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RE: Mavs Trade Discussion + Salary Chart - Scott41theMavs - 02-19-2020
(02-19-2020, 05:13 PM)jesusshuttlesworth82 Wrote: I wouldn't be shocked if some stupid team gave THJ a long term deal. Look at Harrison Barnes and the Kings.
Once again, I wouldn't mind if it's us - if the deal is reasonable.
RE: Mavs Trade Discussion + Salary Chart - jesusshuttlesworth82 - 02-19-2020
No thanks. I'm still not that convinced to invest in him long term. And the wing spot is where we need to upgrade to become a contender in the future. I dont think tinkering around the edges is enough. We need a wing that is clearly a better player than DFS or THJ.
DFS and Curry are locked into cheap deals. Doesn't make sense to me to sign THJ long term also.
RE: Mavs Trade Discussion + Salary Chart - Scott41theMavs - 02-19-2020
(02-19-2020, 05:45 PM)jesusshuttlesworth82 Wrote: No thanks. I'm still not that convinced to invest in him long term. And the wing spot is where we need to upgrade to become a contender in the future. I dont think tinkering around the edges is enough. We need a wing that is clearly a better player than DFS or THJ.
DFS and Curry are locked into cheap deals. Doesn't make sense to me to sign THJ long term also.
Whom would you target? And as I've asked you before, whom would you propose as an alternative target to Aaron Gordon? Perhaps the answer to those two questions is the same.
RE: Mavs Trade Discussion + Salary Chart - jesusshuttlesworth82 - 02-19-2020
I have no idea who might become available and what that person might cost in assets. I had zero idea we'd be able to trade for KP until the day it happened.
I dont think you have to know an answer to keep from locking yourself longterm into meh players like THJ and Aaron Gordon. Neither one of those guys is going to be one of the best players on a title contender. I'm glad THJ has had a good 40 game stretch but he's a career 35% three point shooter and questionable defender. If he wants to opt out for a big payday, pat him on the ass and say see ya later. At least Gordon is relatively cheap and young but the issue with him is you'd be emptying your chest of assets to acquire him.
Sometime between now and when Luka's rookie deal expires, we need a strong talent infusion. Be patient until that opportunity presents itself.
RE: Mavs Trade Discussion + Salary Chart - omahen - 02-19-2020
(02-19-2020, 06:01 PM)jesusshuttlesworth82 Wrote: At least Gordon is relatively cheap and young but the issue with him is you'd be emptying your chest of assets to acquire him.
Well, you would empty the chest of assets but also buy an asset. You can still flip him for something better. I guess we can agree he is a more win now ready player than a couple of rookies and role players. Same goes for THJ. He goes, you are basically without any significant contract available for trade.
THJ - if he opts out, you have some 25 mil of cap space. But who could you get? There are literally zero 3-D wings amongst this year crop of free agents. Harrell might be an interesting PF option, if we are not concerned about so much money tied up in the big guys. Looking at shooting guards: Bogdanovic would probably require a very high offer and I am not really sure if Bogi at 20 per is more reasonable as THJ at little lower value. Beasley is probably a similar situation, I can't imagine Minny leaving him for anything below 15 per. Harris is basically THJ only a year older. This leaves Fournier, who would be a great fit, but at what cost. THJ+MLE is probably still better than 25 of cap for Fournier only (and no MLE). You could also splash out a big one year offer to guys like Gallo or some other vet.
If THJ opts out and if there is a mutual interest on both sides, 15 per yearly deal would be a reasonable offer for both sides, based from what we have seen so far this season. Dallas revived his career while THJ is more or less a perfect fit next to Luka. There are of course still almost 30 games plus play-offs left, which might change our perception
RE: Mavs Trade Discussion + Salary Chart - DrMav - 02-19-2020
There’s probably not enough money out there this summer for THJ to opt out for a large payday. If he opts out my guess is there’s either a number he and the Mavs have discussed, or there’s the making of a S&T in place.
I think THJ can provide excellent value with his current play on a Dwight Powell sized contract, and even up to $15 million a year probably would not hamper the ability to keep building the team up to contender status.
Problem is unless he just loves playing in Dallas, not sure how we get him on that contract. He doesn’t have much incentive to opt out for a few million payout this summer, and next summer there may be a lot more cap room amongst teams to get him a payday.
RE: Mavs Trade Discussion + Salary Chart - omahen - 02-19-2020
(02-19-2020, 06:38 PM)DrMav Wrote: Problem is unless he just loves playing in Dallas, not sure how we get him on that contract. He doesn’t have much incentive to opt out for a few million payout this summer, and next summer there may be a lot more cap room amongst teams to get him a payday.
60 million (4 year 15 per offer) "today" is still a lot of money. Who knows what can happen next season. He can get injured or hits a bad slump. I think it would be smart from him to seriously consider this kind of offer, if it is on the table. If the offer would be lower, I wouldn't take it, if I am him. I would take my chance next year (unless I get an offer from someone else).
Please mind, theoretically. If THJ resigns for 15 and WCS opts out, we have almost 13 mil of cap space. Drop Jackson to someone for a second round pick and we get to almost 18 mil of cap space. Enough to get us in some Bogi, Harrell, Fournier, Harris, Gallo conversations.
Than trade Wright plus picks for a serious upgrade and we might have a very decent team on us.
Assume we sign Montrezl and trade for Osman (I just don't see any better SF 3-D guys as reasonable targets for Wright+pick(s)) This would give us a more balanced team with a lot of tradeable contracts and a lot of flexibility:
Luka, Brunson
THJ, Seth
Osman, DFS
Montrezl, Kleber, Powell
KP, vet min center, Bobi
Another option is we sign Fournier (or Harris, or Bogi) and trade for someone like Young (Chi):
Luka, Brunson
THJ, Seth
Fournier, DFS
Young, Kleber, Powell
KP, vet min center, Bobi
RE: Mavs Trade Discussion + Salary Chart - SleepingHero - 02-19-2020
My biggest fear is that THJ is having some sort of contract like year steroid, that is making him play above and beyond his normal baseline.
So as soon as the Mavs throw 16mm at him he'll resort to being overpaid, and that's a big yikes. If the Mavs could sell high on THJ and get a replacement level 2 guard, like a Fournier, Bogdonavic, etc. that'd be best imo.
On the other hand, THJ's play could easily be explained that he's in a winning culture that is focused on his strengths, and that's why he's contributing highly right now. Its tough.
Gordon btw would be a dream get for me. He's a high level defender with still big upside. I don't think he'll ever be a star, but as a 3rd option on a contender he'd fit pretty well.
RE: Mavs Trade Discussion + Salary Chart - ItsGoTime - 02-20-2020
(02-19-2020, 05:57 PM)Scott41theMavs Wrote: Whom would you target? And as I've asked you before, whom would you propose as an alternative target to Aaron Gordon? Perhaps the answer to those two questions is the same.For me, I think another realistic target instead of AG, or an alternative if that isn’t viable is OPJ and Satoransky. Sat is the tip for taking on OPJ’s contract.
The deal would be something like OPJ and Sat for THJ and DW. They already have a good defense, they need more offense without totally disrupting their defense.
I like AG, just wonder if the cost is worth the player compared to the duo from CHI.
RE: Mavs Trade Discussion + Salary Chart - omahen - 02-20-2020
(02-20-2020, 02:25 AM)ItsGoTime Wrote: Sat is the tip for taking on OPJ’s contract.
Unfortunately, OPJ is now expiring. Unless we can give them cap space (which we can't), they are not paying to move him.
RE: Mavs Trade Discussion + Salary Chart - DanSchwartzgan - 02-20-2020
Hardaway isn't going to opt out this summer to leave. If he does so, it will be because he and the team already have an agreement in place. The idea of him taking a smaller deal this summer ($60/4 was suggested) is a good one if the plan is to keep THJ. Certainly his hold and probably his contract will cost more against the cap in 2021 if we are trying to preserve space. I can see THJ adding 3 years in 2021 to make his four year total closer to $80mm...especially if Dallas has some playoff success by then. $60/4 this summer (which starts around $14.2mm) feels a little light. I suspect it would take more to get him to pass on free agency in 2021.
It is hard to put a pricetag on THJ. By some measures, he's the epitome of an average starting SG. PER is about 15. WS is about .100. He's ranked as the 13th best SG in RPM. But, 538.com has him as the 24th best player in the league. 82games.com has him 59th. The Mav's are 7 points per 100 better when he's in the game. You can argue he benefits from playing mainly with the starters, but it works and as we've seen with our other guards, not many of them can make it work with the starters.
RE: Mavs Trade Discussion + Salary Chart - omahen - 02-20-2020
(02-20-2020, 07:17 AM)DanSchwartzman Wrote: The idea of him taking a smaller deal this summer ($60/4 was suggested) is a good one if the plan is to keep THJ.
Do you see the value of signing a free agent this summer? I guess it would not be difficult to move Jackson, Bobi and Wright for cap space if needed. Jackson and Bobi are useful rotation guys, I don't see we would need to pay to move them (2nd rounder or two for Jackson, cash for Bobi). Teams like Atlanta, Detroit and Minny could use a defensive minded PG. All moves can of course be done after we agree to contract with the player.
Some decent 3rd-4th options on a contender like Harris, Bogi, Montrezl or Fournier are possible. However, any 3-4 year contract this summer might be difficult to move in 2021.
RE: Mavs Trade Discussion + Salary Chart - DanSchwartzgan - 02-20-2020
A couple of questions...
Do you trade for Gallinari when you can sign Bertans for the MLE (very similar player)
Do you sign Harrell for the MLE (or more) when you can trade for Holmes (or pick him up in free agency in 2021)? Does Christian Wood fit as well as either of those guys?
Did you know Chicago is 5 pp100 better when Kris Dunn is on the floor than when he isn't (a number that is backed up by Dunn having the 37th best RPM in the league).
(02-20-2020, 07:44 AM)omahen Wrote:(02-20-2020, 07:17 AM)DanSchwartzman Wrote: The idea of him taking a smaller deal this summer ($60/4 was suggested) is a good one if the plan is to keep THJ.
Do you see the value of signing a free agent this summer? I guess it would not be difficult to move Jackson, Bobi and Wright for cap space if needed. Jackson and Bobi are useful rotation guys, I don't see we would need to pay to move them (2nd rounder or two for Jackson, cash for Bobi). Teams like Atlanta, Detroit and Minny could use a defensive minded PG. All moves can of course be done after we agree to contract with the player.
Some decent 3rd-4th options on a contender like Harris, Bogi, Montrezl or Fournier are possible. However, any 3-4 year contract this summer might be difficult to move in 2021.
We talk a lot about trading Player X and a pick for player Y. I think it is a clever idea to trade Player X and a pick in order to sign player Y. 1. What is the impact on 2021. 2. You are slightly over-stating the room being created as you have to account for the cost of pick #20 and have to add some minimum wage bodies depending on what you ship out.
RE: Mavs Trade Discussion + Salary Chart - omahen - 02-20-2020
(02-20-2020, 07:46 AM)DanSchwartzman Wrote: Do you trade for Gallinari when you can sign Bertans for the MLE (very similar player)
If Bertans would be available at MLE, I would jump all over him. However, I see no way Bertans will only get MLE. I guess he will get paid in 15 per range.
(02-20-2020, 07:46 AM)DanSchwartzman Wrote: Do you sign Harrell for the MLE (or more) when you can trade for Holmes (or pick him up in free agency in 2021)? Does Christian Wood fit as well as either of those guys?
Same as with Bertans, I see Harell in the at least 15 per range. If MLE is his ceiling, Clippers will be the one paying it. I doubt Sacramento will trade Holmes as he worked so well for them. At least not cheaply. Christian Wood is a bit more difficult for me. Detroit certainly sees him as long term option. But how much is he worth? Again, if we are prepared to pay MLE, I think Detroit makes sure he stays there.
(02-20-2020, 07:46 AM)DanSchwartzman Wrote: Did you know Chicago is 5 pp100 better when Kris Dunn is on the floor than when he isn't (a number that is backed up by Dunn having the 37th best RPM in the league).
Dunn is defensively what Wright should be, with a worse shot and better driving. He is a back up point guard, but certainly not a number 3 point guard. However, our bench is already full at guard spot and I don't see any reason to sign him unless we trade at least 2 out of Brunson/Wright/Curry. I am more intrigued by Valentine as a reclamation project taking Jacksons spot in rotation.
Let me explain how I see Bertans situation. Washington was reportedly demanding 2 first round picks for him, which was unreasonable - says to me they really want to keep him. I am certain a bunch of teams will try their luck by offering MLE for him, so Washington should offer more as a start just to be on the safe side. Therefore I see no way he only gets MLE. Some desperate team might appear offering 15 per. He could look nice in Atlanta, for example. As Dallas GM, I wouldn't pay him this much - he is too high risk with only one good season behind him and probably still only bench guy on a contender, not really starter material.
Footnote: I hoped and proposed to trade with San Antonio for him. In the end SA paid Washington to take him.
(02-20-2020, 07:46 AM)DanSchwartzman Wrote: You are slightly over-stating the room being created as you have to account for the cost of pick #20 and have to add some minimum wage bodies depending on what you ship out.
If THJ picks his option (or resign for same number), WCS rejects it and we renounce MKG cap hold we have some 7 mil of cap space after adding #20 pick. Getting rid of Jackson and Bobi gets us to 15,5. Add Wright we are at 24. Vet mins can be added anytime - I didn't understand your take in this part.
I guess this can be a good negotiating position for SnT: "you can sign and trade with us or we will just create cap space and sign him". This is of course assuming the player really wants to play for us.
RE: Mavs Trade Discussion + Salary Chart - Mavs2019 - 02-20-2020
(02-20-2020, 07:46 AM)DanSchwartzman Wrote: A couple of questions...
Do you trade for Gallinari when you can sign Bertans for the MLE (very similar player)
Do you sign Harrell for the MLE (or more) when you can trade for Holmes (or pick him up in free agency in 2021)? Does Christian Wood fit as well as either of those guys?
Did you know Chicago is 5 pp100 better when Kris Dunn is on the floor than when he isn't (a number that is backed up by Dunn having the 37th best RPM in the league).
Bertans can only shoot. Gallinari can do a lot more. He´s better defensively as well.
I´d sign Harrell for the MLE without hesitation, but that won´t nearly be enough.
Trade for Holmes. Not likely. Harry Giles is an UFA. That is their whole center rotation, unless you consider Bagley/Bjelica centers.
I like Dunn a lot.
I still fell we have some major roster reconstruction ahead of us. The core is healthy (Doncic, Porzingis, DFS, Curry, Kleber, Brunson), but around that we can make so many moves.
RE: Mavs Trade Discussion + Salary Chart - StepBackJay - 02-20-2020
(02-19-2020, 06:01 PM)jesusshuttlesworth82 Wrote: I have no idea who might become available and what that person might cost in assets. I had zero idea we'd be able to trade for KP until the day it happened.
I dont think you have to know an answer to keep from locking yourself longterm into meh players like THJ and Aaron Gordon. Neither one of those guys is going to be one of the best players on a title contender. I'm glad THJ has had a good 40 game stretch but he's a career 35% three point shooter and questionable defender. If he wants to opt out for a big payday, pat him on the ass and say see ya later. At least Gordon is relatively cheap and young but the issue with him is you'd be emptying your chest of assets to acquire him.
Sometime between now and when Luka's rookie deal expires, we need a strong talent infusion. Be patient until that opportunity presents itself.
It will be interesting to see what the Mavs do this summer considering they do have picks that could be spent on an upgrade but also want to save space for 2021. I would think the Mavs would target Jrue Holiday or Oladipo in the summer of 21 to be the 3rd guy that puts them in title contention.
Next summer I could see a smaller move that gets the Mavs a 3D wing. I am not convinced Wright is a long-term fit, certainly Jackson will be a guy moved at some point. If you could move those 2 contracts and find another athletic wing then the SG in 2021 would be the last piece before Luka gets his big deal.
I wouldn't mind lining up a deal whereby you give Wright, Jackson away for basically nothing if you find a wing you like as a better fit. Jerami Grant for example will likely opt-out and I think is a UFA? Nuggets gave up a pick to get him so it seems like they would do their best to keep him there but you never know.
RE: Mavs Trade Discussion + Salary Chart - ItsGoTime - 02-20-2020
(02-20-2020, 03:10 AM)omahen Wrote: Unfortunately, OPJ is now expiring. Unless we can give them cap space (which we can't), they are not paying to move him.OPJ and Sat make $8M more than THJ and DW. You just went on about how we can get money in the offseason. Not sure this is such a big tip if CHI writers are correct (I realize that they probably aren't, however, that's all we have to go off of as fans) about how much they want to get rid of OPJ and how the luster has dimmed for Sat there.
They are also getting THJ and DW fresh off a playoff series in which they make a good enough showing (or better) of themselves. I realize that begs the question of why we would trade them. It's a trade of a starter and bench player for 2 starters in my mind, where the starter and bench player along with the money savings makes it worth their while. Also, as said above, it's to get off that OPJ contract that they don't want to pay anymore.
RE: Mavs Trade Discussion + Salary Chart - StepBackJay - 02-20-2020
It would be interesting if you did OPJ for THJ and DW (or Jackson?). Is OPJ injury prone? It's hard for me to picture Mavs going in that direction as it's basically a 1 yr fix. I suppose you do that if you think you can replace THJ's production with Curry or perhaps Dragic for 1 yr then maybe you do OPJ as another stop-gap until you get to 2021.
RE: Mavs Trade Discussion + Salary Chart - Mapka - 02-20-2020
(02-20-2020, 10:40 AM)ItsGoTime Wrote:(02-20-2020, 03:10 AM)omahen Wrote: Unfortunately, OPJ is now expiring. Unless we can give them cap space (which we can't), they are not paying to move him.OPJ and Sat make $8M more than THJ and DW. You just went on about how we can get money in the offseason. Not sure this is such a big tip if CHI writers are correct (I realize that they probably aren't, however, that's all we have to go off of as fans) about how much they want to get rid of OPJ and how the luster has dimmed for Sat there.
They are also getting THJ and DW fresh off a playoff series in which they make a good enough showing (or better) of themselves. I realize that begs the question of why we would trade them. It's a trade of a starter and bench player for 2 starters in my mind, where the starter and bench player along with the money savings makes it worth their while. Also, as said above, it's to get off that OPJ contract that they don't want to pay anymore.
Shouldn't we look to get a real Starter without giving up a good Starter.
Shuffeling a well fitting for a often injured Player seems to be a step back. And Wright - Satoransky seems to be a wash.
RE: Mavs Trade Discussion + Salary Chart - omahen - 02-20-2020
(02-20-2020, 11:06 AM)StepBackJay Wrote: until you get to 2021.
This infatuation with 2021 free agency is just puzzling. Outside of the Freak, what is so special in 2021? Competing with half a league for a couple of good players. See special thread
(02-20-2020, 10:40 AM)ItsGoTime Wrote: OPJ and Sat make $8M more than THJ and DW
Well no thank you for that. This would be a robbery from Chicago. OPJ ship has sailed at TDL.