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DRAFT: #18 [Green] & #31 [Terry] & trade for #36 [Tyler Bey] - Printable Version

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+--- Thread: DRAFT: #18 [Green] & #31 [Terry] & trade for #36 [Tyler Bey] (/showthread.php?tid=200)



RE: DRAFT: Nov 18 (Combine: Sep 28 - Oct 16) | Mavs get #18 & #31 - dirkfansince1998 - 10-01-2020

Rule #41 Never fall for shooting performances in an empty gym.


RE: DRAFT: Nov 18 (Combine: Sep 28 - Oct 16) | Mavs get #18 & #31 - cow - 10-01-2020

(10-01-2020, 05:41 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: https://twitter.com/MikeMiller_13/status/1311472627429539840?s=20

Am I crazy, or is this RJ Hampton shooting better than his reputation suggests he can?

This is as impressive as Yi Jianlian dominating a metal folding chair.


RE: DRAFT: Nov 18 (Combine: Sep 28 - Oct 16) | Mavs get #18 & #31 - radioaktiv - 10-01-2020

Wow, I would love to see Achiuwa drop to 18, kinda doubt it as he seems to be a safer bet than most early-mid 1R prospects.  If he's there though... I don't think Dwight Powell's presence is going to stop them from picking him.


RE: DRAFT: Nov 18 (Combine: Sep 28 - Oct 16) | Mavs get #18 & #31 - cow - 10-01-2020

(10-01-2020, 10:34 PM)radioaktiv Wrote: Wow, I would love to see Achiuwa drop to 18, kinda doubt it as he seems to be a safer bet than most early-mid 1R prospects.  If he's there though... I don't think Dwight Powell's presence is going to stop them from picking him.

Word.  Passing on BPA because they seem redundant is bad draft strategy.


RE: DRAFT: Nov 18 (Combine: Sep 28 - Oct 16) | Mavs get #18 & #31 - Kammrath - 10-01-2020

I am IN on Ty-Shon Alexander.

@"DanSchwartzman" he fits your 3-D guard role and @"Scott41theMavs" he is sort of a poor man's Jrue Holiday. 

He held opponents to 30% shooting (!!!), which is just insanely good. A suffocating defender who can guard the smalls Luka cannot. And he shot 40% from three and is better off ball than on ball.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=97KNapTEG5k


RE: DRAFT: Nov 18 (Combine: Sep 28 - Oct 16) | Mavs get #18 & #31 - Scott41theMavs - 10-02-2020

(10-01-2020, 11:04 PM)Kammrath Wrote: I am IN on Ty-Shon Alexander.

@"DanSchwartzman" he fits your 3-D guard role and @"Scott41theMavs" he is sort of a poor man's Jrue Holiday.

He held opponents to 30% shooting (!!!), which is just insanely good. A suffocating defender who can guard the smalls Luka cannot. And he shot 40% from three and is better off ball than on ball.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=97KNapTEG5k

Kamm, we can't draft everybody....

That said, this guy should be available in the mid second round. Buy a pick and grab him.


RE: DRAFT: Nov 18 (Combine: Sep 28 - Oct 16) | Mavs get #18 & #31 - Mavs2019 - 10-02-2020

(10-02-2020, 12:09 AM)Scott41theMavs Wrote:
(10-01-2020, 11:04 PM)Kammrath Wrote: I am IN on Ty-Shon Alexander.

@"DanSchwartzman" he fits your 3-D guard role and @"Scott41theMavs" he is sort of a poor man's Jrue Holiday.

He held opponents to 30% shooting (!!!), which is just insanely good. A suffocating defender who can guard the smalls Luka cannot. And he shot 40% from three and is better off ball than on ball.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=97KNapTEG5k

Kamm, we can't draft everybody....

That said, this guy should be available in the mid second round. Buy a pick and grab him.
 
Yeah the roster size will have to be adressed. It´s 12 under contract already without Burke, MKG, #18 and #31. I hope they don´t go for the stupid strategy to only draft somebody at #31, if he´s willing to go on a cheap two-way deal. Just so they can keep an extra roster spot for another minimum veteran like Courtney Lee. I want the guy that thinks he should be a lottery pick, not the guy that thinks he hit the lottery by just signing a G-League contract.


RE: DRAFT: Nov 18 (Combine: Sep 28 - Oct 16) | Mavs get #18 & #31 - Dundalis - 10-02-2020

(10-01-2020, 05:13 PM)Scott41theMavs Wrote:
(10-01-2020, 04:08 PM)Mavs2019 Wrote:
(10-01-2020, 03:49 PM)Scott41theMavs Wrote:
(10-01-2020, 03:26 PM)KillerLeft Wrote:
(10-01-2020, 02:26 PM)Kammrath Wrote: This is my last reply on this particular issue:

I think you are dead wrong about TBey. He was listed as a GUARD in college and is listed as a G/F or wing in mock drafts. He is NOT a "big."

Reed on the other hand is MUCH more of a big, a F/C.

I understand your view on the subject, I just flatly disagree. I didn't think my post warranted a reply, as we've discussed this already. Not sure why you wrote this.

I think that the need for a defensive "wing" could be met by a "four wing," which could involve a "big man" who can hit a three and successfully defend the perimeter. I think such a player would fit in the starting lineup much better than Powell would given KP's flourishing in what used to be Powell's role. I have said many times that the Mavs need another creator next to Luka (more than anything else, including that defensive wing), but I don't expect that guy to be available in the draft (unless we trade up for Haliburton, perhaps?), so I'm fine with Achiuwa, Reed, Tiger, Smith, et al.
Tyler Bey is a SF/PF, while Achiuwa, Reed and Smith are PF/C. I´m fine with taking one of them at #31, but at #18 such projected low-ceiling players would be disappointing. Of course if Achiuwa turns into Bam I always knew.

What do you expect to get at 18? I think if the Mavs keep their pick, when they have such a significant need to upgrade their roster, they should think in terms of the highest floor possible. They need someone who can be part of the rotation right away (even with some learning curve/growing pains), because our current rotation is Luka, KP, doesn't-really-fit-because-defense-and-creation THJ, can-be-your-fifth-best-starter DFS, and a bunch of bench players.

BTW, I consider T. Bey a clear-cut four.

What? I have no idea why people are stuck in win now mode. This team has one of the longest open windows in the league. The idea that we absolutely have to upgrade the roster to be in a spot of contention next season has no basis in the reality of the team. IMO that's just an emotional short term gratification fan response. Acquire assets so we can build over the next 2-3, even 4 seasons. This team is garbage at acquiring valuable trade assets (young players with upside and draft picks), and being in win now mode for so long is only a partial excuse, because other teams have done way better at it while also being winning teams. Not every player we bring in HAS to be able to fit seemlessly into the team, you can bring players or picks in because they are or will become valuable trade assets that you can then upgrade again later, or use in big trade moves. That's how good teams go about roster building (at least the teams that aren't FA destinations that can always attract the best FA's). So many of the up and coming teams have built rosters with way better tradeable assets than the Mavs, which you want, if you want to be able to manouver yourself into position to make trades for high level talent that becomes available (since that's our one area of strength as we have never proven a FA destination). When Dirk is at the back end of his relative prime between the age of about 30-35, it makes a bit more sense, but not now and not for a number of years. You can make all the excuses about why that's the case, but for me it starts at how garbage this team has treated the draft. Plenty of teams have done far better jobs at it than we have without having constantly great draft position. If you can bring in imediate help, great, but do it through trades or FA. This team almost always goes with supposed high floor type players with non lottery picks in the first round of the draft, and it almost never works out. We have what is effectively two low end first round picks. I'm not even saying Bey would necessarily be a bad pick (certainly not at 31), but let's not make the same dumb draft mistakes we've made in the past by purposefully not picking BPA.

(09-30-2020, 12:58 PM)SleepingHero Wrote:
(09-30-2020, 12:53 PM)cow Wrote: 12 Kings - 12, 35, 43, 52


THJ+Wright+18+31 for Buddy+12+43? 

Who says no? 

I'm never getting off the Buddy train.
Would do that in a heatbeat. With the way the Mavs system seems to elevate shooters the way we do, Hield would probably shoot 45% like Curry just did here, but on super high volume. The kind of offensive warping affect that would have with the likes of Luka and KP around would be insane, and more than offset the defensive issues. You draft BPA at 12, and focus on acquiring a wing defensive specialist in FA or trade for the other starter spot, with much less need for offensive production from that position. Kings would have to be mad to do it though, Hield surely would attract better offers with his shooting ability, despite the down year.


RE: DRAFT: Nov 18 (Combine: Sep 28 - Oct 16) | Mavs get #18 & #31 - Mapka - 10-02-2020

(10-02-2020, 01:32 AM)Dundalis Wrote:
(10-01-2020, 05:13 PM)Scott41theMavs Wrote:
(10-01-2020, 04:08 PM)Mavs2019 Wrote:
(10-01-2020, 03:49 PM)Scott41theMavs Wrote:
(10-01-2020, 03:26 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: I understand your view on the subject, I just flatly disagree. I didn't think my post warranted a reply, as we've discussed this already. Not sure why you wrote this.

I think that the need for a defensive "wing" could be met by a "four wing," which could involve a "big man" who can hit a three and successfully defend the perimeter. I think such a player would fit in the starting lineup much better than Powell would given KP's flourishing in what used to be Powell's role. I have said many times that the Mavs need another creator next to Luka (more than anything else, including that defensive wing), but I don't expect that guy to be available in the draft (unless we trade up for Haliburton, perhaps?), so I'm fine with Achiuwa, Reed, Tiger, Smith, et al.
Tyler Bey is a SF/PF, while Achiuwa, Reed and Smith are PF/C. I´m fine with taking one of them at #31, but at #18 such projected low-ceiling players would be disappointing. Of course if Achiuwa turns into Bam I always knew.

What do you expect to get at 18? I think if the Mavs keep their pick, when they have such a significant need to upgrade their roster, they should think in terms of the highest floor possible. They need someone who can be part of the rotation right away (even with some learning curve/growing pains), because our current rotation is Luka, KP, doesn't-really-fit-because-defense-and-creation THJ, can-be-your-fifth-best-starter DFS, and a bunch of bench players.

BTW, I consider T. Bey a clear-cut four.

What? I have no idea why people are stuck in win now mode. This team has one of the longest open windows in the league. The idea that we absolutely have to upgrade the roster to be in a spot of contention next season has no basis in the reality of the team. IMO that's just an emotional short term gratification fan response. Acquire assets so we can build over the next 2-3, even 4 seasons. This team is garbage at acquiring valuable trade assets (young players with upside and draft picks), and being in win now mode for so long is only a partial excuse, because other teams have done way better at it while also being winning teams. Not every player we bring in HAS to be able to fit seemlessly into the team, you can bring players or picks in because they are or will become valuable trade assets that you can then upgrade again later, or use in big trade moves. That's how good teams go about roster building (at least the teams that aren't FA destinations that can always attract the best FA's). So many of the up and coming teams have built rosters with way better tradeable assets than the Mavs, which you want, if you want to be able to manouver yourself into position to make trades for high level talent that becomes available (since that's our one area of strength as we have never proven a FA destination). When Dirk is at the back end of his relative prime between the age of about 30-35, it makes a bit more sense, but not now and not for a number of years. You can make all the excuses about why that's the case, but for me it starts at how garbage this team has treated the draft. Plenty of teams have done far better jobs at it than we have without having constantly great draft position. If you can bring in imediate help, great, but do it through trades or FA. This team almost always goes with supposed high floor type players with non lottery picks in the first round of the draft, and it almost never works out. We have what is effectively two low end first round picks. I'm not even saying Bey would necessarily be a bad pick (certainly not at 31), but let's not make the same dumb draft mistakes we've made in the past by purposefully not picking BPA.

We are in win now mode because we can win now. 
If you have a chance you go for it. 
We entered this stage one-and-a half years ago, when we gave away all possible draft picks. 

I don't say screw everything to win now. But to pick a wellfitting highfloor prospect instead of a boom-or-bust high potential high risk player is fine with me. 

If you don't even try to win because your time will come, then you will be the Sixers or the Timberwolves.


RE: DRAFT: Nov 18 (Combine: Sep 28 - Oct 16) | Mavs get #18 & #31 - Dundalis - 10-02-2020

(09-29-2020, 04:01 PM)SwisherPrice Wrote: They would love a pure shooter/combo guard like Terry. Could be a long-term replacement for Seth. No defense though!
Seems like far better creation skills than Seth. Anyone see any of his namesake Jason Terry in him? Skillset seems similar, PnR and off ball heavy. He had a growth spurt and put on a bunch of weight apparently, so could be a lot of physical upside.

(10-02-2020, 02:35 AM)Mapka Wrote:
(10-02-2020, 01:32 AM)Dundalis Wrote:
(10-01-2020, 05:13 PM)Scott41theMavs Wrote:
(10-01-2020, 04:08 PM)Mavs2019 Wrote:
(10-01-2020, 03:49 PM)Scott41theMavs Wrote: I think that the need for a defensive "wing" could be met by a "four wing," which could involve a "big man" who can hit a three and successfully defend the perimeter. I think such a player would fit in the starting lineup much better than Powell would given KP's flourishing in what used to be Powell's role. I have said many times that the Mavs need another creator next to Luka (more than anything else, including that defensive wing), but I don't expect that guy to be available in the draft (unless we trade up for Haliburton, perhaps?), so I'm fine with Achiuwa, Reed, Tiger, Smith, et al.
Tyler Bey is a SF/PF, while Achiuwa, Reed and Smith are PF/C. I´m fine with taking one of them at #31, but at #18 such projected low-ceiling players would be disappointing. Of course if Achiuwa turns into Bam I always knew.

What do you expect to get at 18? I think if the Mavs keep their pick, when they have such a significant need to upgrade their roster, they should think in terms of the highest floor possible. They need someone who can be part of the rotation right away (even with some learning curve/growing pains), because our current rotation is Luka, KP, doesn't-really-fit-because-defense-and-creation THJ, can-be-your-fifth-best-starter DFS, and a bunch of bench players.

BTW, I consider T. Bey a clear-cut four.

What? I have no idea why people are stuck in win now mode. This team has one of the longest open windows in the league. The idea that we absolutely have to upgrade the roster to be in a spot of contention next season has no basis in the reality of the team. IMO that's just an emotional short term gratification fan response. Acquire assets so we can build over the next 2-3, even 4 seasons. This team is garbage at acquiring valuable trade assets (young players with upside and draft picks), and being in win now mode for so long is only a partial excuse, because other teams have done way better at it while also being winning teams. Not every player we bring in HAS to be able to fit seemlessly into the team, you can bring players or picks in because they are or will become valuable trade assets that you can then upgrade again later, or use in big trade moves. That's how good teams go about roster building (at least the teams that aren't FA destinations that can always attract the best FA's). So many of the up and coming teams have built rosters with way better tradeable assets than the Mavs, which you want, if you want to be able to manouver yourself into position to make trades for high level talent that becomes available (since that's our one area of strength as we have never proven a FA destination). When Dirk is at the back end of his relative prime between the age of about 30-35, it makes a bit more sense, but not now and not for a number of years. You can make all the excuses about why that's the case, but for me it starts at how garbage this team has treated the draft. Plenty of teams have done far better jobs at it than we have without having constantly great draft position. If you can bring in imediate help, great, but do it through trades or FA. This team almost always goes with supposed high floor type players with non lottery picks in the first round of the draft, and it almost never works out. We have what is effectively two low end first round picks. I'm not even saying Bey would necessarily be a bad pick (certainly not at 31), but let's not make the same dumb draft mistakes we've made in the past by purposefully not picking BPA.

We are in win now mode because we can win now. 
If you have a chance you go for it. 
We entered this stage one-and-a half years ago, when we gave away all possible draft picks. 

I don't say screw everything to win now. But to pick a wellfitting highfloor prospect instead of a boom-or-bust high potential high risk player is fine with me. 

If you don't even try to win because your time will come, then you will be the Sixers or the Timberwolves.

Yeah that's really not a very good reason. We are in win now mode because we can be? Nope. The only teams that can afford to be blase about long term roster building are teams like the Lakers that can attract almost any FA they want. Or desperate teams, with aging superstars. Being in win now mode is also a very easy way to handicap yourself into salary cap hell, stuck with bad contracts for low value, immoveable, average NBA players, or just having a constant rotation of recycled average players that don't move you forward much and don't give you much in the way of valuable assets to go out and upgrade if you aren't able to do anything in FA. Also there is a huge difference between the Sixers and Timberwolves. Don't even know what you are saying there. Sixers are a perennial playoff team with plenty of desirable assets they can use in trades to take the next step. They are not remotely in a bad position, but obviously if your GM isn't any good they can ruin any roster. The collection of tradeable assets the Sixers have built up is far, far superior to what we have. Yeah Luka is the best player, but we aren't trading him, we are trying to build around him. I'm not sure you understand about the concept of high value asset collection, because your statement about not even trying to win isn't really relevant at all. My post was not purely meant to be about who we specifically take with pick 18 anyway, more about the whole mindset of being in win now mode, the fact the Mavs have been for a long time, and the bad job they have done at asset collection, where other franchises have done it way better despite being consistent playoff teams.


RE: DRAFT: Nov 18 (Combine: Sep 28 - Oct 16) | Mavs get #18 & #31 - Mapka - 10-02-2020

(10-02-2020, 02:41 AM)Dundalis Wrote:

Yeah that's really not a very good reason. We are in win now mode because we can be? Nope. The only teams that can afford to be blase about long term roster building are teams like the Lakers that can attract almost any FA they want. Or desperate teams, with aging superstars. Being in win now mode is also a very easy way to handicap yourself into salary cap hell, stuck with bad contracts for low value, immoveable, average NBA players, or just having a constant rotation of recycled average players that don't move you forward much and don't give you much in the way of valuable assets to go out and upgrade if you aren't able to do anything in FA. Also there is a huge difference between the Sixers and Timberwolves. Don't even know what you are saying there. Sixers are a perennial playoff team with plenty of desirable assets they can use in trades to take the next step. They are not remotely in a bad position, but obviously if your GM isn't any good they can ruin any roster. The collection of tradeable assets the Sixers have built up is far, far superior to what we have. Yeah Luka is the best player, but we aren't trading him, we are trying to build around him. I'm not sure you understand about the concept of high value asset collection, because your statement about not even trying to win isn't really relevant at all. My post was not purely meant to be about who we specifically take with pick 18 anyway, more about the whole mindset of being in win now mode, the fact the Mavs have been for a long time, and the bad job they have done at asset collection, where other franchises have done it way better despite being consistent playoff teams.

To me I don´t need other reasons for trying to win than Love for the Game and Competitivness.

I´m with you, the MBT does an aweful job in amassing assets as they aren´t even trying. They do try to build a team.
To make things worse, an asset in the NBA is something, that´s more valueable to someone else than to you and our players tend to overachive.

I´m not sure which teams you see collecting assets and playing winning basketball. I give you the Nuggets by taking a gamble on Porter Jr. - could have gone the other way and they sunk a first.

I also don´t see a way that doesn´t at least give a chance to win now and makes some sense.
What are the win-now moves you are afraid of?


RE: DRAFT: Nov 18 (Combine: Sep 28 - Oct 16) | Mavs get #18 & #31 - dirkfansince1998 - 10-02-2020

(10-02-2020, 04:05 AM)Mapka Wrote: I´m not sure which teams you see collecting assets and playing winning basketball. I give you the Nuggets by taking a gamble on Porter Jr. - could have gone the other way and they sunk a first.


Celtics have been doing it for years. Ainge is stealing value and draft picks from anyone that is still willing to trade with him. It started with the KG/Pierce trade. He robbed the Nets, Mavs, Hornets and many more. This year they can use three additional 1st round picks to add talent to a core that just made the ECFs.


RE: DRAFT: Nov 18 (Combine: Sep 28 - Oct 16) | Mavs get #18 & #31 - Mapka - 10-02-2020

(10-02-2020, 04:12 AM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote:
(10-02-2020, 04:05 AM)Mapka Wrote: I´m not sure which teams you see collecting assets and playing winning basketball. I give you the Nuggets by taking a gamble on Porter Jr. - could have gone the other way and they sunk a first.


Celtics have been doing it for years. Ainge is stealing value and draft picks from anyone that is still willing to trade with him. It started with the KG/Pierce trade. He robbed the Nets, Mavs, Hornets and many more. This year they can use three additional 1st round picks to add talent to a core that just made the ECFs.

They are shuffling their Silverlings they got for trading their Dirks and singing the top FAs. We were after the same player this year and he didn´t even blink before chosing them at the moment the Sixers made Horford decline his overpayed last year.

By the way what would you call the Luka and KP trades other than stealing value.

But I see where you are coming from, I tought about them too, but to me they don´t belong. Would accept them as 4 of 30 better than us. Heats and OKC will be the next in line.

€dit When I think about it, they are clogging their caps with aweful contracts and find a dummy to give them gold instead lol.


RE: DRAFT: Nov 18 (Combine: Sep 28 - Oct 16) | Mavs get #18 & #31 - Dundalis - 10-02-2020

(10-02-2020, 04:05 AM)Mapka Wrote:
(10-02-2020, 02:41 AM)Dundalis Wrote:

Yeah that's really not a very good reason. We are in win now mode because we can be? Nope. The only teams that can afford to be blase about long term roster building are teams like the Lakers that can attract almost any FA they want. Or desperate teams, with aging superstars. Being in win now mode is also a very easy way to handicap yourself into salary cap hell, stuck with bad contracts for low value, immoveable, average NBA players, or just having a constant rotation of recycled average players that don't move you forward much and don't give you much in the way of valuable assets to go out and upgrade if you aren't able to do anything in FA. Also there is a huge difference between the Sixers and Timberwolves. Don't even know what you are saying there. Sixers are a perennial playoff team with plenty of desirable assets they can use in trades to take the next step. They are not remotely in a bad position, but obviously if your GM isn't any good they can ruin any roster. The collection of tradeable assets the Sixers have built up is far, far superior to what we have. Yeah Luka is the best player, but we aren't trading him, we are trying to build around him. I'm not sure you understand about the concept of high value asset collection, because your statement about not even trying to win isn't really relevant at all. My post was not purely meant to be about who we specifically take with pick 18 anyway, more about the whole mindset of being in win now mode, the fact the Mavs have been for a long time, and the bad job they have done at asset collection, where other franchises have done it way better despite being consistent playoff teams.

To me I don´t need other reasons for trying to win than Love for the Game and Competitivness.

I´m with you, the MBT does an aweful job in amassing assets as they aren´t even trying. They do try to build a team.
To make things worse, an asset in the NBA is something, that´s more valueable to someone else than to you and our players tend to overachive.

I´m not sure which teams you see collecting assets and playing winning basketball. I give you the Nuggets by taking a gamble on Porter Jr. - could have gone the other way and they sunk a first.

I also don´t see a way that doesn´t at least give a chance to win now and makes some sense.
What are the win-now moves you are afraid of?
Celtics and the Heat. Way better job at asset collection. Already mentioned 76ers. The Celtics particularly have been a playoff team for like 6 straight seasons. Yes they got two top 5 picks in Tatum and Brown, but that was not because they were a bad team getting gifted high picks, they acquired those picks through asset collection in trades and turned them into the backbone of their team for the next decade. We don't do things like acquire picks, we trade them away in part because of our incessant win now mentality. And no, I'm not implying trading for Luka or KP were bad moves, it's one of the few areas where we are able to do some good work from time to time with limited resources. The reason we always have limited resources is implied. Even before lucking out by being in position to move up and get Luka, we basically had DSJ, and a bunch old guys with very limited trade value. The win now move would be to trade our picks in the draft when we are going to be pick deprived for a while, for an old overvalued role player type because they fill a specific need we have identified. Or drafting a stashable oversees player in order to save some money for future FA. Trading the picks for pure salary dumps. Along with moves like potentially overpaying our own players who we constantly overvalue, like possibly THJ. Basically passing over genuine opportunities to actually do the best job at asset acquisition over 3, 4, 5 years because more importance is put on putting the pieces together to win "next year" over anything else. Hopefully it doesn't happen, but there's too much evidence of constant win now focused mentality by the MBT, that i'll believe it when I see it.


RE: DRAFT: Nov 18 (Combine: Sep 28 - Oct 16) | Mavs get #18 & #31 - Mavs2019 - 10-02-2020

(10-02-2020, 02:35 AM)Mapka Wrote:
(10-02-2020, 01:32 AM)Dundalis Wrote:
(10-01-2020, 05:13 PM)Scott41theMavs Wrote:
(10-01-2020, 04:08 PM)Mavs2019 Wrote:
(10-01-2020, 03:49 PM)Scott41theMavs Wrote: I think that the need for a defensive "wing" could be met by a "four wing," which could involve a "big man" who can hit a three and successfully defend the perimeter. I think such a player would fit in the starting lineup much better than Powell would given KP's flourishing in what used to be Powell's role. I have said many times that the Mavs need another creator next to Luka (more than anything else, including that defensive wing), but I don't expect that guy to be available in the draft (unless we trade up for Haliburton, perhaps?), so I'm fine with Achiuwa, Reed, Tiger, Smith, et al.
Tyler Bey is a SF/PF, while Achiuwa, Reed and Smith are PF/C. I´m fine with taking one of them at #31, but at #18 such projected low-ceiling players would be disappointing. Of course if Achiuwa turns into Bam I always knew.

What do you expect to get at 18? I think if the Mavs keep their pick, when they have such a significant need to upgrade their roster, they should think in terms of the highest floor possible. They need someone who can be part of the rotation right away (even with some learning curve/growing pains), because our current rotation is Luka, KP, doesn't-really-fit-because-defense-and-creation THJ, can-be-your-fifth-best-starter DFS, and a bunch of bench players.

BTW, I consider T. Bey a clear-cut four.

What? I have no idea why people are stuck in win now mode. This team has one of the longest open windows in the league. The idea that we absolutely have to upgrade the roster to be in a spot of contention next season has no basis in the reality of the team. IMO that's just an emotional short term gratification fan response. Acquire assets so we can build over the next 2-3, even 4 seasons. This team is garbage at acquiring valuable trade assets (young players with upside and draft picks), and being in win now mode for so long is only a partial excuse, because other teams have done way better at it while also being winning teams. Not every player we bring in HAS to be able to fit seemlessly into the team, you can bring players or picks in because they are or will become valuable trade assets that you can then upgrade again later, or use in big trade moves. That's how good teams go about roster building (at least the teams that aren't FA destinations that can always attract the best FA's). So many of the up and coming teams have built rosters with way better tradeable assets than the Mavs, which you want, if you want to be able to manouver yourself into position to make trades for high level talent that becomes available (since that's our one area of strength as we have never proven a FA destination). When Dirk is at the back end of his relative prime between the age of about 30-35, it makes a bit more sense, but not now and not for a number of years. You can make all the excuses about why that's the case, but for me it starts at how garbage this team has treated the draft. Plenty of teams have done far better jobs at it than we have without having constantly great draft position. If you can bring in imediate help, great, but do it through trades or FA. This team almost always goes with supposed high floor type players with non lottery picks in the first round of the draft, and it almost never works out. We have what is effectively two low end first round picks. I'm not even saying Bey would necessarily be a bad pick (certainly not at 31), but let's not make the same dumb draft mistakes we've made in the past by purposefully not picking BPA.

We are in win now mode because we can win now. 
If you have a chance you go for it. 
We entered this stage one-and-a half years ago, when we gave away all possible draft picks. 

I don't say screw everything to win now. But to pick a wellfitting highfloor prospect instead of a boom-or-bust high potential high risk player is fine with me. 

If you don't even try to win because your time will come, then you will be the Sixers or the Timberwolves.
We lost 2-4 to the team that lost 3-4 to the team that lost 1-4 to the champions.

We are also as close to contending as the current Sixers, partly because they have regressed due to their recent poor win-now decisions.

Lost Covington and Saric for Butler.
Lost two first rounds picks and Shamet for Harris.
Signed Horford and Redick.

Are we sure they are a worse team right now, if they had Saric, Covington, Shamet, and two 1st round picks.

Actually

Simmons
Shamet
Covington
Saric
Embiid

looks a very well-balanced young veteran TEAM with a great cap structure and all their future assets in place. Moves need to be made with multiple titles windows in mind not a few extra games next season.


RE: DRAFT: Nov 18 (Combine: Sep 28 - Oct 16) | Mavs get #18 & #31 - Mapka - 10-02-2020

(10-02-2020, 04:38 AM)Dundalis Wrote:
(10-02-2020, 04:05 AM)Mapka Wrote:
(10-02-2020, 02:41 AM)Dundalis Wrote:

Yeah that's really not a very good reason. We are in win now mode because we can be? Nope. The only teams that can afford to be blase about long term roster building are teams like the Lakers that can attract almost any FA they want. Or desperate teams, with aging superstars. Being in win now mode is also a very easy way to handicap yourself into salary cap hell, stuck with bad contracts for low value, immoveable, average NBA players, or just having a constant rotation of recycled average players that don't move you forward much and don't give you much in the way of valuable assets to go out and upgrade if you aren't able to do anything in FA. Also there is a huge difference between the Sixers and Timberwolves. Don't even know what you are saying there. Sixers are a perennial playoff team with plenty of desirable assets they can use in trades to take the next step. They are not remotely in a bad position, but obviously if your GM isn't any good they can ruin any roster. The collection of tradeable assets the Sixers have built up is far, far superior to what we have. Yeah Luka is the best player, but we aren't trading him, we are trying to build around him. I'm not sure you understand about the concept of high value asset collection, because your statement about not even trying to win isn't really relevant at all. My post was not purely meant to be about who we specifically take with pick 18 anyway, more about the whole mindset of being in win now mode, the fact the Mavs have been for a long time, and the bad job they have done at asset collection, where other franchises have done it way better despite being consistent playoff teams.

To me I don´t need other reasons for trying to win than Love for the Game and Competitivness.

I´m with you, the MBT does an aweful job in amassing assets as they aren´t even trying. They do try to build a team.
To make things worse, an asset in the NBA is something, that´s more valueable to someone else than to you and our players tend to overachive.

I´m not sure which teams you see collecting assets and playing winning basketball. I give you the Nuggets by taking a gamble on Porter Jr. - could have gone the other way and they sunk a first.

I also don´t see a way that doesn´t at least give a chance to win now and makes some sense.
What are the win-now moves you are afraid of?
Celtics and the Heat. Way better job at asset collection. Already mentioned 76ers. The Celtics particularly have been a playoff team for like 6 straight seasons. Yes they got two top 5 picks in Tatum and Brown, but that was not because they were a bad team getting gifted high picks, they acquired those picks through asset collection in trades and turned them into the backbone of their team for the next decade. We don't do things like acquire picks, we trade them away in part because of our incessant win now mentality. And no, I'm not implying trading for Luka or KP were bad moves, it's one of the few areas where we are able to do some good work from time to time with limited resources. The reason we always have limited resources is implied. Even before lucking out by being in position to move up and get Luka, we basically had DSJ, and a bunch old guys with very limited trade value. The win now move would be to trade our picks in the draft when we are going to be pick deprived for a while, for an old overvalued role player type because they fill a specific need we have identified. Or drafting a stashable oversees player in order to save some money for future FA. Trading the picks for pure salary dumps. Along with moves like potentially overpaying our own players who we constantly overvalue, like possibly THJ. Basically passing over genuine opportunities to actually do the best job at asset acquisition over 3, 4, 5 years because more importance is put on putting the pieces together to win "next year" over anything else. Hopefully it doesn't happen, but there's too much evidence of constant win now focused mentality by the MBT, that i'll believe it when I see it.

That´s not win-now moves, that´s flat out bad moves. I want them to make both picks - as there is no way to bundle them to move up. But if we can get Jrue I wouldn´t blink, if my Docs say he still has two arms and legs.
Don´t see how stashing a player is a win now move (you could just sell the pick). I don´t want to dump any salary, we will need everything we have for trades.
If we extend THJ it will be at a fair level, there is so few money around and everybody is wary about taking a player from us.

The only real win-now move I can see is trading for PC3 but OKC will get a better trade elsewhere.

Quote:We lost 2-4 to the team that lost 3-4 to the team that lost 1-4 to the champions.

We are also as close to contending as the current Sixers, partly because they have regressed due to their recent poor win-now decisions.

Lost Covington and Saric for Butler.
Lost two first rounds picks and Shamet for Harris.
Signed Horford and Redick.

Are we sure they are a worse team right now, if they had Saric, Covington, Shamet, and two 1st round picks.

Actually

Simmons
Shamet
Covington
Saric
Embiid

looks a very well-balanced young veteran TEAM with a great cap structure and all their future assets in place. Moves need to be made with multiple titles windows in mind not a few extra games next season.

The Sixers are like "Hans im Glück"
[Image: AKG30244.jpg]

they worked (tanked) hard for Assets and than traded them down for lesser ones. On the way they used up their shoes (making the supposed franchise players unhappy).  That´s the opposite of asset collection  Angel

I´m really curious how they will save this.


RE: DRAFT: Nov 18 (Combine: Sep 28 - Oct 16) | Mavs get #18 & #31 - Mavs2019 - 10-02-2020

(10-02-2020, 05:00 AM)Mapka Wrote:
(10-02-2020, 04:38 AM)Dundalis Wrote:
(10-02-2020, 04:05 AM)Mapka Wrote:
(10-02-2020, 02:41 AM)Dundalis Wrote:

Yeah that's really not a very good reason. We are in win now mode because we can be? Nope. The only teams that can afford to be blase about long term roster building are teams like the Lakers that can attract almost any FA they want. Or desperate teams, with aging superstars. Being in win now mode is also a very easy way to handicap yourself into salary cap hell, stuck with bad contracts for low value, immoveable, average NBA players, or just having a constant rotation of recycled average players that don't move you forward much and don't give you much in the way of valuable assets to go out and upgrade if you aren't able to do anything in FA. Also there is a huge difference between the Sixers and Timberwolves. Don't even know what you are saying there. Sixers are a perennial playoff team with plenty of desirable assets they can use in trades to take the next step. They are not remotely in a bad position, but obviously if your GM isn't any good they can ruin any roster. The collection of tradeable assets the Sixers have built up is far, far superior to what we have. Yeah Luka is the best player, but we aren't trading him, we are trying to build around him. I'm not sure you understand about the concept of high value asset collection, because your statement about not even trying to win isn't really relevant at all. My post was not purely meant to be about who we specifically take with pick 18 anyway, more about the whole mindset of being in win now mode, the fact the Mavs have been for a long time, and the bad job they have done at asset collection, where other franchises have done it way better despite being consistent playoff teams.

To me I don´t need other reasons for trying to win than Love for the Game and Competitivness.

I´m with you, the MBT does an aweful job in amassing assets as they aren´t even trying. They do try to build a team.
To make things worse, an asset in the NBA is something, that´s more valueable to someone else than to you and our players tend to overachive.

I´m not sure which teams you see collecting assets and playing winning basketball. I give you the Nuggets by taking a gamble on Porter Jr. - could have gone the other way and they sunk a first.

I also don´t see a way that doesn´t at least give a chance to win now and makes some sense.
What are the win-now moves you are afraid of?
Celtics and the Heat. Way better job at asset collection. Already mentioned 76ers. The Celtics particularly have been a playoff team for like 6 straight seasons. Yes they got two top 5 picks in Tatum and Brown, but that was not because they were a bad team getting gifted high picks, they acquired those picks through asset collection in trades and turned them into the backbone of their team for the next decade. We don't do things like acquire picks, we trade them away in part because of our incessant win now mentality. And no, I'm not implying trading for Luka or KP were bad moves, it's one of the few areas where we are able to do some good work from time to time with limited resources. The reason we always have limited resources is implied. Even before lucking out by being in position to move up and get Luka, we basically had DSJ, and a bunch old guys with very limited trade value. The win now move would be to trade our picks in the draft when we are going to be pick deprived for a while, for an old overvalued role player type because they fill a specific need we have identified. Or drafting a stashable oversees player in order to save some money for future FA. Trading the picks for pure salary dumps. Along with moves like potentially overpaying our own players who we constantly overvalue, like possibly THJ. Basically passing over genuine opportunities to actually do the best job at asset acquisition over 3, 4, 5 years because more importance is put on putting the pieces together to win "next year" over anything else. Hopefully it doesn't happen, but there's too much evidence of constant win now focused mentality by the MBT, that i'll believe it when I see it.

That´s not win-now moves, that´s flat out bad moves. I want them to make both picks - as there is no way to bundle them to move up. But if we can get Jrue I wouldn´t blink, if my Docs say he still has two arms and legs.
Don´t see how stashing a player is a win now move (you could just sell the pick). I don´t want to dump any salary, we will need everything we have for trades.
If we extend THJ it will be at a fair level, there is so few money around and everybody is wary about taking a player from us.

The only real win-now move I can see is trading for PC3 but OKC will get a better trade elsewhere.
See that´s the exact kind of move I would not make, unless it is cap-neutral for 2021 (say Curry+Kleber+Jackson). Otherwise what is the short-term rush?

You keep the 18th and 31st pick to see what you drafted. Then you approach Jrue in FA and you actually KNOW that he wants to be here long-term. Otherwise you face the chance that he pulls a Jimmy Butler and leaves you without two picks and THJ.

It´s a crazy reach to assume we can win the title next year by adding Jrue Holiday. That´s the only feasible scenario, where not waiting a year is benefitial.

From an asset management point you look for value in the MLE, make the two picks and sit on this for 12 months, unless some crazy trade offer comes along.


RE: DRAFT: Nov 18 (Combine: Sep 28 - Oct 16) | Mavs get #18 & #31 - Mapka - 10-02-2020

Wait - I said add Jrue for the picks like for #18, #31,Wright, JJ, WCS, 5 Mio.
Gifting away value roleplayers is not what I am envisioning.

If KP and Luka make an Allstar go away because they are not into winning there are some bigger problems lol.

If we have any cap in 2021, we have regressed.

What do you see in a #18 that you think he will become a better player and fit than Jrue?

I was laughing about Luka leaving but not taking a trade like this might be a way to piss him off.


RE: DRAFT: Nov 18 (Combine: Sep 28 - Oct 16) | Mavs get #18 & #31 - Mavs2019 - 10-02-2020

(10-02-2020, 06:22 AM)Mapka Wrote: Wait - I said add Jrue for the picks like for #18, #31,Wright, JJ, WCS, 5 Mio.
Gifting away value roleplayers is not what I am envisioning.

If we have any cap in 2021, we have regressed.
 
Yeah I got your idea, but if you acquire Jrue Holiday for expiring contracts, then you are basically saying that he is your 2021 FA signing in 2020 for the cost of two virtual first round picks. That´s the issue I have.

Our window is just opening, not closing. We don´t need to blow assets on 2021 FAs. If you feel Myles Turner or Aaaron Gordon are the guys, then make the move. Just don´t use assets for players that you can have for free in 2021.


RE: DRAFT: Nov 18 (Combine: Sep 28 - Oct 16) | Mavs get #18 & #31 - DanSchwartzgan - 10-02-2020

(10-01-2020, 06:55 PM)Kammrath Wrote:
(10-01-2020, 05:41 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: Am I crazy, or is this RJ Hampton shooting better than his reputation suggests he can?


Have you watched his game film? It's not just reputation, dude couldn't buy a bucket to save his life for long stretches. 40% from the field despite TONS of shots at the rim and 29% from three.

This is WAY better than he has shot in games. Can it translate to games? If so, he is a TAKE....but if this shooting is legit then I expect he will be a rapid riser on draft night and outside the Mavs range.

https://theathletic.com/2093647/2020/10/01/vecenie-why-im-buying-r-j-hampton-stock-after-changes-to-his-shot-mechanics/


Vecenie has moved him from 21 to 7 on his board.