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RE: Trade Ideas + Mavs Salary Chart - Jym - 11-30-2019
(11-30-2019, 04:27 PM)ThunderMav Wrote: People have asked why I started following Mavs. I started because I loved what Dirk meant and did for the franchise. Although he knocked my team out of playoffs I rooted like hell for the Mavs to win it all and they did. Loved watching Cuban recognize the original owner. I started reading the old recent board back then and became fascinated the great discussions.
Eventually I posted in the other teams thread and no one bit my head off. Started posting more and a small bit in other threads. Everyone was welcoming.
What I found was a basketball community where they actually discussed basketball. I mean serious BB.
And then I see most of the old posters here and then I see this thread. And I find myself agreeing with a point. But then I agree with the counterpoint. And so on. Its the absolute best group of posters you will find on any board. I love reading the what if trade scenarios. 99.9% will never happen but its fun to see the possibilities. You just never know. It also helps teach me about other players and their values. So much fun reading this and other threads. Glad that most of the posters made it here. I may be a Thunder fan first but the posters here and the other board made me a Mavs fan second. And its cool that fans from a different primary team can get along.
I also learned a ton how to deal with tank seasons. Posters kept their heads up and still had fun posting during your rebuild. I am drawing from that knowing it takes years yet can still have fun following the sport.
Anyways, wanted to say all that for those who did not post on old board. This is the best fanbase in NBA and have the most educated discussions just like this thread.
Still curious to see what Presti does this year.
Playoffs seem to be wide open for you guys if you decide to cash in some assets for another starter or 2.
I would be tempted to go there. So many picks they need to consolidate them somehow
RE: Trade Ideas + Mavs Salary Chart - Mavsfan12 - 11-30-2019
(11-30-2019, 04:07 PM)DanSchwartzman Wrote:(11-30-2019, 03:06 PM)Fuerza1 Wrote: Are the Dallas Mavericks really an all in team already? It's not like we have this championship window that is closing. We don't really know how good we are until the end of the regular season and/or postseason.
There is a lot of ground to plow between “all-in” and “can’t wait until 2021”. You probably need a more nuanced term to describe what people are actually saying.
Where are we? It appears to me we are second tier among the west playoff teams (4-6). Seems the Laker/Clipper/Nugget tier is a bit stronger than the Rocket/Maverick/Jazz tier (despite the fact Dallas beat Denver and came really close to beating the Lakers). To your other point, it certainly could get better if/when KP starts to find his offensive rhythm.
I’m not in favor of trading assets for 36 year old rentals, but based on what I’ve seen so far, I wouldn’t hesitate to use 2021 space for the right guy. I would hesitate to use the GS 2nd or our 2020 first (this summer) for the right guy. Brunson? Jackson? Sure...for the right guy. So, who is the right guy? I’m not saying he has to necessarily be a 3rd star. I’d be pretty happy if we could just get a clear upgrade at one starting position (probably the DFS spot or the Powell spot) and move the upgraded guy to the bench (as both have proven to be valuable contributors there in the past).
Exactly this... there are plenty of trades that could potentially be made that keep options open for the future and upgrade the present. Upgrading Powell in the starting lineup would be my preference and there are quite a few options out there on non-playoff teams that could make sense. The Love/CP3 deals, where we take on an aging player that guarantees to take us out of the 21 FA class is a hard pass from me. Also, Love's fit on this team is really bad, imo. He is not a rim threat. He is not a defensive presence. Our offense is already elite. What exactly would we be accomplishing by bringing him in? Is he a better player than Powell? Yes. Does he actually fill the need that we are wanting to fill? Not really. We need a defensively versatile/rebounding/shot blocking player who can rim run. Stretching the floor would be an added bonus!
Someone threw out the Bogdan/Thompson combo in separate trades. Given what they were offering to give up, the Mavs do that in a second. Don't think that EITHER CLE/SAC do those trades as proposed. Particularly not SAC. I think that CLE will trade Thompson.
THJ's re-emergence - specifically as a starter - limits our salary matching ability and positional need. He and DFS are actually getting the job done on the wing right now. I view OPJ as an upgrade there - when healthy (and as an asset that fills almost all of the organizational goals I would have). Since it would almost certainly take THJ to make that happen, I would think that the Mavs would have to make a decision based on what they view as THJ's long term value prognosis. If they view this as a sell-high moment, I am sure we will see a trade soon. (not specifically that one, but SOME trade - his value hasn't been this high in a long time). This is a buy-low moment on OPJ for sure.
Ultimately, as a fan, my hope would be that they would use assets to help out the front line. It is clearly the weakest link. The player they need is pretty much the same player that almost all teams need though. There are imperfect upgrades, but that guy who can guard in space, block shots, rim run, rebound, and spread the floor is making the ALL-STAR game likely. haha. So, I will imagine we get an imperfect upgrade and swing for the fences in '21 - with KP/Doncic as a young core. So put me in the category of picking up a player who could turn into an asset by then. Guys like Bogdan/OPJ could be that. But clogging up that opportunity with an imperfect AND old option seems short-sighted.
RE: Trade Ideas + Mavs Salary Chart - ThunderMav - 11-30-2019
(11-30-2019, 04:35 PM)Jym Wrote:(11-30-2019, 04:27 PM)ThunderMav Wrote: People have asked why I started following Mavs. I started because I loved what Dirk meant and did for the franchise. Although he knocked my team out of playoffs I rooted like hell for the Mavs to win it all and they did. Loved watching Cuban recognize the original owner. I started reading the old recent board back then and became fascinated the great discussions.
Eventually I posted in the other teams thread and no one bit my head off. Started posting more and a small bit in other threads. Everyone was welcoming.
What I found was a basketball community where they actually discussed basketball. I mean serious BB.
And then I see most of the old posters here and then I see this thread. And I find myself agreeing with a point. But then I agree with the counterpoint. And so on. Its the absolute best group of posters you will find on any board. I love reading the what if trade scenarios. 99.9% will never happen but its fun to see the possibilities. You just never know. It also helps teach me about other players and their values. So much fun reading this and other threads. Glad that most of the posters made it here. I may be a Thunder fan first but the posters here and the other board made me a Mavs fan second. And its cool that fans from a different primary team can get along.
I also learned a ton how to deal with tank seasons. Posters kept their heads up and still had fun posting during your rebuild. I am drawing from that knowing it takes years yet can still have fun following the sport.
Anyways, wanted to say all that for those who did not post on old board. This is the best fanbase in NBA and have the most educated discussions just like this thread.
Still curious to see what Presti does this year.
Playoffs seem to be wide open for you guys if you decide to cash in some assets for another starter or 2.
I would be tempted to go there. So many picks they need to consolidate them somehow
I don’t see it. Sure he could trade picks but it would hurt rebuild imo. Gallo is gone either at trade or end of year. CP is playing slow imo it appears to me he is pacing himself for a trade potential. Plus this is good experience for the younger crop who would not be ready for playoffs one and done. Hoping we jeep Adams but if he goes anywhere I hope its Dallas. Your coach would maximize his talents unlike ours. Last night he scored 12 in forst 5 minites then doesn’t score til last few minutes of game. Its coaching not setting up plays for him most of game and its like this almost every game. Rick would use him much better.
RE: Trade Ideas + Mavs Salary Chart - khaled1987 - 11-30-2019
(11-30-2019, 01:56 PM)deronjohn Wrote: I think the Mavericks are going to try and leave the door open to adding a 3rd and potentially 4th star in 2021. The free agency class in 2021 is going to be epic.
2021 Free Agency
Unrestricted
Giannis Antetokounmpo
Anthony Davis
CJ McCollum
Bradley Beal
Player Option
LeBron James
Kawhi Leonard
Paul George
Chris Paul
Blake Griffin
Actually my top FA target in 2021 is Rudy Gobert. I think if he hit free agency he could be a realistic option (unlike the Kawhi/Giannis of players, and I think he improves us a lot on both ends. Back up plan is Steven Adams.
Also, CJ McCollum & Beal signed extension. They are out of the market.
Davis will opt out next year and won't be available in 2021. Paul won't opt out either.
RE: Trade Ideas + Mavs Salary Chart - Mavsfan12 - 11-30-2019
Giannis.
I don't know what happens between now and then, but in '21, if I am looking at WINNING long term, I choose Luka/KP in Dallas every time over Middleton/Bledsoe in MIL. Especially after they let Brogdon walk to avoid tax. I don't see him staying in Mil on his next contract, which is why there is hope to get him. Any team that trades for him will have let go of all future assets to get him, just at about the time we are about to regain all of ours - only one future pick we don't own at FA '21. A SUPER team with the 3 best European players? All in their prime - or even YET TO ENTER it? All with complementary skill sets? This isn't the run of the mill Fish plan powder pipe dream. This is THE opportunity you stay available for if ever there was one.
Ultimately, this will determine if Dallas will be a dynasty or a consistently good team that maybe wins a championship - a la Dirk. Nothing wrong with the Dirk Era. Lots of fun. But what is the worst case in keeping that window of opportunity open? You make the moves in '21 instead of bringing in old/ill fitting players now and let this young team an opportunity to grow and develop? Barring something miraculous, I don't think anyone is suggesting an available trade that puts us over the top in the next 2 years, right? Patience!
RE: Trade Ideas + Mavs Salary Chart - SportPsychMav - 11-30-2019
2020 isn't as bad as people pretend it to be and 2021 isn't that great either.
2021 is mostly relevant because of the cap structure of our team.
We might have 2020 cap, if THJ sticks to his play as of late he will opt out, because 2020 is deemed to be a weak class. If the cap goes down he might stick to his player option.
(11-30-2019, 05:56 PM)Mavsfan12 Wrote: Giannis.
I don't know what happens between now and then, but in '21, if I am looking at WINNING long term, I choose Luka/KP in Dallas every time over Middleton/Bledsoe in MIL. Especially after they let Brogdon walk to avoid tax. I don't see him staying in Mil on his next contract, which is why there is hope to get him. Any team that trades for him will have let go of all future assets to get him, just at about the time we are about to regain all of ours - only one future pick we don't own at FA '21. A SUPER team with the 3 best European players? All in their prime - or even YET TO ENTER it? All with complementary skill sets? This isn't the run of the mill Fish plan powder pipe dream. This is THE opportunity you stay available for if ever there was one.
Ultimately, this will determine if Dallas will be a dynasty or a consistently good team that maybe wins a championship - a la Dirk. Nothing wrong with the Dirk Era. Lots of fun. But what is the worst case in keeping that window of opportunity open? You make the moves in '21 instead of bringing in old/ill fitting players now and let this young team an opportunity to grow and develop? Barring something miraculous, I don't think anyone is suggesting an available trade that puts us over the top in the next 2 years, right? Patience!
Dallas planned their cap for Giannis, we all know that. Cuban will try to correct his mistake in not drafting him.
It makes sense roster wise and for Giannis as well.
I think dynasties, where you dominate every game, become pretty boring, even if it is my team.
RE: Trade Ideas + Mavs Salary Chart - Mavsfan12 - 11-30-2019
I will add that '21 is the LAST window to significantly add to this team, assuming that we keep KP/Luka. After that, we will be capped out. So, THAT is the downside of being hasty and NOT waiting.
I am pissed that the Mavs didn't use their cap space to either get better starters in place, or to obtain future assets that we could use to improve down the road. But we are here. And if they compound it by mortgaging the last, best chance we have to add that last foundational piece, it will be tough to swallow now, and it may lead to Luka choosing to leave in the future.
This is team building in this player-driven era. You can either do the "process" (which we already did a partial job of by getting the generational talent, but not stockpiling any assets), or you have a "go all in" point, where you plan to have assets and capspace and you have either the franchise that people want to go to or the players that everyone wants to play with. The Mavs have made sure that they have 2 players that people will want to play with in '21 and they WILL be competing at the high end of the league - so they will be attractive. I assure you that they will have a better team in '21 then we do today.
(11-30-2019, 05:57 PM)SportPsychMav Wrote: 2020 isn't as bad as people pretend it to be and 2021 isn't that great either.
2021 is mostly relevant because of the cap structure of our team.
We might have 2020 cap, if THJ sticks to his play as of late he will opt out, because 2020 is deemed to be a weak class. If the cap goes down he might stick to his player option.
(11-30-2019, 05:56 PM)Mavsfan12 Wrote: Giannis.
I don't know what happens between now and then, but in '21, if I am looking at WINNING long term, I choose Luka/KP in Dallas every time over Middleton/Bledsoe in MIL. Especially after they let Brogdon walk to avoid tax. I don't see him staying in Mil on his next contract, which is why there is hope to get him. Any team that trades for him will have let go of all future assets to get him, just at about the time we are about to regain all of ours - only one future pick we don't own at FA '21. A SUPER team with the 3 best European players? All in their prime - or even YET TO ENTER it? All with complementary skill sets? This isn't the run of the mill Fish plan powder pipe dream. This is THE opportunity you stay available for if ever there was one.
Ultimately, this will determine if Dallas will be a dynasty or a consistently good team that maybe wins a championship - a la Dirk. Nothing wrong with the Dirk Era. Lots of fun. But what is the worst case in keeping that window of opportunity open? You make the moves in '21 instead of bringing in old/ill fitting players now and let this young team an opportunity to grow and develop? Barring something miraculous, I don't think anyone is suggesting an available trade that puts us over the top in the next 2 years, right? Patience!
Dallas planned their cap for Giannis, we all know that. Cuban will try to correct his mistake in not drafting him.
It makes sense roster wise and for Giannis as well.
I think dynasties, where you dominate every game, become pretty boring, even if it is my team.
If it is my team, I think I will manage to survive the ordeal. Somehow.
RE: Trade Ideas + Mavs Salary Chart - StepBackJay - 11-30-2019
I check this thread all the time and I see a lot of trades involving swapping our role guys for other role guys (perhaps better fitting)? To me that's not going to move the needle. You are just as likely to go backwards as you are forwards, especially with a mid-season move. To me if you make a deal it's trying to trade 3 of our role guys for 1 better player. Could be guys like Adams, Love, Gordon types. Not sure who is really available but we should find out closer to the TDL.
RE: Trade Ideas + Mavs Salary Chart - Branduil - 11-30-2019
Any player on the roster who isn't Luka or KP should be available for a trade if it gets us a true 3rd star. Or even a 3rd guy better than new/improved THJ.
RE: Trade Ideas + Mavs Salary Chart - TXBamanut - 11-30-2019
I appreciate the way that THJ is playing, but unless he's turned a corner, I am not super confident that it will last or be dependable when it gets tight. We might want to look into trading him while his value is high at some point.
RE: Trade Ideas + Mavs Salary Chart - Mavsfan12 - 11-30-2019
I didn't know where to post this, and didn't really think it needed a new thread, so here goes...
Someone here posted a link to ClutchFans re: Doncic, and I got interested in a related thread that was made back when we swapped picks with ATL for him. The content of the thread quickly pushed past us drafting Doncic (who they all seemed to think would be good) and to us sniping Capela from them in RFA. I was thinking - how different are things now if we signed Capela instead of DJ? NY was VERY motivated to offload those contracts and were not attached to DJ in that trade. They wouldn't have wanted Capela back in the deal. Assuming we could have made the filler (perhaps Powell?) and still made the trade work, would we be sitting here with Luka/KP/Capela?
Second thought... if a current trade proposal with SAC were on the table: HB for Curry/Wright/JJax, who says no? Barnes is shooting 50/40 FG/3pt on the season. He was traded to free up space in FA. Knowing what we do now about the outcome of FA, and this thread's desire to add a legit starter, I am curious if anyone would make this referendum trade, or if it would still be supported.
(11-30-2019, 08:45 PM)TXBamanut Wrote: I appreciate the way that THJ is playing, but unless he's turned a corner, I am not super confident that it will last or be dependable when it gets tight. We might want to look into trading him while his value is high at some point.
I would still probably seek to trade him for OPJ - especially given our depth chart if this were our only move. I would still think that adding Wright to the starting lineup would benefit the team. If we could upgrade DFS with OPJ, you could start Wright. Or imagine the Jumbo lineup of Luka/OPJ/DFS/Powell/KP. That would get us to matchup pretty well with LAL/LAC/PHI size. Replace Powell with TT and that is legit size - championship quality size. Could switch a LOT on D.
RE: Trade Ideas + Mavs Salary Chart - SportPsychMav - 11-30-2019
Unless it was for chemistry reasons (which it probably was) the Barnes trade was unnecessary.
If he would have accepted the role, Barnes could have been a good 6th man.
RE: Trade Ideas + Mavs Salary Chart - Jym - 11-30-2019
(11-30-2019, 09:43 PM)SportPsychMav Wrote: Barnes could have been a good 6th man.
We don't need five 6th men
RE: Trade Ideas + Mavs Salary Chart - Scott41theMavs - 11-30-2019
(11-30-2019, 09:43 PM)SportPsychMav Wrote: Unless it was for chemistry reasons (which it probably was) the Barnes trade was unnecessary.
If he would have accepted the role, Barnes could have been a good 6th man.
Don't agree on the 6th man thing, but I agree the trade was largely for chemistry. He and Luka didn't fit together. He was part of the Luka butthurt crew with the other three starters.
RE: Trade Ideas + Mavs Salary Chart - Mavsfan12 - 11-30-2019
(11-30-2019, 09:52 PM)Jym Wrote:(11-30-2019, 09:43 PM)SportPsychMav Wrote: Barnes could have been a good 6th man.
We don't need five 6th men
If Barnes was here, he would be a starter. I will take by your responses that you don't view him as a starter? I don't agree, but that is fine. He is certainly a solid starter in the league.
(11-30-2019, 10:21 PM)Scott41theMavs Wrote:(11-30-2019, 09:43 PM)SportPsychMav Wrote: Unless it was for chemistry reasons (which it probably was) the Barnes trade was unnecessary.
If he would have accepted the role, Barnes could have been a good 6th man.
Don't agree on the 6th man thing, but I agree the trade was largely for chemistry. He and Luka didn't fit together. He was part of the Luka butthurt crew with the other three starters.
I have seen people insinuate this, but did not see it. On court fit, maybe. But butthurt? HB was a good teammate by all accounts.
RE: Trade Ideas + Mavs Salary Chart - Jym - 11-30-2019
(11-30-2019, 10:37 PM)Mavsfan12 Wrote: If Barnes was here, he would be a starter. I will take by your responses that you don't view him as a starter? I don't agree, but that is fine. He is certainly a solid starter in the league.
I was more responding to the post calling Barnes a potential 6th man and I was pushing back on that as a need.
But yeah Barnes would be an upgrade over DFS as a starting SF
My main worry with keeping him was that he would be playing a ton of PF which I was not a fan of, and I really thought we were going to use his 25 mil in space to sign another competent starter
Didn't really foresee filling out the bench as the plan
RE: Trade Ideas + Mavs Salary Chart - Mavsfan12 - 11-30-2019
(11-30-2019, 10:51 PM)Jym Wrote:(11-30-2019, 10:37 PM)Mavsfan12 Wrote: If Barnes was here, he would be a starter. I will take by your responses that you don't view him as a starter? I don't agree, but that is fine. He is certainly a solid starter in the league.
I was more responding to the post calling Barnes a potential 6th man and I was pushing back on that as a need.
But yeah Barnes would be an upgrade over DFS as a starting SF
My main worry with keeping him was that he would be playing a ton of PF which I was not a fan of, and I really thought we were going to use his 25 mil in space to sign another competent starter
Didn't really foresee filling out the bench as the plan
Gotcha... sooooo... would you trade Curry/Wright/JJax (what we got in the trade, and what we used his space to sign) for HB if the offer was on the table right now? I have a take on it, but I am curious to hear what others would do, given the recent discussion of the need to trade for starters.
RE: Trade Ideas + Mavs Salary Chart - Jym - 11-30-2019
(11-30-2019, 11:13 PM)Mavsfan12 Wrote:(11-30-2019, 10:51 PM)Jym Wrote:(11-30-2019, 10:37 PM)Mavsfan12 Wrote: If Barnes was here, he would be a starter. I will take by your responses that you don't view him as a starter? I don't agree, but that is fine. He is certainly a solid starter in the league.
I was more responding to the post calling Barnes a potential 6th man and I was pushing back on that as a need.
But yeah Barnes would be an upgrade over DFS as a starting SF
My main worry with keeping him was that he would be playing a ton of PF which I was not a fan of, and I really thought we were going to use his 25 mil in space to sign another competent starter
Didn't really foresee filling out the bench as the plan
Gotcha... sooooo... would you trade Curry/Wright/JJax (what we got in the trade, and what we used his space to sign) for HB if the offer was on the table right now? I have a take on it, but I am curious to hear what others would do, given the recent discussion of the need to trade for starters.
I wouldn't do that.
Lee plus one of Curry or Wright would have me more interested
RE: Trade Ideas + Mavs Salary Chart - Scott41theMavs - 11-30-2019
(11-30-2019, 11:13 PM)Mavsfan12 Wrote:(11-30-2019, 10:51 PM)Jym Wrote:(11-30-2019, 10:37 PM)Mavsfan12 Wrote: If Barnes was here, he would be a starter. I will take by your responses that you don't view him as a starter? I don't agree, but that is fine. He is certainly a solid starter in the league.
I was more responding to the post calling Barnes a potential 6th man and I was pushing back on that as a need.
But yeah Barnes would be an upgrade over DFS as a starting SF
My main worry with keeping him was that he would be playing a ton of PF which I was not a fan of, and I really thought we were going to use his 25 mil in space to sign another competent starter
Didn't really foresee filling out the bench as the plan
Gotcha... sooooo... would you trade Curry/Wright/JJax (what we got in the trade, and what we used his space to sign) for HB if the offer was on the table right now? I have a take on it, but I am curious to hear what others would do, given the recent discussion of the need to trade for starters.
I would rather have any one of those three players at their current salary than Barnes at his current salary, so hell to the no three times over. It's already been well-established by what we saw on the floor last year that he and Luka don't fit together.
RE: Trade Ideas + Mavs Salary Chart - SleepingHero - 12-01-2019
(11-30-2019, 09:08 PM)Mavsfan12 Wrote: Second thought... if a current trade proposal with SAC were on the table: HB for Curry/Wright/JJax, who says no?
I say no. I'd snip the telephone lines faster than Donnie could dial 214. I really enjoyed HB his first year here, thinking he could only improve after being given newfound freedom leaving GSW. What we got was a pretty one-dimensional scorer that brought flashbacks of twilight days iso-Melo with less scoring talent. But despite that Barnes showed he could theoretically be the perfect 3rd/4th option in any offense, but because of desire to be the man, never accepted that role (after GSW).
Getting past the issues of Barnes being traded because supposedly he didn't get along with Luka, mostly because a rookie came in and stole his thunder, AND his god awful overpriced contract, Barnes doesn't really work here. We tried the Barnes Luka experiment and we know the results. Plus my main gripe with Barnes is that SAC hasn't gotten any better since they traded for him, in fact they've gotten much worse.
The Kings went 11-17 to close out the season after trading Barnes, this was after starting 28-26 that same season. We all know how the Kings have massively underperformed to start this season as well (though they have bounced back since Fox went down) and they're current record is 7-10. So since trading for Barnes, the Kings are 18-27, and they only gave up a drug lord and Justin Jackson who was barely in the rotation, so it's not like the Kings lost massive amount of talent to get him.
Now I'm not saying that Barnes is the sole reason for the Kings lack of success. Injuries, the odd decision to fire their coach, and weird roster construction all definitely play a role. But there is a clear definite trend that since Barnes joined the Kings they've been bad, despite his personal above average success.
I wish Barnes well, as he was a great professional while he was here, but I personally never really want to see him in a Mavs jersey again solely because I think there will always be a player that fills the role we want him to play better than he could.