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RE: Mavs Trade Discussion + Salary Chart - cow - 02-14-2020
(02-14-2020, 07:17 AM)SleepingHero Wrote: Had a fever dream idea...
Hear me out. This offseason trade Dwight Powell for Kevin Love, and have Love come off the bench. He'd be the most expensive 6th man ever, but he'd be the knockdown stretch big with terrific rebounding we all wanted from Powell. The defense is a wash. Love could fit next to either Maxi or KP, and the Mavs would have a super rotation of KP/Maxi/Love where all 3 can rebound and shoot 3's, with 2 providing elite defense.
It'd be a creative way to get off of Powell's contract. And I'm sure Love could be had for as little as Powell+Jackson.
Knocks you out of the 2021 FA chase, no?
Core Untouchables: Luka and KP
Core: DFS and Maxi (you'd probably consider trading them to upgrade their positions but they are big plus on the trade value chart due to contracts).
Fringe: THJ (depending on what his next contract is signed at, he's probably played too well this season for me to want to give him the contract he'll command, that is to say I think someone will overpay him again and he'll end up in a less than ideal situation. Big question is if he opts out or in? With a weak free agency class, maybe he tests the market?).
RE: Mavs Trade Discussion + Salary Chart - Kammrath - 02-14-2020
![[Image: Screenshot-2020-02-14-at-3.12.05-PM.png]](http://stlukeskck.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/Screenshot-2020-02-14-at-3.12.05-PM.png)
RE: Mavs Trade Discussion + Salary Chart - DanSchwartzgan - 02-14-2020
(02-14-2020, 04:13 PM)Kammrath Wrote:
Wait, are you trying to say that if he played on a decent team in his correct position that he could contribute to winning? Is that what you are selling here?
If so, I'm buying. Never underestimate the ability of a weak directionless franchise to misuse its assets.
Luka/THJ/DFS/Gordon/KP with Brunson, Curry and Maxi as your primary bench players. At that point, do we really care about 2021 Space?
RE: Mavs Trade Discussion + Salary Chart - Kammrath - 02-14-2020
(02-14-2020, 04:58 PM)DanSchwartzman Wrote: Wait, are you trying to say that if he played on a decent team in his correct position that he could contribute to winning? Is that what you are selling here?
I was just offering information that I was looking up. No selling.
HOWEVER, I am very intrigued by Gordon and was so before the KP trade as well. But now after the KP trade I am even more intrigued. He is by no means a sure thing, but very very few "sure things" are made available for a reasonable price. I would bite if I were the Mavs. His length (6' 8.75" in shoes, 7'0" wingspan) and athleticism (elite agility with 2.76s shuttle run and 39" vertical) are exactly what you want in this day and age. AG, MKG, and DFS would be a heck of a combo.
RE: Mavs Trade Discussion + Salary Chart - JamesConway - 02-14-2020
My best guess is that we targeted Gallo. He was available in general and rumored to be a trade+extend guy.
Pretty sure there were also reports about him being a target for DAL. Might have been the ringer/athletic prior to the deadline.
RE: Mavs Trade Discussion + Salary Chart - ItsGoTime - 02-14-2020
(02-14-2020, 08:05 AM)DanSchwartzman Wrote:Sorry, that was more of a dig at the botched trade in the offseason for our FO.(02-14-2020, 06:34 AM)Lui41 Wrote: The sign and extend may possibly be for Andre Iguodala, and the other is for Danny Green, in which the Lakers refused to include Slim Shady in the trade.
For the sake of this summer, I really hope Cuban's definition of "really big" is something greater than Iggy and Green.
IGT: Olynyk doesn't fit the rules (at least not yet) for an extend and trade. He certainly could have been part of the other trade where a team didn't want to give up a key player.
As I said in a prior post, the extend and trade guy has to be expiring (no options) and is probably a fairly highly paid UFA this summer. Good RFA's (and low dollar UFA's) will make more if they wait as there is a limit to the amount someone can be paid in the extension part.
If we are looking ahead to the summer, we probably have to take into account who we were willing to trade (reportedly Wright and Jackson) to see where the outgoing salary might land. Those two will get you to the $19 million area in terms of returning players. One of the reasons we may have kept Lee over R.F.A. is he can help "manufacture" more outgoing salary than the minimum wage guys. If you need an additional $3-$5 million in outgoing salary, you can S&T Lee at that level. You can't do that with Broekhoff.
RE: Mavs Trade Discussion + Salary Chart - aguiar95 - 02-14-2020
(02-14-2020, 05:09 PM)Kammrath Wrote: AG, MKG, and DFS would be a heck of a combo.
On defense, of course. On offense would be a tragedy, no one can create his own shot. I would rather trade for Oubre (PHO) and extend him or Turner (IND). I feel like Oubre is the best 3&D wing that might be available. Turner would turn us into a younger (and better to me) version of the Lakers assuming we keep our core.
RE: Mavs Trade Discussion + Salary Chart - Kammrath - 02-14-2020
(02-14-2020, 05:43 PM)aguiar95 Wrote: On defense, of course. On offense would be a tragedy, no one can create his own shot. I would rather trade for Oubre (PHO) and extend him or Turner (IND). I feel like Oubre is the best 3&D wing that might be available. Turner would turn us into a younger (and better to me) version of the Lakers assuming we keep our core.
I wasn't suggesting playing them together all the time. But just having the length and versatility available on your roster.
Oubre is not a good defender. There is no "D."
RE: Mavs Trade Discussion + Salary Chart - dirkfansince1998 - 02-14-2020
(02-14-2020, 05:43 PM)aguiar95 Wrote: Turner would turn us into a younger (and better to me) version of the Lakers assuming we keep our core.
Don´t like the fit. Turner is similar to KP on both defense and offense. He prefers jump shots over inside scoring and is a great rim protector with mediocre rebounding ability. Probably a little bit stronger and a better post defender.
Talent wise it is a no brainer but I don´t know if it would be smart to invest even more money into bigman. Especially knowing that RC likes to go small.
RE: Mavs Trade Discussion + Salary Chart - Mavs2019 - 02-14-2020
Maybe it was Dario again turning Donnie down.
So much young talent in that rookie game. Just keep the pick and work toward max space in 2021. Luka is already working the whole league.
RE: Mavs Trade Discussion + Salary Chart - Mavs2019 - 02-15-2020
(02-14-2020, 02:04 PM)DanSchwartzman Wrote:(02-14-2020, 01:57 PM)Fuerza1 Wrote:(02-13-2020, 10:49 PM)DanSchwartzman Wrote: "With Dwight Powell’s Achilles rupture in January, Porzingis is now turning into more of a pick-and-roll screen setter than he was used before his injury. Before Powell’s injury, he was setting about 15 picks per 36 minutes for Doncic while Porzingis was down around seven per 36 minutes, according to Second Spectrum data. Since then, Porzingis has actually topped Powell’s peak: He’s setting about 16 picks for Doncic per 36 minutes, while Maxi Kleber has gone from about eight per 36 minutes to 14. (Before Powell’s injury, Kleber was actually setting more picks per 36 minutes for Doncic than even Porzingis.)"
So how do we get rid of Powell?
I'm not sure you do. No decision needs to be made until Summer of 21 at the earliest. You can see what you have post-injury in the 20/21 season. Who's to say he can't still be an effective bench contributor (like the two seasons prior to this one). If you get to July 21 and IF he's not worth keeping and IF his salary interferes with something you wish to do, you stretch waive him for a little over $4m per year. No need to hurry the process.
(Taken from another thread)
It has to be made on draft night, IF we trade our 1st round pick. That´s the only potential trade, where we can swing the talent/asset pendulum so much in our favour that a Powell dump becomes a possibility.
Say
Gordon for Powell + Wright + 1st round pick.
You can still use your MLE as long as the contract is team-friendly and immediately tradeable (buyers-market).
2021/2022
Porzingis 31.6
Kleber/Curry/DFS/Brunson 23.0
Gordon 16.4
Doncic 10.0
----------------------
$81.0M on a projected $125M.
That core and $44M in capspace. We in business my friends.
RE: Mavs Trade Discussion + Salary Chart - IamDougieFresh - 02-15-2020
(02-15-2020, 05:35 AM)Mavs2019 Wrote: It has to be made on draft night, IF we trade our 1st round pick. That´s the only potential trade, where we can swing the talent/asset pendulum so much in our favour that a Powell dump becomes a possibility.
Say
Gordon for Powell + Wright + 1st round pick.
You can still use your MLE as long as the contract is team-friendly and immediately tradeable (buyers-market).
2021/2022
Porzingis 31.6
Kleber/Curry/DFS/Brunson 23.0
Gordon 16.4
Doncic 10.0
----------------------
$81.0M on a projected $125M.
That core and $44M in capspace. We in business my friends.
Sign me up
RE: Mavs Trade Discussion + Salary Chart - DanSchwartzgan - 02-15-2020
(02-15-2020, 05:35 AM)Mavs2019 Wrote:(02-14-2020, 02:04 PM)DanSchwartzman Wrote:(02-14-2020, 01:57 PM)Fuerza1 Wrote: So how do we get rid of Powell?
I'm not sure you do. No decision needs to be made until Summer of 21 at the earliest. You can see what you have post-injury in the 20/21 season. Who's to say he can't still be an effective bench contributor (like the two seasons prior to this one). If you get to July 21 and IF he's not worth keeping and IF his salary interferes with something you wish to do, you stretch waive him for a little over $4m per year. No need to hurry the process.
Say
Gordon for Powell + Wright + 1st round pick.
Why does Orlando take on Powell when they already have 3 centers and two PF's (not counting Gordon)? Until someone sees Powell on an NBA court again, you have to figure he has negative value and actually hurts the effort to get Gordon. Fortunately, you can do this in July with Wright and Jackson. The biggest question with Gordon is whether we want to carry salary into 2021. Wright gets us out of $9mm, Jackson has a $12mm cap hold and Powell can be S/W for a savings of about $7mm. Even if you take Jackson's hold off the table, the cost of Wright plus the S/W Powell gets you to the same money as having Gordon. So good point there.
I want to clean up something I said that was wrong (but probably doesn't change any outcome). I was listening to Followell on a podcast at The Athletic and I think Cuban's 3 way where a team didn't want to give up an important player was the Morris to LAL deal where we get Green and Kuzma goes to NY. The breakdown being LAL decided not to give up Kuzma. Note that Green is owed money in 20, but not 2021.
As I and many others have proposed, the sign and extend was probably Gallinari. I actually made two mistakes on the capology regarding the extend and trade in various posts. A player would have to have signed more than two years ago (that takes Favors out of play from my list). And, a player with a PO could drop the PO now (no need to wait until June). I read the FAQ differently, but someone I respect on another board said this was possible. It doesn't matter with Gallinari as he is totally free in June. But would have made a player with a PO eligible for trade in February. The reason it doesn't matter is there is no incentive for someone like DeRozan (for instance) to drop their PO for 20/21 unless multiple years were being added. Dallas appears to want to pay for 20/21 only and not beyond so they can maintain flexibility for 2021 free agency. So, my conclusion is Cuban's Big Deal's were simply Green and Gallinari and both would have been one year only (which is why Gallinari turned us down).
I don't agree with the 2021 cap room strategy. If Giannis is moved, the last way it happens is as a FA in 2021. He either signs his super-max this summer or is traded in the summer or in February of 2021 because he didn't sign the extension. There is no way he makes it to the 2021 free agent market. What does that leave? Beal is off the market. Davis will probably sign a new 2+1 max this summer that gets him to his 10th year in 2022. Who else is out there that is under 30 that is worth planning around?
RE: Mavs Trade Discussion + Salary Chart - omahen - 02-15-2020
(02-15-2020, 11:09 AM)DanSchwartzman Wrote: Who else is out there that is under 30 that is worth planning around?
Oladipo. Gobert is also a free agent in that year, but I doubt he fits. Of course both can sign extension or get traded before 2021.
2021 free agency pipedream is just stupid strategy.
RE: Mavs Trade Discussion + Salary Chart - DanSchwartzgan - 02-15-2020
(02-15-2020, 11:23 AM)omahen Wrote:(02-15-2020, 11:09 AM)DanSchwartzman Wrote: Who else is out there that is under 30 that is worth planning around?
Oladipo. Gobert is also a free agent in that year, but I doubt he fits. Of course both can sign extension or get traded before 2021.
2021 free agency pipedream is just stupid strategy.
I agree with the last sentence. Build assets for a Freak trade maybe...not cap room.
I don't see Gobert and KP on the same team. Oladipo is an interesting case. I'm not sure he's a max guy, but if he is, an extension doesn't reach. So, he either extends for less than his max or waits until he's free. That is where the opportunity is. He's the same age as Hardaway. Is he that much better? 25 year old VO was better than 25 year old THJ. 27 year old VO is a shell of his former self right now. I'm not sure he's worth skipping other opportunities for in order to try to sign him in 21...thus the last sentence of your post.
RE: Mavs Trade Discussion + Salary Chart - Mavs2019 - 02-15-2020
(02-15-2020, 11:09 AM)DanSchwartzman Wrote:(02-15-2020, 05:35 AM)Mavs2019 Wrote:(02-14-2020, 02:04 PM)DanSchwartzman Wrote:(02-14-2020, 01:57 PM)Fuerza1 Wrote: So how do we get rid of Powell?
I'm not sure you do. No decision needs to be made until Summer of 21 at the earliest. You can see what you have post-injury in the 20/21 season. Who's to say he can't still be an effective bench contributor (like the two seasons prior to this one). If you get to July 21 and IF he's not worth keeping and IF his salary interferes with something you wish to do, you stretch waive him for a little over $4m per year. No need to hurry the process.
Say
Gordon for Powell + Wright + 1st round pick.
Why does Orlando take on Powell when they already have 3 centers and two PF's (not counting Gordon)? Until someone sees Powell on an NBA court again, you have to figure he has negative value and actually hurts the effort to get Gordon. Fortunately, you can do this in July with Wright and Jackson. The biggest question with Gordon is whether we want to carry salary into 2021. Wright gets us out of $9mm, Jackson has a $12mm cap hold and Powell can be S/W for a savings of about $7mm. Even if you take Jackson's hold off the table, the cost of Wright plus the S/W Powell gets you to the same money as having Gordon. So good point there.
I want to clean up something I said that was wrong (but probably doesn't change any outcome). I was listening to Followell on a podcast at The Athletic and I think Cuban's 3 way where a team didn't want to give up an important player was the Morris to LAL deal where we get Green and Kuzma goes to NY. The breakdown being LAL decided not to give up Kuzma. Note that Green is owed money in 20, but not 2021.
As I and many others have proposed, the sign and extend was probably Gallinari. I actually made two mistakes on the capology regarding the extend and trade in various posts. A player would have to have signed more than two years ago (that takes Favors out of play from my list). And, a player with a PO could drop the PO now (no need to wait until June). I read the FAQ differently, but someone I respect on another board said this was possible. It doesn't matter with Gallinari as he is totally free in June. But would have made a player with a PO eligible for trade in February. The reason it doesn't matter is there is no incentive for someone like DeRozan (for instance) to drop their PO for 20/21 unless multiple years were being added. Dallas appears to want to pay for 20/21 only and not beyond so they can maintain flexibility for 2021 free agency. So, my conclusion is Cuban's Big Deal's were simply Green and Gallinari and both would have been one year only (which is why Gallinari turned us down).
I don't agree with the 2021 cap room strategy. If Giannis is moved, the last way it happens is as a FA in 2021. He either signs his super-max this summer or is traded in the summer or in February of 2021 because he didn't sign the extension. There is no way he makes it to the 2021 free agent market. What does that leave? Beal is off the market. Davis will probably sign a new 2+1 max this summer that gets him to his 10th year in 2022. Who else is out there that is under 30 that is worth planning around?
Just how I´d value Gordon as the Mavs. He´d be worth
20th pick + semi-negative contract (Powell)
31st pick + neutral contracts (Wright+Jackson)
Brunson + neutral contracts (Wright+Jackson)
to me.
It´s not like Gordon is actually our biggest need. We need a reliable 20 PPG creator.
I think the Mavs have no problem to extend players like Gallinari or DeRozan past 2021. You just need to be sure, you can trade them at no additional costs, if a Giannis or Oladipo becomes available. That´s smart business, but imagine you extend 36 year Igoudala for $15M p.a. and he stinks it up for the next 12 months. GS paid a 1st to get rid of him, when he was 35.
RE: Mavs Trade Discussion + Salary Chart - omahen - 02-15-2020
My free agent targets would be:
1. Convince Fournier to opt out and SnT for him
2. SnT for Bogdanovic (not likely), Harris or Montrezl
3. Try to get Hernangomez from Minny
Trade we might have enough gunpowder with our 2020 picks and 2025 one. I see following possible targets:
- Beal
- Porter+Markannen
- McCullum
- Turner
- Gordon
- Philly will have a huge tax bill. I wonder what could be exploited it they decide to break it up. Harris and Horford are good players but way overpaid. Too bad we don't have any salary fillers anymore...
RE: Mavs Trade Discussion + Salary Chart - ItsGoTime - 02-15-2020
(02-15-2020, 11:41 AM)Mavs2019 Wrote: It´s not like Gordon is actually our biggest need. We need a reliable 20 PPG creator.It’s so weird to read this when we’re the #1 offense and wherever we are on defense (#17 was last I saw). I can’t figure out that mentality at all.
RE: Mavs Trade Discussion + Salary Chart - DanSchwartzgan - 02-15-2020
BTW, getting Gordon and rehabbing his value a bit is the kind of contract and player you'll need for a Giannis package. I see 4 scenarios with Giannis:
1. He signs his super max extension (by far the most likely)
2. He doesn't and Milwaukee trades him in the summer (probably the most value available)
3. He doesn't and Milwaukee trades him at the TDL (didn't work with A. Davis)
4. He doesn't and Milwaukee takes the chance of doing an Anthony Davis type deal with one of MANY suitors.
Ironically, with so many teams having cap room, it becomes less important for any one team to have it. In other words, Giannis can go a dozen different places with no return to Milwaukee. So, Milwaukee could just as well trade him to a team without cap room if they offer a good deal and Giannis wants to go there.
Why does a trade matter to Giannis? He's in the same situation as Davis. IF he turns down the super-max to go elsewhere, he likely does a 2 + 1 to get to his 10th season. He qualifies for 35% of the cap in two years, but only if he has Bird rights. So, I may need to soften my "no way he makes it to the summer of 2021 as a free agent" stance. Just asking here, what does KP's usage become with two 35+ usage guys like Luka and Giannis on his team?
(02-15-2020, 11:47 AM)LukstapsPorzingic Wrote: When he's right I think Oladipo is absolutely worth a max. You won't find a much better fit next to Luka than a guard who can create his own shot and play All-NBA defense at the same time. Unfortunately, if we see him bounce back I expect he'll just sign an extension with Indy.
To that end, you may have missed an important point made above. An extension gets VO to about $25 million (120% of what he makes in 20/21). In 2021 he will be an 8 year player. IF the cap is the projected $125mm, he will be eligible for a max of $37.5mm. Again, I'm not sure Oladipo is worth $37.5mm, but if he is, he can not get there through an extension and has to hit the open market in 21. If he chooses the extension route, he's maxed at a much smaller number than his Max.
A healthy VO would be fantastic here, but I'm not sure you make your plans for the next two years around him. He could certainly sign a $25mm per year extension this summer or could re-sign with Indy five seconds into free agency in the summer of 2021.
RE: Mavs Trade Discussion + Salary Chart - Mavs2019 - 02-15-2020
(02-15-2020, 11:45 AM)ItsGoTime Wrote:(02-15-2020, 11:41 AM)Mavs2019 Wrote: It´s not like Gordon is actually our biggest need. We need a reliable 20 PPG creator.It’s so weird to read this when we’re the #1 offense and wherever we are on defense (#17 was last I saw). I can’t figure out that mentality at all.
It´s cause we run up the score against shitty teams that put in no effort. Regular season is about professionalism and bringing it every night. That´s how you overachieve. Carlisle is a master at this. Play-offs are a different animal.
How many times have we gone past the first round under Carlisle. It´s not because Carlisle suddenly becomes a different coach. It´s cause talent ultimately matters in the play-offs. Plus stars get calls in the play-offs.
I was stanning hard for our short-handed B2B win against Charlotte for example, but if the Hornets tried any less on defense, they could have played the mascot and cheerleaders. Charlotte was so bad, that Carlisle probably wanted to call a timeout to yell at the opposing players.
Look at our struggles at the end of close games. That´s the play-offs for 48 minutes. I´m not saying we don´t need to improve our defense, but we are also one creator short on offense.