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+--- Thread: 2020-2021 ROSTER TALK: Archived (/showthread.php?tid=682)
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RE: ROSTER TALK: Mar 25 TDL | WAS among teams monitoring KP situation - Chicagojk - 02-25-2021
Is Nemaja Bjelica an option or is he another finesse big man. He is not playing in Sacramento. Both him and Rashaun Holmes (Free agent) may be two names to sniff around. Bjelica isn't the defender of Kleber but is the more skilled offensive player.
RE: ROSTER TALK: Mar 25 TDL | WAS among teams monitoring KP situation - dirkfansince1998 - 02-25-2021
Fire up the trade machine:
KP + Richardson --> Griffin + S. Bey + Stewart
Johnson + Burke + 2027 1st + 2024 2nd + 2025 2nd --> Ball + Hart + Melli , waive Iwundu
Try to add the Knicks as a 3rd team in one of the trades and lift the restricitons on the 2023 1st round pick to add value.
Don´t use the team option for WCS, no new contract for Boban. Resign Ball, Hart and THJ. Tyler Bey gets a fully guaranteed deal.
Use the MLE or tMLE to add one more bigman. I prefer Theis. Add a big body for the vet min or BAE (let´s say Meyers Leonard).
Hinton returns on a two-way deal.
Ball / Doncic / DFS / Kleber / Theis
Brunson/ THJ / S.Bey / Griffin / Stewart
Terry/ Green / Hart / T.Bey / Leonard
Hinton / 2nd round pick
RE: ROSTER TALK: Mar 25 TDL | WAS among teams monitoring KP situation - cow - 02-25-2021
(02-25-2021, 09:55 PM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: Fire up the trade machine:
KP + Richardson --> Griffin + S. Bey + Stewart
Johnson + Burke + 2027 1st + 2024 2nd + 2025 2nd --> Ball + Hart + Melli , waive Iwundu
Try to add the Knicks as a 3rd team in one of the trades and lift the restricitons on the 2023 1st round pick to add value.
Don´t use the team option for WCS, no new contract for Boban. Resign Ball, Hart and THJ. Tyler Bey gets a fully guaranteed deal.
Use the MLE or tMLE to add one more bigman. I prefer Theis. Add a big body for the vet min or BAE (let´s say Meyers Leonard).
Hinton returns on a two-way deal.
Ball / Doncic / DFS / Kleber / Theis
Brunson/ THJ / S.Bey / Griffin / Stewart
Terry/ Green / Hart / T.Bey / Leonard
Hinton / 2nd round pick
Detroit is a bottom feeder so I don't think they'll want to ditch any of their young pieces why they rebuild. The only thing that KIP and JRich accomplish is ruining their chances at the lottery. You'd have an easier time convincing them to give up Grant for expirings, picks, prospects.
RE: ROSTER TALK: Mar 25 TDL | WAS among teams monitoring KP situation - Chicagojk - 02-25-2021
(02-25-2021, 09:55 PM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: Fire up the trade machine:
KP + Richardson --> Griffin + S. Bey + Stewart
Johnson + Burke + 2027 1st + 2024 2nd + 2025 2nd --> Ball + Hart + Melli , waive Iwundu
Try to add the Knicks as a 3rd team in one of the trades and lift the restricitons on the 2023 1st round pick to add value.
Don´t use the team option for WCS, no new contract for Boban. Resign Ball, Hart and THJ. Tyler Bey gets a fully guaranteed deal.
Use the MLE or tMLE to add one more bigman. I prefer Theis. Add a big body for the vet min or BAE (let´s say Meyers Leonard).
Hinton returns on a two-way deal.
Ball / Doncic / DFS / Kleber / Theis
Brunson/ THJ / S.Bey / Griffin / Stewart
Terry/ Green / Hart / T.Bey / Leonard
Hinton / 2nd round pick
I am a big fan of Josh Hart. Although with our current roster and other needs, I don't see a way to get him. Hart is another second round pick from the Lakers. They have made a killing on late first/second round picks. Most did not flourish in LA, but they have done a really nice job identifying these players.
I really think the Detroit offer is a no go for Detroit. They will either buyout Griffin or let him sit. Bey and Stewart (and hopefully Hayes) are their future. They need to hit on a few more lottery picks over the next few years. But it doesn't make sense to dump everything for an oft injured big man.
Also, unless Dallas has given up on KP. The best course of action is get him playing at a high level again. Then you either keep him and get better around them or move him then. I am not sure what you can get for him now, but I believe you would probably get a very discounted offer. Although I have changed my opinion that KP needs to be your third best player. Make him a wild card. If he is healthy he can be what we expect, but we need to protect ourselves.
RE: ROSTER TALK: Mar 25 TDL | WAS among teams monitoring KP situation - omahen - 02-25-2021
(02-25-2021, 09:55 PM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: Ball / Doncic / DFS / Kleber / Theis
Brunson/ THJ / S.Bey / Griffin / Stewart
Terry/ Green / Hart / T.Bey / Leonard
Hinton / 2nd round pick
Sorry, but this team is way worse than what we have now. A hard no from me.
RE: ROSTER TALK: Mar 25 TDL | WAS among teams monitoring KP situation - dirkfansince1998 - 02-25-2021
(02-25-2021, 10:01 PM)cow Wrote: Detroit is a bottom feeder so I don't think they'll want to ditch any of their young pieces why they rebuild. The only thing that KIP and JRich accomplish is ruining their chances at the lottery. You'd have an easier time convincing them to give up grant for exorings, picks, prospects.
KP sits out the season and gets back in shape for them. Pistons get a top 3 pick. Add Suggs or Cunningham. Build around the new PG, Grant and KP. For a team that hasn´t had any luck with free agents in the last couple of years that´s a tempting offer. Richardson will most likely expire so they don´t have to bring him back.
RE: ROSTER TALK: Mar 25 TDL | WAS among teams monitoring KP situation - cow - 02-25-2021
(02-25-2021, 10:07 PM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: KP sits out the season and gets back in shape for them. Pistons get a top 3 pick. Add Suggs or Cunningham. Build around the new PG, Grant and KP. For a team that hasn´t had any luck with free agents in the last couple of years that´s a tempting offer. Richardson will most likely expire so they don´t have to bring him back.
I'd rather just keep my young pieces, let Griffin sit or buy him out and build around Lottery/Grant/Bey.
RE: ROSTER TALK: Mar 25 TDL | WAS among teams monitoring KP situation - dirkfansince1998 - 02-25-2021
(02-25-2021, 10:03 PM)omahen Wrote: Sorry, but this team is way worse than what we have now. A hard no from me.
Not sure why? Compared to a team with healthy KP for an entire season. Of course.
Compared to the team that is currently playing. Clearly better and with more upside.
RE: ROSTER TALK: Mar 25 TDL | WAS among teams monitoring KP situation - omahen - 02-25-2021
(02-25-2021, 10:10 PM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: Not sure why? Compared to a team with healthy KP for an entire season. Of course.
Compared to the team that is currently playing. Clearly better and with more upside.
Omg. KP sits a couple of games and he is done? KP this season is 10 times better than Griffin. To even think about trading KP for that awful Griffin contract is "a crime". Not unless Detroit adds a couple of unprotected picks, but still Mavs are not in a tanking business, they are in building a contender business. That trade would put them like 5 years behind. I think you are hugely overrating the ceilings of Bey and Stewart, but we can agree to disagree on this one. Ball is an average guard, not really better than any of Brunson/JRich/THJ. Same goes for Hart. I like him, but he just doesn't improve our existing guard line.
RE: ROSTER TALK: Mar 25 TDL | WAS among teams monitoring KP situation - cow - 02-25-2021
What if you did Grant (prize)/Griffin (salary relief) for THJ (expiring), JJ (expiring), Powell (salary matching), Brunson (value) and a pick?
Why the Mavs do it? Grant gives them the two way player the covet. They pray to God they can squeeze something out of Griffin for the remaining two years.
Why the Mavs don't do it? THJ and JB are a ton of firepower on this squad right now.
Why does Detroit do it? Get off of Griffins salary. Grant doesn't fit their timeline. JB is a nice young piece that's worth a mid-to-late FRP. Powell's salary sucks but he gives you a veteran leader. Another pick for their rebuild.
Why Detroit doesn't do it? Can they get more value by just trading Grant by himself?
RE: ROSTER TALK: Mar 25 TDL | WAS among teams monitoring KP situation - dirkfansince1998 - 02-25-2021
(02-25-2021, 10:18 PM)omahen Wrote: Omg. KP sits a couple of games and he is done? KP this season is 10 times better than Griffin. To even think about trading KP for that awful Griffin contract is "a crime". Not unless Detroit adds a couple of unprotected picks, but still Mavs are not in a tanking business, they are in building a contender business. That trade would put them like 5 years behind. I think you are hugely overrating the ceilings of Bey and Stewart, but we can agree to disagree on this one. Ball is a average guard, not really better than any of Brunson/JRich/THJ. Same goes for Hart. I like him, but he just doesn't improve our existing guard line.
Mavs aren´t trading for Griffin. They are trading for two guys that were picked in the mid 1st round just a few month ago. If KP cannot stay healthy his contract is worse than Griffins. 4 years vs 2 years. Bey is already a DFS level player. Stewart has the best on/off among rookies this season (+8.5). As others pointed out the Pistons not giving them up for KP is the more likely scenario.
Ball has been great this season. 14/4/5. Shooting 39% from 3 on nearly 8 attempts. That´s THJ volume and efficiency. But Ball is a better playmaker, defender and rebounder.
Best on/off among qualified Pelicans (+7.9).
Sometimes I wonder if I am the only one that actually watches non Mavs games.
RE: ROSTER TALK: Mar 25 TDL | WAS among teams monitoring KP situation - dirkfansince1998 - 02-25-2021
(02-25-2021, 10:25 PM)cow Wrote: What if you did Grant (prize)/Griffin (salary relief) for THJ (expiring), JJ (expiring), Powell (salary matching), Brunson (value) and a pick?
They give up the best player. And would need to restart the rebuild. Grant wanted to be in Detroit and looks like a future core piece. Not sure about Brunson. They already have DSJ, Wright and Hayes. Brunson is obviously better than all of them but I think they will try to add a PG with superstar potential in the draft.
RE: ROSTER TALK: Mar 25 TDL | WAS among teams monitoring KP situation - cow - 02-25-2021
(02-25-2021, 10:32 PM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: They give up the best player. And would need to restart the rebuild. Grant wanted to be in Detroit and looks like a future core piece. Not sure about Brunson. They already have DSJ, Wright and Hayes. Brunson is obviously better than all of them but I think they will try to add a PG with superstar potential in the draft.
Grant didn't want to be in Detroit so much as he wanted to be the focal point of an offense. He gambled on himself in order to earn his next, much larger pay day. Fair points otherwise, but JB would give them flexibility in who they could draft. At worst, he's a rock solid backup who can pinch hit in a starting role.
RE: ROSTER TALK: Mar 25 TDL | WAS among teams monitoring KP situation - omahen - 02-25-2021
(02-25-2021, 10:26 PM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: If KP cannot stay healthy his contract is worse than Griffins.
Guy misses 3 games and it is all panic... This year KP is worth way more than two role playing rookies with questionable ceiling. Especially, if you are eating that Griffin contract. Mavs obviously didn't think much of Bey anyway... And I fully understand Griffin is not the prize. He is arguably the worst contract in the league right now.
As for KP injuries. If he is broken, every team will find that out as they all do their physicals before they actually make a trade. So Mavs by far the best option is to get him back on the field playing.
RE: ROSTER TALK: Mar 25 TDL | WAS among teams monitoring KP situation - dirkfansince1998 - 02-25-2021
(02-25-2021, 10:37 PM)cow Wrote: Grant didn't want to be in Detroit so much as he wanted to be the focal point of an offense. He gambled on himself in order to earn his next, much larger pay day. Fair points otherwise, but JB would give them flexibility in who they could draft. At worst, he's a rock solid backup who can pinch hit in a starting role.
He obviously wanted a bigger role but he is a big supporter of social justice and BLM movements. Detroit as a city and the Pistons with a black headcoach + GM made a lot of sense.
RE: ROSTER TALK: Mar 25 TDL | WAS among teams monitoring KP situation - cow - 02-25-2021
(02-25-2021, 10:45 PM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: He obviously wanted a bigger role but he is a big supporter of social justice and BLM movements. Detroit as a city and the Pistons with a black headcoach + GM made a lot of sense.
I'm not knocking him for the decision. More money means he can further his causes. You could be right and he's absolutely happy in Detroit and wants to help them with a rebuild.
RE: ROSTER TALK: Mar 25 TDL | WAS among teams monitoring KP situation - dirkfansince1998 - 02-25-2021
(02-25-2021, 10:40 PM)omahen Wrote: Guy misses 3 games and it is all panic... This year KP is worth way more than two role playing rookies with questionable ceiling. Especially, if you are eating that Griffin contract. Mavs obviously didn't think much of Bey anyway... And I fully understand Griffin is not the prize. He is arguably the worst contract in the league right now.
As for KP injuries. If he is broken, every team will find that out as they all do their physicals before they actually make a trade. So Mavs by far the best option is to get him back on the field playing.
Somebody stole your cookie or are you just angry about the loss? There is no point to discuss this any further if you are just going to dismiss that KPs injury concerns are real. Maybe I am going to far in the opposite direction but looking at other boards, twitter and rumors around the league KPs trade value is not what you want it to be.
Might even be negative (I hope not).
If KP can stay heathly you are right but even if you want it to be the case that´s not a given. Maybe his trade value right now is higher than it will ever be in the future.
It´s hilarious that you bring up Griffin as the worst contract in the league (not even close by the way) but ignore the similarities to KPs situation. An injury prone player that turned into a defensive liability. Sounds familar?
RE: ROSTER TALK: Mar 25 TDL | WAS among teams monitoring KP situation - omahen - 02-25-2021
(02-25-2021, 10:53 PM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: twitter and rumors around the league KPs trade value is not what you want it to be.
I can accept that, but if his value is that low, I am certainly not trading him. I take the risk his value will improve.
RE: ROSTER TALK: Mar 25 TDL | WAS among teams monitoring KP situation - omahen - 02-25-2021
(02-25-2021, 10:53 PM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: Somebody stole your cookie or are you just angry about the loss?
I guess all those KP negativism on the board just piled up in me and you were the "victim" of more heated arguments from my side. Nothing personal
RE: ROSTER TALK: Mar 25 TDL | WAS among teams monitoring KP situation - dirkfansince1998 - 02-25-2021
(02-25-2021, 11:04 PM)omahen Wrote: I guess all those KP negativism on the board just piled up in me and you were the "victim" of more heated arguments from my side. Nothing personal
Happens to all of us. Losing sucks and the recent development is the perfect environment for a lot of hottakes. Including some of my trade proposals.
For the record: I don´t think the Mavs will trade KP anytime soon but it is incredible frustrating to watch the team right now. Even in wins I rarely enjoy watching them. Outside of some magical moments from Luka or the rare Brunson/THJ hot strech the team looks really bad.
KP is the target because we expect the production and impact of a max contract player. It´s difficult to build a team when one of the star players misses 1/3 of all games and needs another 1/3 to get back in shape. I guess some of us are just getting tired of it.