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+--- Thread: 2019-2020 Mavs Trade Discussion + Salary Chart (/showthread.php?tid=206)
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RE: Mavs Trade Discussion | RC: "I don't think anything will happen" (TDL Feb 6) - omahen - 02-06-2020
(02-06-2020, 09:40 AM)fifteenth Wrote: Answers to your questions:
1. They didn't find a deal they liked and that fit their plan.
2. They haven't shown zero willingness. You don't know what they're doing since it's out of our view.
I thought these questions:
Did Mavs in tanking seasons take bad salary for picks at all?
Sell any useful players for picks?
RE: Mavs Trade Discussion | RC: "I don't think anything will happen" (TDL Feb 6) - dirkfansince1998 - 02-06-2020
(02-06-2020, 09:32 AM)fifteenth Wrote:(02-06-2020, 09:24 AM)omahen Wrote: 1. Why they didn't utilize the assets in the summer (remaining cap space - convert to picks by taking some bad salary)?
2. Why they show absolutely zero willingness to utilize expiring/TE to gather assets?
Do you really think they didn't explore avenues for using the remaining cap space? Do you really think they're not willing to use the TPE?
You choose:
1. They aren't willing.
2. They conducted extensive conversations with teams and didn't find the deals they wanted.
If I remember it right the Mavs had somewhere between 10-12mio left if they wanted to stay out of the luxury tax. Do you really think that there wasn´t a better player than Jackson or Lee available for that money?
When the Mavs did not use it people on this board started to rave about the value of a TPE. Turn out it is useless and the Mavs screwed up.
You are describing two options and I think the latter one is more likely. They did not try. Or they tried and failed. Both aren´t good looks. Asset management has been terrible for years and it continues to be a problem. Thankfully Rick, Mark and RC have other strengths that can at least somewhat make up for it. Player development, drafting and trading.
RE: Mavs Trade Discussion | RC: "I don't think anything will happen" (TDL Feb 6) - omahen - 02-06-2020
(02-06-2020, 09:40 AM)fifteenth Wrote: They haven't shown zero willingness.
How do you know? Your claim is I don't know if they did, but that also goes for your take. What we both see is the result and the result is bad. Mavs didn't get a good player and Mavs didn't get any assets so far. But hey, they did their best. Good work all responsible, here is your bonus for giving your best effort!
RE: Mavs Trade Discussion | RC: "I don't think anything will happen" (TDL Feb 6) - ClutchDirk - 02-06-2020
https://media.giphy.com/media/OqAf4KtJ9MALM8b5EO/giphy.gif
RE: Mavs Trade Discussion | RC: "I don't think anything will happen" (TDL Feb 6) - fifteenth - 02-06-2020
(02-06-2020, 09:44 AM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: If I remember it right the Mavs had somewhere between 10-12mio left if they wanted to stay out of the luxury tax.
1. Do you really think that there wasn´t a better player than Jackson or Lee available for that money?
2. When the Mavs did not use it people on this board started to rave about the value of a TPE. Turn out it is useless and the Mavs screwed up.
You are describing two options and I think the latter one is more likely. They did not try.
3. Or they tried and failed.
4. Both aren´t good looks.
5. Asset management has been terrible for years and it continues to be a problem.
Thankfully Rick, Mark and RC have other strengths that can at least somewhat make up for it. Player development, drafting and trading.
1. I have no idea what was available. But NBA deals aren't as simple as taking Jackson or Lee back to the store, getting your money back, and then buying someone else.
2. "Rave" is overstated. But it is an asset. If they didn't find a deal they wanted, that doesn't mean that the asset is useless or that they screwed up. It just means that they didn't find the deal they wanted.
3. I don't think "not making a deal" is failure. I think building a bad roster and losing is failure.
4. I hate this phrase. I don't care what it looks like. I care about reality.
5. Your opinion. I believe it's overstated. There was a good chunk of time where I thought their asset management was awful (post championship) and wrote way too many words about that topic on this forum for a number of years. I actually think they're doing a good job with it now.
(02-06-2020, 09:43 AM)omahen Wrote: Did Mavs in tanking seasons take bad salary for picks at all?
Sell any useful players for picks?
You obviously want to lead the witness, so just tell me what you think.
RE: Mavs Trade Discussion | RC: "I don't think anything will happen" (TDL Feb 6) - ClutchDirk - 02-06-2020
(02-06-2020, 09:43 AM)omahen Wrote:Answer to both questions is no...(02-06-2020, 09:40 AM)fifteenth Wrote: Answers to your questions:
1. They didn't find a deal they liked and that fit their plan.
2. They haven't shown zero willingness. You don't know what they're doing since it's out of our view.
I thought these questions:
Did Mavs in tanking seasons take bad salary for picks at all?
Sell any useful players for picks?
Instead they used them to get KP...
RE: Mavs Trade Discussion | RC: "I don't think anything will happen" (TDL Feb 6) - fifteenth - 02-06-2020
(02-06-2020, 09:46 AM)omahen Wrote: 1. How do you know? Your claim is I don't know if they did, but that also goes for your take.
2. What we both see is the result and the result is bad.
3. Mavs didn't get a good player and Mavs didn't get any assets so far. But hey, they did their best. Good work all responsible, here is your bonus for giving your best effort!
1. Find, read and listen to people that are actually plugged in.
2. I don't think the results are bad. Making the wrong deal would be bad. Choosing to stick to your plan instead of taking a deal just to take a deal is not bad.
3. Not even sure what to way to this. Your expectation of being able to upgrade the roster at every trade deadline is not realistic. Sometimes the deal just isn't there.
RE: Mavs Trade Discussion | RC: "I don't think anything will happen" (TDL Feb 6) - ClutchDirk - 02-06-2020
https://media.giphy.com/media/3orif3VHjBeYBDTGlG/giphy.gif
RE: Mavs Trade Discussion | RC: "I don't think anything will happen" (TDL Feb 6) - Scott41theMavs - 02-06-2020
Welp, I called the Burks/GR3 debacle...
Do we love our TPE and Lee in blue?
Hour t-minus 6...
RE: Mavs Trade Discussion | RC: "I don't think anything will happen" (TDL Feb 6) - fifteenth - 02-06-2020
(02-06-2020, 10:12 AM)Scott41theMavs Wrote: Welp, I called the Burks/GR3 debacle...
I wasn't reading the forum when this went down. Why is it a debacle?
RE: Mavs Trade Discussion | RC: "I don't think anything will happen" (TDL Feb 6) - omahen - 02-06-2020
(02-06-2020, 10:01 AM)ClutchDirk Wrote: Answer to both questions is no...
Instead they used them to get KP...
So it is pretty safe to say gathering assets is not really a priority of this management.
Don't try to sell a story, how getting KP was some elaborate 4 year strategy. It was pure luck and Mavs admitted it as such. Chance appeared and they took it. It doesn't mean at all they would not be able to take it if their roster was different and they had more picks from previous asset aquisitions.
RE: Mavs Trade Discussion | RC: "I don't think anything will happen" (TDL Feb 6) - fifteenth - 02-06-2020
(02-06-2020, 10:16 AM)omahen Wrote: 1. So it is pretty safe to say gathering assets is not really a priority of this management.
2. Don't try to sell a story, how getting KP was some elaborate 4 year strategy. It was pure luck and Mavs admitted it as such. Chance appeared and they took it. It doesn't mean at all they would not be able to take it if their roster was different and they had more picks from previous asset aquisitions.
1. wrong
2. finding a way to not give credit to the Mavs for the KP trade is ridiculous
RE: Mavs Trade Discussion | RC: "I don't think anything will happen" (TDL Feb 6) - embellisher - 02-06-2020
(02-06-2020, 10:22 AM)fifteenth Wrote: 2. finding a way to not give credit to the Mavs for the KP trade is ridiculous
Yep. Totally.
RE: Mavs Trade Discussion | RC: "I don't think anything will happen" (TDL Feb 6) - omahen - 02-06-2020
(02-06-2020, 10:05 AM)fifteenth Wrote: 1. Find, read and listen to people that are actually plugged in.
I am. I find Tim Cato by far most reasonable. His take was, Mavs shouldn't do anything in a hurry in a win now principle. However, even him didn't wright a single word about getting assets for Lee and TPE. Neither did any other "insider" mention any scenario where Mavs are shopping Lee and TE for picks.
(02-06-2020, 10:05 AM)fifteenth Wrote: I don't think the results are bad. Making the wrong deal would be bad. Choosing to stick to your plan instead of taking a deal just to take a deal is not bad.
Making the wrong deal is bad, of course. However, this can't be an excuse to stand pat, so that you prevent bad deal to happen.
(02-06-2020, 10:05 AM)fifteenth Wrote: Not even sure what to way to this. Your expectation of being able to upgrade the roster at every trade deadline is not realistic. Sometimes the deal just isn't there.
Interesting how the deal is always there for some GMs actively trying to make their team better. Morey, Riley, Brand, whoever is GM in Clippers, Pelinka to name a few. Not everything works, but in general their teams are in a position to make a splash. I am not sure you realize how huge step will be from were we are now to the title. How many things will have to go the right way. As much as we like our boys, we are still 2 very good players away from contending. And even when we get them, there is no guarantee it will be enough.
what bothers me is that some of the GMs mentioned have shown huge creativity in making things happen with very limited assets. Something, I haven't seen from Mavs. So there is huge doubt, that they are really doing everything that would be possible to improve the team - either short or long term.
(02-06-2020, 10:22 AM)fifteenth Wrote: 1. wrong
Wow, you really made a good, constructive answer there. So Mavs have 0 picks to show in 2 years of tanking (Clutch told me, didn't go and check), yet you are saying I am wrong in conducting gathering assets is not their priority. Wow again!
(02-06-2020, 10:22 AM)fifteenth Wrote: 2. finding a way to not give credit to the Mavs for the KP trade is ridiculous
I give them all the credit to grab the chance. They didn't think twice or blink at the price, considering KP was injured. great move! However, I give them zero credit for creating KP opportunity. They were not even on KP list of prefered destinations... They publicly admitted, that opportunity arrived (Knicks called them), it wasn't the Mavs bothering Knicks daily to sell them KP.
RE: Mavs Trade Discussion | RC: "I don't think anything will happen" (TDL Feb 6) - ClutchDirk - 02-06-2020
From what I read last TDL was the Mavs had been constantly calling about KP.for more than a year...other teams were upset the Mavs got him before they could make an offer...
RE: Mavs Trade Discussion | RC: "I don't think anything will happen" (TDL Feb 6) - fifteenth - 02-06-2020
(02-06-2020, 10:28 AM)omahen Wrote: I am. I find Tim Cato by far most reasonable. His take was, Mavs shouldn't do anything in a hurry in a win now principle. However, even him didn't wright a single word about getting assets for Lee and TPE. Neither did any other "insider" mention any scenario where Mavs are shopping Lee and TE for picks.
From reading and listening I get the picture that the Mavs are working hard looking for upgrades. There aren't details about "who and what" because the Mavs are tight lipped about that.
(02-06-2020, 10:28 AM)omahen Wrote: Making the wrong deal is bad, of course. However, this can't be an excuse to stand pat, so that you prevent bad deal to happen.
It's not an excuse, it's just reality. Sometimes standing pat is better than the deals available.
(02-06-2020, 10:28 AM)omahen Wrote: Interesting how the deal is always there for some GMs actively trying to make their team better...
It's not like all teams make huge deals every year. In the 2018 and 2019 calendar years the Mavs made two of the best deals made (you really saw no creativity or willingness to improve the team in those deals?). In 2020 this forum is upset that we didn't get Burks and GRIII. Trade home runs typically don't happen annually. And to me, the fact that we didn't get Burks and GRIII means absolutely nothing.
RE: Mavs Trade Discussion | RC: "I don't think anything will happen" (TDL Feb 6) - embellisher - 02-06-2020
(02-06-2020, 10:38 AM)ClutchDirk Wrote: From what I read last TDL was the Mavs had been constantly calling about KP.for more than a year...other teams were upset the Mavs got him before they could make an offer...
Exactly. Yes, the deal happened quickly and quietly. But Donnie deserves some credit for reminding Knicks over and over that we wanted KP. The relationship between the front offices is why the trade happened.
RE: Mavs Trade Discussion | RC: "I don't think anything will happen" (TDL Feb 6) - ClutchDirk - 02-06-2020
(02-06-2020, 10:45 AM)embellisher Wrote:But we got stuck with the worst contract in history which was THJ who needed to be dumped immediately...(02-06-2020, 10:38 AM)ClutchDirk Wrote: From what I read last TDL was the Mavs had been constantly calling about KP.for more than a year...other teams were upset the Mavs got him before they could make an offer...
Exactly. Yes, the deal happened quickly and quietly. But Donnie deserves some credit for reminding Knicks over and over that we wanted KP. The relationship between the front offices is why the trade happened.
RE: Mavs Trade Discussion | RC: "I don't think anything will happen" (TDL Feb 6) - fifteenth - 02-06-2020
(02-06-2020, 10:28 AM)omahen Wrote: Wow, you really made a good, constructive answer there. So Mavs have 0 picks to show in 2 years of tanking (Clutch told me, didn't go and check), yet you are saying I am wrong in conducting gathering assets is not their priority. Wow again!
I wasn't trying to make an argument. I was just rejecting your argument. It's flat out wrong to say that gathering assets is not a priority. Now you say "top priority". And I'll actually agree with that, because their top priority is to build a roster that can win as much as possible for as long as possible.
(02-06-2020, 10:28 AM)omahen Wrote: I give them all the credit to grab the chance. They didn't think twice or blink at the price, considering KP was injured. great move! However, I give them zero credit for creating KP opportunity. They were not even on KP list of prefered destinations... They publicly admitted, that opportunity arrived (Knicks called them), it wasn't the Mavs bothering Knicks daily to sell them KP.
![[Image: giphy.gif]](https://media.giphy.com/media/gKNiW6zL0y0Zl7H1R4/giphy.gif)
RE: Mavs Trade Discussion | RC: "I don't think anything will happen" (TDL Feb 6) - dirkfansince1998 - 02-06-2020
(02-06-2020, 09:56 AM)fifteenth Wrote: 1. I have no idea what was available. But NBA deals aren't as simple as taking Jackson or Lee back to the store, getting your money back, and then buying someone else.
I don´t mean a trade at the dead line. I was talking about available capspace last summer. They could have signed another player and decided not to do it. No trade necessary. They did not use the capspace. Now they aren´t using the TPE. Meaning that what Scott has been telling us for month is actually true. They punted on more than 10mio that could have been used to improve the roster.
(02-06-2020, 09:56 AM)fifteenth Wrote: 2. "Rave" is overstated. But it is an asset. If they didn't find a deal they wanted, that doesn't mean that the asset is useless or that they screwed up. It just means that they didn't find the deal they wanted.
I was all doom and gloom after free agency but some of the roster moves are looking better than I thought. Still cannot stop myself from screaming "I told you so" when it comes to the value of a TPE and the fantasies of some posters.
(02-06-2020, 09:56 AM)fifteenth Wrote: 3. I don't think "not making a deal" is failure. I think building a bad roster and losing is failure.
10 + mio in capspace are an asset. A TPE doesn´t have the same value but is still an asset. If the Mavs don´t use it they will be left with nothing. Lose value.
That´s the definition of bad asset management.
What you are describing is the...If I do nothing I cannot make a mistake approach.
(02-06-2020, 09:56 AM)fifteenth Wrote: 5. Your opinion. I believe it's overstated. There was a good chunk of time where I thought their asset management was awful (post championship) and wrote way too many words about that topic on this forum for a number of years. I actually think they're doing a good job with it now.
Obviously disagree. They did a good job with the big decisions in the last two seasons but still disregard minor assets. Always going for the TD. Never kicking FGs. That approach can lead to big wins like the KP and Luka trade but it is also the reason why the Mavs struggled to surround them with proven starters.
I think it is more on Mark than Donnie. Always waiting for a better opportunity that might never come. Sometimes it works out but in most cases it doesn´t.