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+--- Thread: 2019-2020 Mavs Trade Discussion + Salary Chart (/showthread.php?tid=206)
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RE: Trade Ideas - Branduil - 11-17-2019
Two big needs:
1) A real 3-and-D wing. Mavs have too many guys who are one or the other. Not only would merely having a guy like this help, it also means we could afford to start Wright as well.
2) A physical, mobile big. Powell is a massive disappointment and Kleber can't do it alone.
RE: Trade Ideas - aguiar95 - 11-17-2019
We are paying more than 40 Million this year to guys that can't even play 20 minutes. Powell, THJ and Lee. We need to try and trade then for something good or even for air. This 40 million could be used to get these 2 starters (20M/year each). Next year is 30M to Powell and THJ (pray to god that he declines his option, a guy can dream right?). We are in a good spot.
RE: Trade Ideas - BigDirk41 - 11-17-2019
THJ is even worse than I ever imagined and like many of us I had hopes he could be a reliable 6th man. I have no idea why anyone would take him other than possibly the CP3 trade. He literally brings nothing to the table other than hustle. It's a shame too. He has a lot of talent, but possibly the lowest basketball IQ I've ever witnessed.
RE: Trade Ideas - JamesConway - 11-17-2019
Chicago is a team to watch. They're underperforming and have a bad contract that runs one more year after this season with Felicio. We might be able to create some value here by taking on his deal. Either by absorbing him into our trade exception or by leveraging him in a bigger trade.
We've already talked about Otto Porter here quite a bit but I could see them move on from Zach Lavine eventually, too. I'm not sure he's even a winning-type of player but I doubt we can be too picky. He's another name to keep in mind Imo.
(11-17-2019, 07:27 AM)aguiar95 Wrote: We are paying more than 40 Million this year to guys that can't even play 20 minutes. Powell, THJ and Lee. We need to try and trade then for something good or even for air. This 40 million could be used to get these 2 starters (20M/year each). Next year is 30M to Powell and THJ (pray to god that he declines his option, a guy can dream right?). We are in a good spot.Powell is horrendous right now, there's just no denying it.
I still can't believe we locked ourselves into that extension. His old contract hasn't even run out yet and his awful play so far would have put him into a terrible position for negotiations.
Yikes
RE: Trade Ideas - omahen - 11-17-2019
(11-17-2019, 11:05 AM)JamesConway Wrote: They're underperforming and have a bad contract
Unfortunatelly this is not a situtation where I would see them paying picks to take that contract. I wouldn't want anything to do with LaVine. He is not a winning type of player imho.
RE: Trade Ideas - Branduil - 11-18-2019
Otto Porter is interesting, but he's not doing well this year... I mean, no one on the Bulls is really. The Mavs certainly need a 3&D wing badly, but I'm not convinced he's not just Harrison Barnes 2.0.
RE: Trade Ideas - Mavsfan12 - 11-18-2019
Otto Porter would be a HUGE upgrade to DFS in the starting lineup - same D with elite level efficiency from 3. He was banged up early this year (hip) coming into the season. He was getting on track and then sprained his foot. Also, remember that you are also likely trading THJ or Lee (plus sweetener) to get him. I would trade for Barnes if that is what I was sending out. Porter would thrive here - if he can stay healthy. With the Mavs depth with DFS there, the mavs could limit his minutes to keep him healthy. He would be a HUGE upgrade though. He would provide gravity and be a weapon, rather than DFS who teams are scheming to leave open. FINALLY! A two-way wing.
We could save CHI a ton of cash and they are still rebuilding. Let them develop JJax. Sending out THJ/JJax for Porter saves CHI around 8.5M over the next 2 seasons - and that is without taking back a bad contract into our exception. Unless CHI really plans to keep OPJ long term, (he is a FA in 2 years), why not offload him and develop a younger player while you are living in the lottery? For Dallas, the only reason you don't make this trade is if you somehow have something better, or if you are scared off by the medical. OPJ matches up with the 21 FA class, and fills an huge need now.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0k01-rdpfbM
Tell me you don't want a bit of this on the wing between Luka/KP!
RE: Trade Ideas - omahen - 11-18-2019
(11-18-2019, 04:02 AM)Branduil Wrote: Otto Porter is interesting, but he's not doing well this year... I mean, no one on the Bulls is really. The Mavs certainly need a 3&D wing badly, but I'm not convinced he's not just Harrison Barnes 2.0.
Totally agree. He is a risk and might not be any better than THJ in the end. I still remain intrigued in CP3 for THJ+Lee :-) Adding a quality player for basically nothing and keeping our strong bench would actually increase our flexibility, not decrease it. We keep reasonable contracts and assets (as much as we have) for further moves if needed. I really wonder if there is a better way to spend that THJ and Lee contracts. CP3 has been excellent on OKC so far. Leader, mentor and not demanding the spot light - has no problems with OKC promotion of SGA.
A couple of other contracts teams will regret imho:
Jamal Murray - decent guy, but not worth max contract. Not even close. Unless his production substantially improves, his max contract is at least 10 per over his actual value
Ben Simmons - Unless he develops a shot, and I don't believe he will, he is not worth the max, not even close. Same as Murray
Khris Middleton and Tobias Harris - nice team guys, reliable, efficient, but more number three guys than true star players. Example: Bogdanovic got 15 per less for better production. Utah really got a steal there...
Compared to those above, Wiggins contract doesn't look that bad anymore.
(11-18-2019, 04:46 AM)Mavsfan12 Wrote: Otto Porter would be a HUGE upgrade to DFS in the starting lineup - same D with elite level efficiency from 3.
You have a point here.
THJ is a real mistery to me. His shot looks extremely nice yet he can't hit the broadside of the barn this year. He is actually posting career lows in both FG% and 3P%. I guess some of this has to be attributed to a statistical error of a small sample. He didn't forget how to shoot.
RE: Trade Ideas - Branduil - 11-18-2019
Middleton would be great here but he obviously only becomes available if Giannis bolts.
RE: Trade Ideas - StepBackJay - 11-18-2019
THJ is a real mistery to me. His shot looks extremely nice yet he can't hit the broadside of the barn this year. He is actually posting career lows in both FG% and 3P%. I guess some of this has to be attributed to a statistical error of a small sample. He didn't forget how to shoot.
I wouldn't mind THJ getting benched, especially when we have other options. He is in a top 3 lineup of minutes played. The THJ, Powell, Wright, Jackson, Brunson lineup is a pretty interesting offensive explosion that you can deploy on teams. But ya I am not a big fan of his chucking.
(11-18-2019, 04:46 AM)Mavsfan12 Wrote: Otto Porter would be a HUGE upgrade to DFS in the starting lineup - same D with elite level efficiency from 3. He was banged up early this year (hip) coming into the season. He was getting on track and then sprained his foot. Also, remember that you are also likely trading THJ or Lee (plus sweetener) to get him. I would trade for Barnes if that is what I was sending out. Porter would thrive here - if he can stay healthy. With the Mavs depth with DFS there, the mavs could limit his minutes to keep him healthy. He would be a HUGE upgrade though. He would provide gravity and be a weapon, rather than DFS who teams are scheming to leave open. FINALLY! A two-way wing.
We could save CHI a ton of cash and they are still rebuilding. Let them develop JJax. Sending out THJ/JJax for Porter saves CHI around 8.5M over the next 2 seasons - and that is without taking back a bad contract into our exception. Unless CHI really plans to keep OPJ long term, (he is a FA in 2 years), why not offload him and develop a younger player while you are living in the lottery? For Dallas, the only reason you don't make this trade is if you somehow have something better, or if you are scared off by the medical. OPJ matches up with the 21 FA class, and fills an huge need now.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0k01-rdpfbM
Tell me you don't want a bit of this on the wing between Luka/KP!
Mavs won't trade for him until he gets healthy but ya a THJ+JJax swap for OPJ would be a winning trade to me.
(11-17-2019, 12:56 AM)Branduil Wrote: Two big needs:
1) A real 3-and-D wing. Mavs have too many guys who are one or the other. Not only would merely having a guy like this help, it also means we could afford to start Wright as well.
2) A physical, mobile big. Powell is a massive disappointment and Kleber can't do it alone.
I predict Powell is going to look a lot better if Rick is smart enough to keep Maxi in the starting lineup. Powell can feast on the other teams bench in a lineup that flies up and down the court. He is clearly exposed defensively as a starter. There's no reason however he can't be effective in the bench squad just like he has been the last couple of years. He missed some shots last game that he usually makes but I expect him to look much better once the rotations get solidified.
RE: Trade Ideas - Aussiebballer - 11-18-2019
Hopefully they are monitoring the Myles Turner situation in Indiana, can't see them keeping Turner and Sabonis long term.
Doubt the Mavs have the assets to get turner, but sounds like they got a weird quick deal for KP.
Jackson, Brunson and 5 2nds????
RE: Trade Ideas - Tetra - 11-18-2019
As much of an issue CP3 has been on other teams, whats is his fit on the Mavs? I'm on the train of Paul for THJ + Lee all day. Although CP3 has had issues in the past, on a team where he can be a third fiddle, have him rest early and lead the bench and close, the Mavs would dominate all minutes of the game.
RE: Trade Ideas - donzingis38 - 11-19-2019
Still a big NO to a CP3 deal. That contract will hurt Dallas. Imagine paying a 36 y.o. player 44 million in 2021. My god. It looks so bad now and it'll look worse next year and especially after that.
I don't see the fit either. Would rather go for Dennis Schroder. A lot younger and drama-free.
And yes, THJ sucks right now but there's no need to panic or trading him. Lets at least wait til trade deadline. His contract isn't even hurting our team and he could opt out next season.
RE: Trade Ideas - Magickian - 11-19-2019
I really really really don't get this CAP argument over CP3...
Trade Lee/THJ for CP3 The salary works for the swap. Lee comes off next year, THJ in two years, and CP3 in three...
So this is enough money to save Thunder to motivate them to make the move, whereas for us we would only have ONE year of the cap space to deal with outside what was normally the case...
You really don't think we could trade a CP3 one year deal that offseason to sign someone like Giannis or whoever you were planning to get?
Okay let us just paint a scenario... let us pretend we traded for CP3, and he falls off in a year or two... Luka is getting better, and we are itching for that THIRD piece to put us over the top...
Why wouldn't we just bundle up some 1st round picks get CP3 moved? it would be worth it at that point.
I really think this cap nonsense is ridiculous. We see time and time again teams move these type of contracts... I think the pessimistic nature of this argument is really out of hand... Who are we signing instead in the next two years? we already dont have cap space for two years... so why not?
Best case scenario it works out and we are competing with him.. worst case scenario we package picks to move him and we have the capspace... really not that big of a deal yall.. and I say bring on CP3
RE: Trade Ideas - radioaktiv - 11-19-2019
I'm not adamantly against any trade that gives us an upgrade, but on the CP3 case there has to be someone (or a bunch of someones) to spend THJ and/or Lee on. Someone/s who won't fall off the cliff after a year and/or can be better trade assets down the road. Or even someone who won't needlessly cost us more 1R picks just to unload later.
RE: Trade Ideas - Magickian - 11-19-2019
(11-19-2019, 03:12 AM)radioaktiv Wrote: I'm not adamantly against any trade that gives us an upgrade, but on the CP3 case there has to be someone (or a bunch of someones) to spend THJ and/or Lee on. Someone/s who won't fall off the cliff after a year and/or can be better trade assets down the road. Or even someone who won't needlessly cost us more 1R picks just to unload later.
yeah but name me ONE player better than him RIGHT NOW, and could help us contend even more, that we could potentially get at the moment?
RE: Trade Ideas - radioaktiv - 11-19-2019
That's my point, "Right Now" he's the guy but I'd like to look at the next 1-2 years, too. I think I'd prefer if we get a guy or a package that improves our next 3 years (including chances of netting someone even better via subsequent trades).
RE: Trade Ideas - JamesConway - 11-19-2019
The CP3-thing seems nuts and overly risky but if we were to bring him in as the nr 3 guy that would actually make quite a lot of sense:
- THJr + Lee for CP3 is plenty enough incentive for OKC due to the capsavings
- At that point we'd look at a Doncic - Porzingis - CP3 core...
...and then we'd reach the 2020 draft at some point in the near future where we will have three selections. The DAL 1st (~ #20), the GS 2nd (~ #31-35) and the Utah 2nd (~ #45+)
- We could make all three selections and then use those rookie players in SnT-scenarios for guys such as Bogdanovic.
For instance if we were to get Bogdan on a multi year deal and boom.........you're looking at Luka+KP+CP3+Bogdan main group from PG to PF while you'd still have a bunch of role players on the roster like Curry/Kleber/Powell/Wright/Brunson/Jackson/DFS. You'd have to use one or two to get the SnT for Bogdan to work out financially but at that point we'd still be absolutely loaded.
E.g. with Wright + Boban going to SAC:
PG: CP3 | Brunson
SG: Bogdan | Curry
SF: Doncic | Finney-Smith
PF: Porzingis | Jackson
C: Kleber | Powell
Doesn't have to be Bogdan but the main point is: even after a CP3 for Lee/THJr deal we'd have avenues to bolster out the rotation further due to the picks we will have available for trades come draft night.
+ MLE etc come July. We could build a really deep team around Luka/KP/CP3/Bogdan.
Some stats on CP3:
16ppg on 60+% TS
42% from three
86% FT on 5 FTAs per game
+10 NetRTg
+3 OBPM and neutral DBPM ==> overall +3 BPM
84th percentile as a PnR ballhandler
22% usage (for some perspective: Seth is around 15-16% right now, Harrison Barnes was around 25% in his first two seasons in DAL)
20+ PER
He's still a REALLY good player in general, highly efficient and can play his role on offense playing from the backseat. I'd imagine his raw numbers to go down a bit but we'd bring in an elite floor spacer/passer and another high level PnR ballhandler whenever Luka needs a break. Also he's still getting to the FT line some, more than dudes like Barnes ever did for us.
RE: Trade Ideas - Magickian - 11-19-2019
(11-19-2019, 04:10 AM)radioaktiv Wrote: That's my point, "Right Now" he's the guy but I'd like to look at the next 1-2 years, too. I think I'd prefer if we get a guy or a package that improves our next 3 years (including chances of netting someone even better via subsequent trades).
again... this is nearly a religious superstition that if we made this move we couldn't make any more moves in the next two years. This also pretends we only need to make moves for 3-4+ years out from now... but imo we need to put Luka in a spot to compete NOW... OR we run the risk of losing Luka before this long laid out plan of yours to play itself out.
Whereas if we acted now on CP3 and got a chance to compete now, and maybe it fails(odds are it does, as most odds are against a championship and it all "coming together"...) but this at least gives us a chance... AND as @"JamesConway" brings up in his brilliant following post:
(11-19-2019, 05:10 AM)JamesConway Wrote: then we'd reach the 2020 draft at some point in the near future where we will have three selections. The DAL 1st (~ #20), the GS 2nd (~ #31-35) and the Utah 2nd (~ #45+)
- We could make all three selections and then use those rookie players in SnT-scenarios for guys
------------
even after a CP3 for Lee/THJr deal we'd have avenues to bolster out the rotation further due to the picks we will have available for trades come draft night.
+ MLE etc come July. We could build a really deep team around Luka/KP/CP3/x.
(I snipped his quote up a bit and just left his example of Bogdan as an "x" because this hole could be filled with anyone your heart desires that fit that salary spot... )
CP3 is absolutely our best chance to make a real move within the next two years, AND it does NOT hinder our chances to make more moves within the next two years, AND we could still move CP3 in two years with the worst-case scenario and reset for Luka's big payday
I haven't heard a SINGLE argument that comes close to refuting this
RE: Trade Ideas - omahen - 11-19-2019
(11-19-2019, 06:23 AM)Magickian Wrote: CP3 is absolutely our best chance to make a real move within the next two years, AND it does NOT hinder our chances to make more moves within the next two years, AND we could still move CP3 in two years with the worst-case scenario and reset for Luka's big payday
This sums it all up. I think there are very strong arguments to trade for CP3.