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+--- Thread: 2019-2020 Mavs Trade Discussion + Salary Chart (/showthread.php?tid=206)
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RE: Mavs Trade Ideas + Salary Chart - StepBackJay - 01-13-2020
(01-12-2020, 10:47 PM)Scott41theMavs Wrote: To me, the Powell issue is really basic: what do you want from a big in the modern NBA? 1) Rebounds. 2) Rim protection. 3) Post defense. 4) Ability to stretch a defense with a three-point threat. 5) Picks. 6) Rim-rolling. Powell is good at the last two. He's rather pitiful at the first four. First double-double of the year? Are you friggin' kidding me?
Powell brings something quite helpful to the floor for the Mavs, but it's not $10 mil per year for the next four years helpful. And I will join SBJ and anyone else on the barricades that the Mavs will never contend with Powell in the starting lineup - not even if the Mavs found a way to add RoCo and Bog next to him with Luka and KP. He's a bench player who is paid like something more, and perhaps the biggest problem with him is not so much the contract as the Mavs' overbelief and overreliance on him.
So I am less harsh on Powell but basically come to the same conclusion. I think Powell benefits a lot from being a system player in Rick's system. I'd also say Powell's success as a roll man is more about Rick than Powell. Remember before Powell we had Brandan Wright who I loved who was in my view a better version of the Powell we have now. His last year here Wright had a FG of 67%. The beauty of Wright was that he was also a great weak side shot blocker. He had matchup issues but he did have a lot of success here overall. My theory with Powell is that if you replaced him with someone who had skills in rim-rolling AND defense you'd be much better off. Rick would take a "good" rim-roller and make him great bc he's putting him next to Luka in great situations.
I also think Powell is already basically a co-starter with Maxi (26, 24 mpg respectively). If Powell was as great as this board says, I believe he'd be more towards 29-30 mpg. Again Powell is fine but he needs to come off the bench long-term for this team to contend.
RE: Mavs Trade Ideas + Salary Chart - fifteenth - 01-13-2020
(01-13-2020, 03:27 PM)StepBackJay Wrote: So I am less harsh on Powell but basically come to the same conclusion. I think Powell benefits a lot from being a system player in Rick's system. I'd also say Powell's success as a roll man is more about Rick than Powell. Remember before Powell we had Brandan Wright who I loved who was in my view a better version of the Powell we have now. His last year here Wright had a FG of 67%.
I think the "system player" thing for Powell is a little overstated on the forum. In 9 years the Mavs have had 3 players able to produce as a roll man (Powell, BW, and Tyson). If it was as simple as plug and play then I think we would have found more candidates to fill the position. Also, "system player" seems a bit dismissive of a guy who might be the best in the league at what he does. I have no problem giving Rick tons of credit, but I don't want to use the skill of the coach to diminish the accomplishments of the player.
(01-13-2020, 03:27 PM)StepBackJay Wrote: The beauty of Wright was that he was also a great weak side shot blocker.
Agree with that! But then Powell moves better and can do a bit more with the ball in his hands. And then BW could score better on post ups.
(01-13-2020, 03:27 PM)StepBackJay Wrote: My theory with Powell is that if you replaced him with someone who had skills in rim-rolling AND defense you'd be much better off.
Of course you'd take someone who can roll like Powell and do other things better than Powell!
(01-13-2020, 03:27 PM)StepBackJay Wrote: If Powell was as great as this board says...
Perspective is a funny thing, LOL. I always think that Powell is one of the forum's two favorite whipping boys.
RE: Mavs Trade Ideas + Salary Chart - StepBackJay - 01-13-2020
@"fifteenth" just seems like Powell defenders have come out of the wood-works lately.
Re: "Of course you'd take someone who can roll like Powell and do other things better than Powell!" - I am saying even if said big has a lesser reputation than Powell, Rick & Doncic will make him near elite. I want Favors in a bad way. He's a good defender and good offensive player.
Look at what Houston did to Faried last year. The Rockets have a similar system as the Mavs, especially for the roll man. Faried stepped in off the street and gave them 13/8 a night for vet min. Now he's back on his couch I guess. It was just weird to watch him and be like ya Powell is definitely 40 million dollars better than Kenneth Faried.
RE: Mavs Trade Ideas + Salary Chart - fifteenth - 01-13-2020
(01-13-2020, 06:09 PM)StepBackJay Wrote: @fifteenth just seems like Powell defenders have come out of the wood-works lately.
Hmm, I wonder what precipitates that.
RE: Mavs Trade Ideas + Salary Chart - omahen - 01-13-2020
A couple of ideas:
1. Kleber for Zubac and Shamet. Clipps need better interior defender and there were some theories about Baynes. Mavs get two prospects locked on long term low contracts. I am not really sure Kleber would be the answer Clipps are looking for.
2. Ed Davis was a fan favorite in summer, but he just isn't working in Utah. Mavs are desperate for another big. He is on a similar contract as Bobi, so Utah would probably be happy to get rid of his two times five millions for no production. A second rounder, cash or Roby?
RE: Mavs Trade Ideas + Salary Chart - cow - 01-13-2020
(01-13-2020, 06:09 PM)StepBackJay Wrote: @"fifteenth" just seems like Powell defenders have come out of the wood-works lately.
Re: "Of course you'd take someone who can roll like Powell and do other things better than Powell!" - I am saying even if said big has a lesser reputation than Powell, Rick & Doncic will make him near elite. I want Favors in a bad way. He's a good defender and good offensive player.
Look at what Houston did to Faried last year. The Rockets have a similar system as the Mavs, especially for the roll man. Faried stepped in off the street and gave them 13/8 a night for vet min. Now he's back on his couch I guess. It was just weird to watch him and be like ya Powell is definitely 40 million dollars better than Kenneth Faried.
It's puff, puff, pass and not puff, puff, puff. On the old board and the new, Powell catches too much unwarranted grief. At least the old board had Mak's undying love to counter some of the overzealous hate.
RE: Mavs Trade Ideas + Salary Chart - StepBackJay - 01-13-2020
Y'all still haven't addressed how and why Powell is worth 40 mil than Kenneth Faried who is sitting on his couch. Obviously the Mavs think he's worth that, I still don't.
RE: Mavs Trade Ideas + Salary Chart - Baller AI - 01-13-2020
Powell. One of the most polarizing players on the team (the most now that THJ proved his haters wrong).
Dwight is not bad at basketball. Looking at the 2 other centers people have mentioned thrived in Rick's system (Tyson, Wright), DP is a hybrid of both. All three had one thing in common, excellent rim rollers and lob threats. DP is not as well rounded as Tyson (Tyson could hit midrange shots, rebound and was also an elite defender) Wright is the opposite, more specialized in rim rolling, but not as physical and good at defense as Dwight. Dwight is a bigger Wright, and he clearly fits in our offensive system very well. When we criticize him, understand it is all relative. He is asked to do a lot for this team (more than he is capable of often) especially when KP is out. Dwight Powell is an excellent rollman and lob threat; he brings contagious energy and hustle, and exemplifies the Mavs culture. He is important to this team.
A good team is one where all the pieces fit and can cover for eachothers weaker areas. KP and dwight fit perfectly as far as offensive skillset, a huge reason for our elite offense.
The issue is that, due to his defensive deficiencies and poor rebounding, KP has to work so much harder on those ends (Luka on the boards as well). Lebron's bigmen pound KP and the problem is that Dwight Powell cannot do what KP does on defense and on the boards. KP should ideally not have to check the opposing teams best bigs because he is just does not have the frame and body to take that sort of beating on a nightly basis; while also being asked to carry the offensive load behind Luka.He got injured by Howard, which is why hes out rn. I am worried about his long term durability if the situation is not addressed.
What this team needs to be worried about is both LA matchups in the playoffs. They will kill us on the wing and in the paint.
Bron's team has 3 very physical bigs, who always dominate us and go at KP hard.
The Clippers have two of the best two-way forwards in the league and Montrezl is a force to be reckoned with as well. DFS has shown he can hold his own, but he needs help on defense for this matchup especially.
We address these issues through trades (im focusing in contending this year because we have a legit shot).
ideally we add a wing/forward and another center.no high risk trades because we don't need that rn. We have the best offense, and with upgrades to those positions, we can confidently go into the playoffs.
Wings:
ROCO, Bogdanovic, Iguodala
Bigs:
Dieng, Favors, Baynes, Mahinmi, Gordon, Bamba, Dedmon
My ideal trade scenario is with Minny for ROCO/Dieng. Roco is everything we hoped Wes could be and is bigger more positionally flexible. Dieng is extremely underrated and young. He is athletic, can shoot threes and midrange, has a post game, and can rum run and catch lobs. He has shown he wants to win and has clashed with Minny. The thing is even Jimmy Butler did that for the same reasons. Dieng is cut from that cloth, hes a competitor and has said all he wants to do is win games (Kat and Maple Jordan aren't exactly known for their competetive fire). Gorgui can bang with the opposition to keep them off KP and Luka a bit. In every sense, he is a truly well rounded, multidimensional player,
and I can only dream of what Rick could turn him into (I truly believe an all-star caliber big).
As far as outgoing pieces:
Lee, Wright, Jackson, non GS 2nd round pick
GS 2nd (hopefully keep, but more expendable than Brunson/Powell)
Brunson, Dwight Powell (ideally we keep them)
I really think if we end up not making trades for some pipedream 21 scenario, we are taking a HUGE risk. We have a chance to win right now, and you have to take it. Anything can happen in the NBA, and with the best offense in nba history now is the time to strike.
^I may be forgetting some other guys out there but those were who came to mind
RE: Mavs Trade Ideas + Salary Chart - ClutchDirk - 01-13-2020
Dallas’ most-often-used starting lineup, consisting of Doncic, Porzingis, Hardaway, Dorian Finney-Smith and Dwight Powell, has produced a record of 11-4.
RE: Mavs Trade Ideas + Salary Chart - Jym - 01-13-2020
(01-13-2020, 08:08 PM)StepBackJay Wrote: Y'all still haven't addressed how and why Powell is worth 40 mil than Kenneth Faried who is sitting on his couch. Obviously the Mavs think he's worth that, I still don't.
It certainly looks like an overpay, but you generally know what you'll get from Powell over the next 4 years.
With Faried? Who the hell knows
He signed a $4.4 mil deal with a Chinese team and played pretty well but ended up getting cut halfway through the year.
"There is currently no indication of why Faried was released from the Chinese league squad, although a report out of Chinesepublication Xinhua on December 6 indicated that Faried was sidelined with an injury."
https://www.slamonline.com/nba/kenneth-faried-released-by-chinese-team/
RE: Mavs Trade Ideas + Salary Chart - omahen - 01-13-2020
(01-13-2020, 08:44 PM)Baller AI Wrote: Dieng is extremely underrated and young.
While I agree with you that Dieng is not completely useless, you got the age wrong. He is 30, so not really young by any standards.
RE: Mavs Trade Ideas + Salary Chart - Jym - 01-13-2020
(01-13-2020, 08:44 PM)Baller AI Wrote: I really think if we end up not making trades for some pipedream 21 scenario, we are taking a HUGE risk.
By far my biggest fear.
Unleash Donnie and let him do some trade magic.
RE: Mavs Trade Ideas + Salary Chart - IamDougieFresh - 01-13-2020
(01-13-2020, 03:27 PM)StepBackJay Wrote: My theory with Powell is that if you replaced him with someone who had skills in rim-rolling AND defense you'd be much better off.
Yeah if only we had someone who was one of the best overall defenders in the league, was 90th percentile PnR rollman, and to top it all off was shooting 40% from 3.
![[Image: giphy.gif]](https://media.giphy.com/media/fUq79oqDDu4qfzibKv/giphy.gif)
RE: Mavs Trade Ideas + Salary Chart - Baller AI - 01-13-2020
(01-13-2020, 09:19 PM)omahen Wrote:(01-13-2020, 08:44 PM)Baller AI Wrote: Dieng is extremely underrated and young.
While I agree with you that Dieng is not completely useless, you got the age wrong. He is 30, so not really young by any standards.
Hes 29, not super young, but hes underutilized and not old.
RE: Mavs Trade Ideas + Salary Chart - cow - 01-13-2020
(01-13-2020, 08:08 PM)StepBackJay Wrote: Y'all still haven't addressed how and why Powell is worth 40 mil than Kenneth Faried who is sitting on his couch. Obviously the Mavs think he's worth that, I still don't.
You don't have to trust the Mavs assessment of Manimal. Every other team in the league prefers his butt on his couch instead of their bench.
RE: Mavs Trade Ideas + Salary Chart - Baller AI - 01-14-2020
ROCO and Gorgui are both 29 so we'd get them in their prime. Keep in mind they would certainly play better with The Chosen One, the Unicorn and Rick, than on the the wolves with Maple Jordan and a cat.
This season 3 point percentage
Roco: 34.7%
Dieng: 38.9%
Diengs three point attemps and percentages have gone up each year, showing that hes trying to get better. He recently said he worked hard on his form over the offseason and it shows. I like him because he has experience playing with another big, although KP is more perimeter oriented, but I think that compliments him better than KAT. I would potentially start him (sorry Dwightsexuals). Either way, having a frontcourt of Gorgui, Maxi, KP, Dwight, death lineup ROCO, and Boban would still be insane and very adaptable.
ROCO is shooting a little off this season, but last season he shot 39% with Philly. Hopefully its just a slump and being on a more competent team will help him find it again. THJ seems to need to start so either DFS or he would have to be benched.Maybe they both close games against the Clippers on Kawhi and PG, who knows.
Either way both Gorgui and Roco bring good defense and rebounding, making them impactful players from day one. More importantly, they would fill positions of need and help us matchup with other contenders. The ideal team for the Luka/Lebron type superstar, is one with a ton of shooters.
RE: Mavs Trade Ideas + Salary Chart - Mapka - 01-14-2020
(01-13-2020, 06:58 PM)omahen Wrote: A couple of ideas:
1. Kleber for Zubac and Shamet. Clipps need better interior defender and there were some theories about Baynes. Mavs get two prospects locked on long term low contracts. I am not really sure Kleber would be the answer Clipps are looking for.
2. Ed Davis was a fan favorite in summer, but he just isn't working in Utah. Mavs are desperate for another big. He is on a similar contract as Bobi, so Utah would probably be happy to get rid of his two times five millions for no production. A second rounder, cash or Roby?
I don't even want to think about Maxi behind Kawhi and PG und PatBev .. there is no chance in hell we make them even better.
I have really hard time seeing someone I would trade Kleber for. He is just so perfect as a KP- clone and Luka lookalike on a ultra-bargain.
RE: Mavs Trade Ideas + Salary Chart - StepBackJay - 01-14-2020
(01-13-2020, 10:28 PM)cow Wrote:(01-13-2020, 08:08 PM)StepBackJay Wrote: Y'all still haven't addressed how and why Powell is worth 40 mil than Kenneth Faried who is sitting on his couch. Obviously the Mavs think he's worth that, I still don't.
You don't have to trust the Mavs assessment of Manimal. Every other team in the league prefers his butt on his couch instead of their bench.
Are we sure those teams would be lining up to pay Powell if he was on the street?
(01-13-2020, 09:26 PM)IamDougieFresh Wrote:(01-13-2020, 03:27 PM)StepBackJay Wrote: My theory with Powell is that if you replaced him with someone who had skills in rim-rolling AND defense you'd be much better off.
Yeah if only we had someone who was one of the best overall defenders in the league, was 90th percentile PnR rollman, and to top it all off was shooting 40% from 3.
Ya I don't understand why he doesn't start but he will close games sometimes. He is kind of a co-starter with Powell when you look at mpg.
@"cow" my point isn't that Faried is worth 40 mil, it's that Powell is more towards a cheaper rotation big than he is a starter. Btw if Faried isn't injured I'd love for the Mavs to put him on their bench, he would be more useful than Boban most nights.
RE: Mavs Trade Ideas + Salary Chart - fifteenth - 01-14-2020
(01-14-2020, 09:19 AM)StepBackJay Wrote: Are we sure those teams would be lining up to pay Powell if he was on the street?
Do we know why teams aren't lining up to pull Faried off his couch?
RE: Mavs Trade Ideas + Salary Chart - StepBackJay - 01-14-2020
(01-14-2020, 09:44 AM)fifteenth Wrote:(01-14-2020, 09:19 AM)StepBackJay Wrote: Are we sure those teams would be lining up to pay Powell if he was on the street?
Do we know why teams aren't lining up to pull Faried off his couch?
I do not. He made the logic choice to get paid more in China while still having an opportunity to latch onto an NBA team afterwards. He got cut and might be injured, altho he's getting worked out by the Spurs.
Watch this highlight and tell me you wouldn't want him on your bench for vet min: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=16TP_ctgdfQ