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RE: Mavs Trade Ideas + Salary Chart - ItsGoTime - 12-27-2019
(12-27-2019, 07:30 PM)StepBackJay Wrote: I think I agree but not if you are saying Mavs shouldn't get Favors. Favors can play the same role Powell does but play better defense and rebound. Powell's defense is still a real problem. He got lit up again by Aldridge. I imagine Favors would have had more success making LA uncomfortable. Now to Powell's credit he lot up LA on the other end with several alley oops. Favors can roll to the basket as well. You can have both players. Mavs need more depth anyway. Powell would be much better suited off the bench where his defensive shortcomings are not exposed. Favors can still roll to the rim with Luka.So much this...so, so, so much this.
I still haven't gotten the answer to my question asked so many times. If Powell is your starting C, why, when looking for a C upgrade, do we need to get a 3 point shooter?
RE: Mavs Trade Ideas + Salary Chart - SkenfromLMF - 12-27-2019
(12-27-2019, 08:09 PM)ItsGoTime Wrote:(12-27-2019, 07:30 PM)StepBackJay Wrote: You can have both players. Mavs need more depth anyway. Powell would be much better suited off the bench where his defensive shortcomings are not exposed. Favors can still roll to the rim with Luka.So much this...so, so, so much this.
I still haven't gotten the answer to my question asked so many times. If Powell is your starting C, why, when looking for a C upgrade, do we need to get a 3 point shooter?
The answer to that question is that Rick wants a player that allow Porzingas to do both. He would like a player that could completely switch roles with KP so that defenses cannot play him one way. With Powell on the floor you can play Porzingas as a spot up shooter and IF KP is setting up P&R then Powell's man can help the lane defense because Powell is not quite the shooter KP is.
The interesting role here is that Maxi seems more valuable than DP even though he doesn't start. KP and Maxi should be more interchangeable on the floor together, he doesn't have DP's roll game, but he is a better roller than DP is a shooter.
Point being that an upgrade to us on defense has to have these skill sets to get on the floor offensively.
RE: Mavs Trade Ideas + Salary Chart - ItsGoTime - 12-28-2019
(12-27-2019, 11:12 PM)SkenfromLMF Wrote:I've never heard or read about him saying that, where did I miss that discussion?(12-27-2019, 08:09 PM)ItsGoTime Wrote:(12-27-2019, 07:30 PM)StepBackJay Wrote: You can have both players. Mavs need more depth anyway. Powell would be much better suited off the bench where his defensive shortcomings are not exposed. Favors can still roll to the rim with Luka.So much this...so, so, so much this.
I still haven't gotten the answer to my question asked so many times. If Powell is your starting C, why, when looking for a C upgrade, do we need to get a 3 point shooter?
The answer to that question is that Rick wants a player that allow Porzingas to do both. He would like a player that could completely switch roles with KP so that defenses cannot play him one way. With Powell on the floor you can play Porzingas as a spot up shooter and IF KP is setting up P&R then Powell's man can help the lane defense because Powell is not quite the shooter KP is.
The interesting role here is that Maxi seems more valuable than DP even though he doesn't start. KP and Maxi should be more interchangeable on the floor together, he doesn't have DP's roll game, but he is a better roller than DP is a shooter.
Point being that an upgrade to us on defense has to have these skill sets to get on the floor offensively.
As people keep saying, we have the #1 offense ever with Powell doing what he's doing. If you upgrade him with a guy who can play better defensively and still do what he's doing for the most part on offense, why is that "the devil" as my momma keeps telling me. In other words, the question is still not answered IMO.
Salary, offseason promises, and Mark's love affair with Powell is the only reason I can come up with in answer to why Maxi is not playing more with the starters. It's probably something else or this with something else added to it, but it just seems the eye test says Maxi should be with the starters more than DP. Although, I don't think MK is starter quality either, he seems to do worse when he has started in the past (haven't researched those numbers either).
Which skill sets? I would love to have a good to great defensive player who doesn't easily get pushed around and can shoot 3's, there are maybe a few guys in the league with that ability. Once you drop the requirement of having to shoot 3's, the list opens up considerably as does the money value of the player and the availability. The 3 is something that might be developed over a couple seasons too (might, because we know DP has been working on it over a few seasons and it has not panned out for him, then again, it took him a few seasons to figure out how to set a decent pick, roll to the basket, then jump to catch a lob pass and dunk it...).
RE: Mavs Trade Ideas + Salary Chart - Dundalis - 12-28-2019
(12-27-2019, 08:36 AM)DanSchwartzman Wrote:(12-27-2019, 07:17 AM)Dundalis Wrote: Did anyone actually listen to Rick's postgame presser?
Because if you did, there is no more candid way for the coach to say what I've been saying for a while now about the type of players needed to fit into this teams system.
There's no way you can listen to that and think the Mavs would have remotely any interest in bringing in a bunch of the bigs we've identified as trade targets. If they can't shoot the 3 or aren't high level roll threats (basically be effective spending the majority of their time on offense standing on the 3 point line), there's no point talking about them (unless they can do what Boban does better, and are willing to play a similar bit part role).
There are two reasons (three if you count the misguided opinions of some here regarding Powell) for considering the addition of some kind of big man.
1. Depth. I'm not sure we survive a Powell or Maxi or KP injury nearly as well as we did the Luka injury. We are extremely thin up front and don't have a good answer if one of them goes down.
2. Post D. Dallas seems happy to leave Powell on an island guarding the Aldridge's and Davis's of the world. It isn't a good look as they score fairly easily on him (of course, we've played pretty well against teams with the biggest bigs...maybe Carlisle is onto something)
I think you are right about bigs either needing to be good PnR guys or 3 point shooters (or both). I loved the idea of adding Favors last year and summer. He's in the 28% percentile of roll men this year, but last year, on a team with no spacing but a good PG, he was in the 72nd percentile. I'm not sure where the minutes would come from, but I like the idea of adding someone more mobile that Boban to the front court, but big enough to hold their own on post D. Do you trade for him? Or use the MLE this summer?
John Henson is a REALLY good defender and has been hitting his corner 3's the last two seasons. He'd be really cheap to acquire and wouldn't command 30 minutes a night like some bigger name bigs. Former Mav's summer league player Christian Wood hits 3's and is a top roll man. Good name to keep an eye on this summer as he is unrestricted. He and Bruce Brown are actually the guys I'm interested in from Detroit...not the bigger dollar bigger name guys. Bertans and Harrell are two other summer names. Even someone like Meyers Leonard would be a fit and wouldn't cost a ton. Dieng is a good defender and a good roll man, but you'd have to pay me something to take on his money and Minnesota is thin on currency. I don't think we need a star big and we certainly don't need a back to the basket guy who ruins our spacing. Anyone who watches the video posted about how the bigger ball dominant players like Luka, Hardin and Lebron are changing the game know exactly what their teams value and you've nailed it.
Myles Turner is the only big I've heard that is available that fits the 3&D requirement pretty well. Favors just doesn't move the needle for me and there's too much risk he clogs the offense if his rim running isn't up to snuff. Dunno if we have any chance of getting him (probably don't have the assets), but he would be such a perfect fit, not only due to skill set, but also due to his age and therefore timeline with Luka and KP.
RE: Mavs Trade Ideas + Salary Chart - StepBackJay - 12-28-2019
As best as I can tell the only reason Maxi doesn't start is that the Mavs need/want him to spell KP. He is really the only guy who can do that. They do play some together but if Maxi started then you wouldn't have a backup off the bench that Rick likes. I am fairly confident this is why he isn't starting. If Mavs get another big like Favors then it could bump Powell back to the bench where he and Maxi can dominate the other teams bench.
RE: Mavs Trade Ideas + Salary Chart - ItsGoTime - 12-28-2019
(12-28-2019, 09:55 AM)StepBackJay Wrote: If Mavs get another big like Favors then it could bump Powell back to the bench where he and Maxi can dominate the other teams bench.SO much this. How much greater could the bench get? Put Powell and Maxi there and watch the domination!
Powell/Maxi/Curry/Wright/Brunson ... DOMINATION!
Favors fits so well in this way as well as being a guy that can be a much better upgrade to the starting unit, I just don't understand why the FO doesn't see it. High character guy, who has shown the ability to play the pick and roll effectively, much better defender and is a hustle guy too, I just don't get it.
I honestly believe Favors is to KP as Chandler was to Dirk.
RE: Mavs Trade Ideas + Salary Chart - Dundalis - 12-28-2019
(12-28-2019, 10:06 AM)ItsGoTime Wrote:(12-28-2019, 09:55 AM)StepBackJay Wrote: If Mavs get another big like Favors then it could bump Powell back to the bench where he and Maxi can dominate the other teams bench.SO much this. How much greater could the bench get? Put Powell and Maxi there and watch the domination!
Powell/Maxi/Curry/Wright/Brunson ... DOMINATION!
Favors fits so well in this way as well as being a guy that can be a much better upgrade to the starting unit, I just don't understand why the FO doesn't see it. High character guy, who has shown the ability to play the pick and roll effectively, much better defender and is a hustle guy too, I just don't get it.
Shaq and Barkley don't get it either. Lot's of people don't get it. The Mavs do get it though, and I'm comfortable in the belief they are just smarter than all the arm chair experts out there who don't get it. Donnie will go after a player that fits into the analytics based offense we run, and if he's successful, great, and if he's not, he won't panic into trading for a guy that doesn't fit what we want to bring in.
RE: Mavs Trade Ideas + Salary Chart - DanSchwartzgan - 12-28-2019
(12-28-2019, 09:45 AM)ItsGoTime Wrote:
Salary, offseason promises, and Mark's love affair with Powell is the only reason I can come up with in answer to why Maxi is not playing more with the starters. It's probably something else or this with something else added to it, but it just seems the eye test says Maxi should be with the starters more than DP.
When Powell is on the floor with KP, the net rating is 13.5
When Maxi is on the floor with KP, the net rating is 2.9
No mystery here.
(12-28-2019, 09:52 AM)Dundalis Wrote: Myles Turner is the only big I've heard that is available that fits the 3&D requirement pretty well.
I'd add Christian Wood (UFA this summer and former Mav summer league player). Marcus Morris would move the needle, but not sure you'd consider him a "big". More of a 3/4 or 4/3.
RE: Mavs Trade Ideas + Salary Chart - ItsGoTime - 12-28-2019
(12-28-2019, 10:27 AM)DanSchwartzman Wrote:So then the better floor spacer is worse than having Powell out there? We need another floor spacer with KP why?(12-28-2019, 09:45 AM)ItsGoTime Wrote: Salary, offseason promises, and Mark's love affair with Powell is the only reason I can come up with in answer to why Maxi is not playing more with the starters. It's probably something else or this with something else added to it, but it just seems the eye test says Maxi should be with the starters more than DP.When Powell is on the floor with KP, the net rating is 13.5
When Maxi is on the floor with KP, the net rating is 2.9
No mystery here.
(12-28-2019, 10:12 AM)Dundalis Wrote:I worded that incorrectly because I have no idea what the FO thinks about Favors or any other player to be brought in here thought to be an upgrade on Powell (there are a few direct quotes on some players). I don't think you do either. You're content in the thought that they will always do what's best for the team, I'm not. I think they make mistakes. You may be content with saying they make mistakes, but you are not willing to try to figure out where those mistakes are, I'm not that way.(12-28-2019, 10:06 AM)ItsGoTime Wrote:(12-28-2019, 09:55 AM)StepBackJay Wrote: If Mavs get another big like Favors then it could bump Powell back to the bench where he and Maxi can dominate the other teams bench.SO much this. How much greater could the bench get? Put Powell and Maxi there and watch the domination!
Powell/Maxi/Curry/Wright/Brunson ... DOMINATION!
Favors fits so well in this way as well as being a guy that can be a much better upgrade to the starting unit, I just don't understand why the FO doesn't see it. High character guy, who has shown the ability to play the pick and roll effectively, much better defender and is a hustle guy too, I just don't get it.
Shaq and Barkley don't get it either. Lot's of people don't get it. The Mavs do get it though, and I'm comfortable in the belief they are just smarter than all the arm chair experts out there who don't get it. Donnie will go after a player that fits into the analytics based offense we run, and if he's successful, great, and if he's not, he won't panic into trading for a guy that doesn't fit what we want to bring in.
RE: Mavs Trade Ideas + Salary Chart - DanSchwartzgan - 12-28-2019
(12-28-2019, 10:44 AM)ItsGoTime Wrote:(12-28-2019, 10:27 AM)DanSchwartzman Wrote:So then the better floor spacer is worse than having Powell out there? We need another floor spacer with KP why?(12-28-2019, 09:45 AM)ItsGoTime Wrote: Salary, offseason promises, and Mark's love affair with Powell is the only reason I can come up with in answer to why Maxi is not playing more with the starters. It's probably something else or this with something else added to it, but it just seems the eye test says Maxi should be with the starters more than DP.When Powell is on the floor with KP, the net rating is 13.5
When Maxi is on the floor with KP, the net rating is 2.9
No mystery here.
What I have said is any big needs to do one or both (spread the floor or be good at PnR) and they have to play D. Powell, KP and Maxi are ranked 7th, 9th and 18th among PF's at D-RPM. I'm not a (fill in the blank) INSTEAD of Powell guy. I'm a (fill in the blank) in addition to Powell guy.
RE: Mavs Trade Ideas + Salary Chart - ItsGoTime - 12-28-2019
(12-28-2019, 11:15 AM)DanSchwartzman Wrote: I'm a (fill in the blank) in addition to Powell guy.So am I. Would love to see this second unit with 2 bigs that already have proven to work really well together in that role. Would probably mean going back to less minutes for both, but I think that is also very optimal for both of them.
Big rotation:
KP - 30 mpg
DP - 22 mpg
MK - 22 mpg
(fill in the blank) - 22 mpg
KP with 2 less mpg might help with that load management thing, less miles on the big body over a long season. You would not want DP and (fill in the blank) to share the court together, so most if not all, of the (fill in the blank) player minutes would come with KP, any minutes not with him would be with MK which gives DP some time with KP. This also means, like the SA game, you'd almost always have 2 bigs in the game.
Favors has had a pretty good rebounding year, esp ORebs. Add his 3.3 ORebs to the 6.9 that KP, DP, MK and DFS already get (I know it wouldn't be that simple) and our second chance points/offense is even more potent! Getting 2-3 more 3P attempts/attempts in the paint per game would be amazing!
RE: Mavs Trade Ideas + Salary Chart - StepBackJay - 12-28-2019
(12-28-2019, 10:27 AM)DanSchwartzman Wrote:(12-28-2019, 09:45 AM)ItsGoTime Wrote: Salary, offseason promises, and Mark's love affair with Powell is the only reason I can come up with in answer to why Maxi is not playing more with the starters. It's probably something else or this with something else added to it, but it just seems the eye test says Maxi should be with the starters more than DP.
When Powell is on the floor with KP, the net rating is 13.5
When Maxi is on the floor with KP, the net rating is 2.9
No mystery here.
Powell lineups do have a better net ratings. Hard to understand bc that includes lineups with Maxi and other starters. Also Brunson is in two lineups that have great net ratings somehow including a very good defensive rating. That doesn't make sense as Brunson doesn't appear to be a very good defender.
I still conclude you put Powell on the bench where he can dominate and Favors in the lineup where he can impact offense, defense and rebounding and you have a formula that can compete for a championship. Mavs can keep this core together as long as they want and/or try to upgrade THJ in the summer while having Favors in the fold. I wish they would but I am fairly confident they will try to get another star in 2021 which is pretty much Giannis, Oladipo and older Jrue Holiday + some other aging stars.
RE: Mavs Trade Ideas + Salary Chart - Dundalis - 12-29-2019
(12-28-2019, 10:44 AM)ItsGoTime Wrote:(12-28-2019, 10:27 AM)DanSchwartzman Wrote:So then the better floor spacer is worse than having Powell out there? We need another floor spacer with KP why?(12-28-2019, 09:45 AM)ItsGoTime Wrote: Salary, offseason promises, and Mark's love affair with Powell is the only reason I can come up with in answer to why Maxi is not playing more with the starters. It's probably something else or this with something else added to it, but it just seems the eye test says Maxi should be with the starters more than DP.When Powell is on the floor with KP, the net rating is 13.5
When Maxi is on the floor with KP, the net rating is 2.9
No mystery here.
(12-28-2019, 10:12 AM)Dundalis Wrote:I worded that incorrectly because I have no idea what the FO thinks about Favors or any other player to be brought in here thought to be an upgrade on Powell (there are a few direct quotes on some players). I don't think you do either. You're content in the thought that they will always do what's best for the team, I'm not. I think they make mistakes. You may be content with saying they make mistakes, but you are not willing to try to figure out where those mistakes are, I'm not that way.(12-28-2019, 10:06 AM)ItsGoTime Wrote:(12-28-2019, 09:55 AM)StepBackJay Wrote: If Mavs get another big like Favors then it could bump Powell back to the bench where he and Maxi can dominate the other teams bench.SO much this. How much greater could the bench get? Put Powell and Maxi there and watch the domination!
Powell/Maxi/Curry/Wright/Brunson ... DOMINATION!
Favors fits so well in this way as well as being a guy that can be a much better upgrade to the starting unit, I just don't understand why the FO doesn't see it. High character guy, who has shown the ability to play the pick and roll effectively, much better defender and is a hustle guy too, I just don't get it.
Shaq and Barkley don't get it either. Lot's of people don't get it. The Mavs do get it though, and I'm comfortable in the belief they are just smarter than all the arm chair experts out there who don't get it. Donnie will go after a player that fits into the analytics based offense we run, and if he's successful, great, and if he's not, he won't panic into trading for a guy that doesn't fit what we want to bring in.
I'm content with the proof that the coaching staff have implemented an analytics based style of play that has the team playing historic level offense, despite having nowhere near historic level offensive talent. I'm of the belief that the weight of that evidence, and the type of personnel enabling that kind of offensive efficiency will prevent Donnie and Cuban from bringing someone in that will mess with that. They may make mistakes, but they have a very large, very expensive analytics team that is obviously proving to be worth their weight, and I think they are smart enough to listen to what they have to say.
Rick clearly gave some insight as to what the information is being relayed by our analytics team in the Spurs post game presser, but it really doesn't take a rocket scientist to watch the Mavs play and have it be pretty obvious that everything Rick said is very clearly pretty critical to maintaining the offensive efficiency we have, and that having the wrong type of player on the court for too long that either won't or can't space the floor would significantly suppress what we are able to do. So no, I don't know, but there's a pretty significant amount of evidence available from what Rick has actually been saying for years now, to what is actually happening on the court every game.
RE: Mavs Trade Ideas + Salary Chart - ItsGoTime - 12-29-2019
(12-29-2019, 07:25 AM)Dundalis Wrote: and that having the wrong type of player on the court for too long that either won't or can't space the floor would significantly suppress what we are able to do.So Powell is not the right kind of player. Got it. That is the crux of this whole thing and one person has been willing to try and tackle it.
RE: Mavs Trade Ideas + Salary Chart - StepBackJay - 12-29-2019
Powell looked good last night on both ends. He does well I think when he doesn't have to guard a very good starting PF on the other team. This team looks hard to upgrade at this point but you have to take advantage of Lee's deal to get a good player in return.
Come playoffs your rotation is going to be reduced to likely the following:
Doncic/Wright
THJ/Curry
DFS
KP/Maxi
Powell
I would be surprised if you see a lot of Brunson, Jackson or anybody else save injury assuming everyone is available. Favors would be great but I haven't seen any whispers that he's on the move or the Mavs are interested. Iguodala would not only shore up this rotation, Mavs would keep him away from other contenders like the Lakers or Rox. To me there is a gap behind DFS at the moment. Jax is not ready for the playoffs. DFS can help fill some PF minutes too if he has someone help with minutes at the 3. To me the clear guy to get is Iguodala.
RE: Mavs Trade Ideas + Salary Chart - SkenfromLMF - 12-29-2019
(12-29-2019, 03:34 PM)StepBackJay Wrote: Powell looked good last night on both ends. He does well I think when he doesn't have to guard a very good starting PF on the other team. This team looks hard to upgrade at this point but you have to take advantage of Lee's deal to get a good player in return.
Come playoffs your rotation is going to be reduced to likely the following:
Doncic/Wright
THJ/Curry
DFS
KP/Maxi
Powell
I would be surprised if you see a lot of Brunson, Jackson or anybody else save injury assuming everyone is available. Favors would be great but I haven't seen any whispers that he's on the move or the Mavs are interested. Iguodala would not only shore up this rotation, Mavs would keep him away from other contenders like the Lakers or Rox. To me there is a gap behind DFS at the moment. Jax is not ready for the playoffs. DFS can help fill some PF minutes too if he has someone help with minutes at the 3. To me the clear guy to get is Iguodala.
I don't argue that moves including Favors and Iguodala would help. I don't know what the exact cost is for either, but I do know there is a slight opportunity cost/loss IF we let Lee and the TE expire.
OTOH the GSW 2nd might be too steep if the MBT determines that it is an asset to be used in the off-season for a bigger prize.
RE: Mavs Trade Ideas + Salary Chart - dirkfansince1998 - 12-29-2019
(12-29-2019, 08:01 PM)SkenfromLMF Wrote:(12-29-2019, 03:34 PM)StepBackJay Wrote: Powell looked good last night on both ends. He does well I think when he doesn't have to guard a very good starting PF on the other team. This team looks hard to upgrade at this point but you have to take advantage of Lee's deal to get a good player in return.
Come playoffs your rotation is going to be reduced to likely the following:
Doncic/Wright
THJ/Curry
DFS
KP/Maxi
Powell
I would be surprised if you see a lot of Brunson, Jackson or anybody else save injury assuming everyone is available. Favors would be great but I haven't seen any whispers that he's on the move or the Mavs are interested. Iguodala would not only shore up this rotation, Mavs would keep him away from other contenders like the Lakers or Rox. To me there is a gap behind DFS at the moment. Jax is not ready for the playoffs. DFS can help fill some PF minutes too if he has someone help with minutes at the 3. To me the clear guy to get is Iguodala.
I don't argue that moves including Favors and Iguodala would help. I don't know what the exact cost is for either, but I do know there is a slight opportunity cost/loss IF we let Lee and the TE expire.
OTOH the GSW 2nd might be too steep if the MBT determines that it is an asset to be used in the off-season for a bigger prize.
The way the Warriors are playing in the last few weeks I am not sure if the pick won´t lose.
RE: Mavs Trade Ideas + Salary Chart - Dundalis - 12-30-2019
(12-29-2019, 10:00 AM)ItsGoTime Wrote:(12-29-2019, 07:25 AM)Dundalis Wrote: and that having the wrong type of player on the court for too long that either won't or can't space the floor would significantly suppress what we are able to do.So Powell is not the right kind of player. Got it. That is the crux of this whole thing and one person has been willing to try and tackle it.
Powell can space the floor. He stands on the 3 point line and will take the odd 3 point shot despite not being very good at it. Would this offense be better if it could replace Powell with someone who was a better threat from 3? Hell yes. Powell's rim running helps make up for it to an extent. But in an ideal world, you want to be able to play 5 out with every lineup you put out. There's a number of factors involved in our league leading offense, but spacing is definitely the most important from a team concept.
RE: Mavs Trade Ideas + Salary Chart - burekemde - 12-30-2019
I wonder why not try more Kleber in the pick and roll, rim running role. He can play much better defense. I agree that the Center needs to be able to rim run in order not to clog the lanes for Luka.
RE: Mavs Trade Ideas + Salary Chart - DanSchwartzgan - 12-30-2019
I think I have a new favorite trade target after listening to a June 2018 podcast where Bill Simmons had Bob Voulgaris on.
The target is Aaron Gordon. Voulgaris loves him in the modern NBA as a 4 (says he's often been miscast as a 3). He's having a down year this year and is signed through 21-22 (which lowers his value to teams gearing up for space in 21). He's a Duffy guy who excels as a PnR guy (rolling or popping). Imagine him operating with the space Dallas generates with Luka. He rebounds better than Powell and traditionally is a better 3 point shooter.
The trick is knowing what Orlando would want and what competing offers might look like. It takes Lee plus another salary to match. Orlando is weak at SF as Iwundo is free this summer. Both of their backup PG's are also free. Do they want players? Or, would they be happy to create space for a FA this summer (VanVleet?). I realize this isn't an original idea as others have posted. But, to the extent Voulgaris has influence on personnel decisions, it has found its way onto my radar.