around that whether that's J Rich, THJ + another guy or two or one really big upgrade. It's hard to know what the final roster would be and how close to contender status it would be but I like those 5 guys I mentioned as core guys.

In the short term Mavs are unlikely to match star power (KP + Luka is the closest thing we have to that) so it might be more realistic to try to build a Utah-like team that is solid 1-8 without any real holes in it. That type of team is obtainable. The hope is that Rick and Luka could take that type of team deep into the playoffs.

RE: ROSTER TALK: Mar 25 TDL | Marc Spears: Mavs are shopping KP - SleepingHero - 03-02-2021

(03-02-2021, 12:30 PM)vfromlmf Wrote: Just conjecture but Carlisle's post-game pandering of KP's "floor game" seemed really disingenuous to me. I watched KP closely all night. I don't think he played all that well. Maybe his ability to shoot changed the game in ways I didn't notice. I don't know


He had a tough shooting night in the first half for sure, but his 2nd half was really good imo. 

15 points, 5 rebounds, 4/6 from the field. And his post defense/rim defense was all around exceptional. KP bothered Vucevic more than anyone else that night and stopped his post-ups more times than not. He got burned a couple times in the PnR but I felt KP was deserving of the defense game belt.

RE: ROSTER TALK: Mar 25 TDL | Marc Spears: Mavs are shopping KP - ItsGoTime - 03-02-2021

(03-02-2021, 01:00 PM)StepBackJay Wrote: I wouldn't saying starting championship squad but I like it as a core squad. To say any Maverick lineup is a championship squad you have to like it better than LeBron + AD, better than Steph, Draymond, Klay as well as a very Utah team among others.

I like Brunson as a potential 6th man closer. Wiseman has star potential and Mavs would have cap space to add in around that whether that's J Rich, THJ + another guy or two or one really big upgrade. It's hard to know what the final roster would be and how close to contender status it would be but I like those 5 guys I mentioned as core guys.

In the short term Mavs are unlikely to match star power (KP + Luka is the closest thing we have to that) so it might be more realistic to try to build a Utah-like team that is solid 1-8 without any real holes in it. That type of team is obtainable. The hope is that Rick and Luka could take that type of team deep into the playoffs.
I don't see why anyone would label any player other than Luka on this team "core" anything. Until we get a contending type starting group, everyone should be gettable IMO. We as fans and a FO get too hung up on "great locker room guys" and such.

RE: ROSTER TALK: Mar 25 TDL | Marc Spears: Mavs are shopping KP - SamStetz - 03-02-2021

Someone else mentioned it the other night and I was thinking the same thing, but (until a replacement comes along) I am really glad that WCS and Powell seem to split first half minutes and whoever is playing better gets the second half minutes. They’re both too inconsistent to get those minutes regularly, so see who’s putting in more effort and reward them with second half minutes.

RE: ROSTER TALK: Mar 25 TDL | Marc Spears: Mavs are shopping KP - KillerLeft - 03-02-2021

(03-02-2021, 01:09 PM)ItsGoTime Wrote: I don't see why anyone would label any player other than Luka on this team "core" anything. Until we get a contending type starting group, everyone should be gettable IMO.


I see and agree with this point, but on the other hand, continuity is so freaking important. On court chemistry is not an instant thing, and I know you understand that because you make that point about Richardson fairly often (and I agree). 

So, while you're correct from a talent building angle, I sure hope the MBT is actively deciding on the long term futures of some of these guys. NOBODY is untouchable other than Luka, I agree, but there are others who are emblematic of this team, imo, and are worth more here than who they might be traded for. Not sure whether Brunson is on that list or not - time will tell. Personally, I'm starting to become a believer in him.

RE: ROSTER TALK: Mar 25 TDL | Marc Spears: Mavs are shopping KP - StepBackJay - 03-02-2021

(03-02-2021, 01:09 PM)ItsGoTime Wrote: I don't see why anyone would label any player other than Luka on this team "core" anything. Until we get a contending type starting group, everyone should be gettable IMO. We as fans and a FO get too hung up on "great locker room guys" and such.

Was JET a core guy?

RE: ROSTER TALK: Mar 25 TDL | Marc Spears: Mavs are shopping KP - StepBackJay - 03-02-2021

So something we haven't been talking about but need to kick around, which is the idea that if there's one team you could fleece for the rights to KP, it's Washington.

Washington is mediocre despite having two stars. Westbrook who ppl say is over the hill is averaging a 20 point triple double. Beal is a 33 ppg scorer.

Does Washington want to have to blow up a team with 2 stars on it or would they take the chance to sell off their "future" to get a third star? I would argue the latter.

I think Mavs could easily get a Jrue-like package with picks, pick swaps, Bertans and whoever the best young player the Wiz have (Rui?). Washington would have their big 3, all under contract for multiple seasons. And if it doesn't work they would sell them off and start over in a year or two.

For the Mavs you would have a full war chest of assets and cap space that you can use at the appropriate time to land a star. In the meantime you would still have a very good team. The way KP has been playing I don't think it hurts the Mavs playoff chances if he was traded for this type of package mid-season. This type of trade would also be available in the offseason if Mavs wanted to wait until then.

RE: ROSTER TALK: Mar 25 TDL | Marc Spears: Mavs are shopping KP - ItsGoTime - 03-02-2021

(03-02-2021, 01:18 PM)StepBackJay Wrote: Was JET a core guy?
Not in my opinion. The FO made him a core guy, but he helped us get 1 championship. THANK YOU JET for that. Not an untouchable core guy.

RE: ROSTER TALK: Mar 25 TDL | Marc Spears: Mavs are shopping KP - StepBackJay - 03-02-2021

(03-02-2021, 01:28 PM)ItsGoTime Wrote: Not in my opinion. The FO made him a core guy, but he helped us get 1 championship. THANK YOU JET for that. Not an untouchable core guy.

Right so no one is untouchable but Luka. I didn't say these other guys weren't untouchable but realistically its not like you are going to get AD for Brunson and Maxi either.

RE: ROSTER TALK: Mar 25 TDL | Marc Spears: Mavs are shopping KP - ItsGoTime - 03-02-2021

(03-02-2021, 01:18 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: I see and agree with this point, but on the other hand, continuity is so freaking important. On court chemistry is not an instant thing, and I know you understand that because you make that point about Richardson fairly often (and I agree). 
I don't disagree with the sentiment that JB is making himself into a very important player for THIS franchise. I just see 2 for sure starters on a championship contending team on this roster (Luka and KP). I don't think it'll take all the rest of the guys to get 3 more starters (FA, Draft, Trades), but you best be sure, if we identify a guy we want as a part of our starting "core", anyone on our roster sans Luka should be on the table. Of course value has to be at least even (best player in trade for a couple really good players), but there is not one guy on this team sans Luka that should be looked at as untouchable "core" guys.
(03-02-2021, 01:32 PM)StepBackJay Wrote: I didn't say these other guys weren't untouchable but realistically its not like you are going to get AD for Brunson and Maxi either.
To me, core guys are untouchable, and we don't need an AD for Brunson and Maxi trade, if that's all you would trade JB for, that is untouchable.

RE: ROSTER TALK: Mar 25 TDL | Marc Spears: Mavs are shopping KP - ItsGoTime - 03-02-2021

BTW, I'm just realizing that KL said he was the one who changed my title. I always thought it was Clutch. HAHA!

RE: ROSTER TALK: Mar 25 TDL | Marc Spears: Mavs are shopping KP - KillerLeft - 03-02-2021

(03-02-2021, 01:40 PM)ItsGoTime Wrote: BTW, I'm just realizing that KL said he was the one who changed my title. I always thought it was Clutch. HAHA!


Yeah, I was convinced it was you doing it to me. Had to have been either @"Kammrath" or @"ClutchDirk"...I would guess, but don't trust my instincts now. Whomever it was, they must've had a few good laughs when they noticed I was messing with your title in return. The perfect crime.

RE: ROSTER TALK: Mar 25 TDL | Marc Spears: Mavs are shopping KP - Chicagojk - 03-02-2021

I hadn't heard this before.   I remember a lot of talk that Vucevic would have been a target if we didn't have KP, but from the article is appears the Mavs at least inquired about pairing Vuc and KP.   

I really like Vuc offensive game.   Just really skilled.  His little jump hook is almost automatic.   And he also shoots from the perimeter well.   I am not sure how it would look if you had to count on him to provide interior presence on defense in playoff style matchups though.  

Could he play with KP?  Last year may have been a different story, but this year would have been dicey, right?

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2934088-nba-rumors-mavs-tried-to-sign-magics-nikola-vucevic-in-fa-was-too-expensive

RE: ROSTER TALK: Mar 25 TDL | Marc Spears: Mavs are shopping KP - KillerLeft - 03-02-2021

(03-02-2021, 01:53 PM)Chicagojk Wrote: Could he play with KP?  Last year may have been a different story, but this year would have been dicey, right?


Absofreakinglutely right, and "dicey" might be the nicest possible way to put it, imo.

RE: ROSTER TALK: Mar 25 TDL | Marc Spears: Mavs are shopping KP - StepBackJay - 03-02-2021

(03-02-2021, 01:34 PM)ItsGoTime Wrote: To me, core guys are untouchable, and we don't need an AD for Brunson and Maxi trade, if that's all you would trade JB for, that is untouchable.

We might be caught up in semantics. I don't think core guys are untouchable necessarily but JB in particular is a guy I do not think should be shopped.

RE: ROSTER TALK: Mar 25 TDL | Marc Spears: Mavs are shopping KP - ItsGoTime - 03-02-2021

(03-02-2021, 01:59 PM)StepBackJay Wrote: JB in particular is a guy I do not think should be shopped.
I agree with this, IF he is good with his current role on the team. He can be given a chance to break into a bigger role and I think that time is coming soon, but if he NEEDS more, we better shop him quickly or he's gone IMO.

RE: ROSTER TALK: Mar 25 TDL | Marc Spears: Mavs are shopping KP - ItsGoTime - 03-02-2021

(03-02-2021, 01:55 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: Absofreakinglutely right, and "dicey" might be the nicest possible way to put it, imo.
I'm pretty close to the crowd saying bring in talent and let it sort itself out, if they can't sort it out, trade the talent and get better fitting pieces. This is the Toine/Twan strategy that got us the JET.

RE: ROSTER TALK: Mar 25 TDL | Marc Spears: Mavs are shopping KP - Tyler - 03-02-2021

(03-02-2021, 01:53 PM)Chicagojk Wrote: I hadn't heard this before.   I remember a lot of talk that Vucevic would have been a target if we didn't have KP, but from the article is appears the Mavs at least inquired about pairing Vuc and KP.   


Townsend was the guy who reported right after Dallas acquired KP (like maybe even within a few hours) that their next target was Vucevic. Whether or not the interest was serious, my impression is that his source was Duffy (Vuc's agent) who was riding the news wave to build up Dallas as a suitor in his impending free agency.