MavsBoard

(02-12-2021, 11:40 PM)Hypermav Wrote: [ -> ]https://twitter.com/KenTremendous/status/1360422965200908290?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1360422965200908290%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_c10&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fsports.yahoo.com%2Fluka-doncic-zion-williamson-career-highs-points-pelicans-mavericks-nba-033438768.html

We have zero answer for zion or AD or Gobert or anyone else in the paint. Steph and CP3 types do what they want there too. Maybe WCS can stop it for certain stretches. Maxi and KP didn’t do much tonight

(02-12-2021, 10:20 PM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: [ -> ]Probably still searching for some kind of interior defense...call me when you findd a 7ft2 rim protector. The Mavs desperately need one.

I'm sorry but what? 

Kristaps was NOT the issue tonight regarding rim protection... at all. Out of Zion's 14 made buckets, Kristaps was at fault for 3 of them, with 1 being a good contest that Zion just made. The other 2 KP just got taken off the dribble by Zion's speed. Steven Adams had 2 made buckets, one where he overpowered KP on a rebound which led to a putback (his fault), and the other Luka fails to box out (not KP's fault).  Ingram? He had 3 made drives to the basket. One where just walks through THJ to the bucket as KP tries to contest but couldn't get the angle, one where he drives and Adams sets a sneaky pick to stop a KP contest, and the third where Maxi was a step slow on the recovery. 2 out of 4 Hernangomez's buckets came off a fastbreak and another coming off of a favorable loose ball. The only bucket he made in the halfcourt was a post-up over Willie. And that's pretty much it. Bledsoe had 1 drive where Richardson just got beat. 

It's really interesting that you single KP's performance on the interior D (where he had an overall average game there, nothing egregious like you and many others are making him out to be), when Maxi was THE worst defender on the court tonight. Multiple times he just got beat and overpowered by Zion. THJ too. Multiple times he was caught out of position and didn't pick up the right guy in transition. Willie? He got beat multiple times tonight. DFS? Ingram shot over him several times.  KP was at fault for at most FOUR of the Pels 24 interior made buckets, and we're going to make him the prime suspect? Give me a break. I understand you guys have completely written KP off, but at least be grounded in reality. 

https://go.nba.com/8lqd

I hate games like these, because it gives people the incentive to bang the drum that we need more big bodies in the paint. We don't. We need better perimeter defenders. Some of the ones we have are overrated. KP is a problem, but not because of his interior defense, because of his inability to switch out or defend PnR very well. Zion's game was an anomaly, we still won comfortably, it's not even remotely a reason to go trade for a player.

It's weird because no one bangs a drum when all sorts of elite perimeter shooters go off on us that we need an elite wing defender, it's only the rare time when someone has an elite scoring game in the paint against us that we apparently must acquire a high level paint defender at all costs.

(02-12-2021, 10:19 PM)omahen Wrote: [ -> ]KP is good if the opponent has center on him. He gets killed by smaller players guarding him as he can't exploit his height advantage

This seems to be accurate, but it makes no sense. His inability to knock down simple turn around jumpers over guys he has half a foot over is baffling when he can do it vs normal C's.

(02-13-2021, 02:09 AM)SleepingHero Wrote: [ -> ]I'm sorry but what? 

Kristaps was NOT the issue tonight regarding rim protection..

I don't agree. It is like he is not in the paint mostly. Not really blocking shots or at least changing the shots of opponents making it more difficult. Totally different than last season, where he was a serious factor in the paint as help defender. He provides no energy on the defensive side. I have never seen something like this WCS help defense example from him this season, plenty last one.

https://www.nba.com/stats/events/?GameEventID=506&GameID=0022000399&Season=2020-21&flag=1&title=Kleber%20S.FOUL%20(P4.T3)%20(J.Van%20Duyne)&sct=plot

(02-13-2021, 03:22 AM)Dundalis Wrote: [ -> ]His inability to knock down simple turn around jumpers over guys he has half a foot over is baffling when he can do it vs normal C's.

he lowers the ball in the process, allowing quicker smaller players with fast hands reaching in. He also seems to look to avoid contact. Look at this example. Luka would certainly draw a foul here after getting the defender in the air like that and still get a shot with a high enough probability to go in. 

https://www.nba.com/stats/events/?GameEventID=339&GameID=0022000399&Season=2020-21&flag=1&title=Porzingis%2015%27%20Jump%20Shot%20(25%20PTS)&sct=plot

(02-13-2021, 02:09 AM)SleepingHero Wrote: [ -> ]I'm sorry but what? 

Kristaps was NOT the issue tonight regarding rim protection... at all. Out of Zion's 14 made buckets, Kristaps was at fault for 3 of them, with 1 being a good contest that Zion just made. The other 2 KP just got taken off the dribble by Zion's speed. Steven Adams had 2 made buckets, one where he overpowered KP on a rebound which led to a putback (his fault), and the other Luka fails to box out (not KP's fault).  Ingram? He had 3 made drives to the basket. One where just walks through THJ to the bucket as KP tries to contest but couldn't get the angle, one where he drives and Adams sets a sneaky pick to stop a KP contest, and the third where Maxi was a step slow on the recovery. 2 out of 4 Hernangomez's buckets came off a fastbreak and another coming off of a favorable loose ball. The only bucket he made in the halfcourt was a post-up over Willie. And that's pretty much it. Bledsoe had 1 drive where Richardson just got beat. 

It's really interesting that you single KP's performance on the interior D (where he had an overall average game there, nothing egregious like you and many others are making him out to be), when Maxi was THE worst defender on the court tonight. Multiple times he just got beat and overpowered by Zion. THJ too. Multiple times he was caught out of position and didn't pick up the right guy in transition. Willie? He got beat multiple times tonight. DFS? Ingram shot over him several times.  KP was at fault for at most FOUR of the Pels 24 interior made buckets, and we're going to make him the prime suspect? Give me a break. I understand you guys have completely written KP off, but at least be grounded in reality. 

https://go.nba.com/8lqd

1/1 Transition 2vs1. KP isn´t even trying to stop the play but I give him a pass. Really difficult to defend a 2vs1.
2/2 Zion drives at Maxi. Maxi stays in front of him but he overpowers him. KP is ball watching. Not boxing out Adams. Not trying to play help defense. Even though he is in perfect posiiton.
3/3 KP and Maxi switch. Maxi on Adams. KP on Zion. Zion just walks by KP for an uncontested layup.
4/4 Lonzo pushing the pace. Maxi coming from the corner and getting beat in transition. Easy dunk for Zion. KP probably could have contested the dunk but not without fouling or giving up an and1.
5/5 Mavs defense out of position. Maxi on Lonzo. THJ doesn´t realize that he has to pick up Zion. Easy Zion drive from the corner. Once again KP isn´t even trying to step  up and play help defense.

KP on the bench

6/6 FT-line face up. Zion beats WCS to the rim.
7/7 Post up. Baseline drive vs Maxi. Good defense but Zion finishes the reverse layup.

KP back in the game

8/8 Zion-Adams pick and roll. Maxi and KP switch. Zion easily beats KP with a baseline drive and finishes the play with a dunk. KP makes it worse with a cheap foul. And1.
9/9 Ingram-Zion pick and roll. DFS and Maxi switch. Ingram dishes out a well timed bounce pass. Easy layup. Next stupid foul. And1. KP boxed out Adams. Did not attempt to play help defense from the weakside.
10/10 Ball-Zion pick and roll. Once again an easy bounce pass and and1 dunk after a cheap foul from Kleber. KP is not in the play. Instead he is guarding Hernangomez in the corner (Hernangomez is 0/4 from 3 for the season).
11/11 Zion posts up Kleber. Good defense on a hook shot but he makes it anyway. KP once again wrestling Adams. Not protecting the rim.
12/13 Maxi steps up to stop the Ingram drive. Ingram swings it to Zion. Maxi cuts of the drive but Zion is deep in the paint and just finishes over him. KP in a great position but not trying to contest the shot. Once again being pushed out of the way by Adams.

KP on the bench

13/14 Redick misses a shot. Good contest from Kleber. Hernangomes tip out. Luka on Zion. Lob pass in the paint. WCS steps up and tries to help but Zion finishes over him.

KP back in the game

14/15 Zion catches the ball at the FT line and beats KP to the rim. Good contest. Better offense.

You are rightfully pointing out that KP wasn´t the man defender vs Zion. But he was the help defender at the rim and simply refused to step up and contest shots.


I don´t want to turn this into a KP bashing thread. And agree that the entire team played really bad on defense. Maxi was outmatched vs Zion but his teammates played no help defense and it looks like RC wasn´t willing to double Zion. Probably a smart decision because the Pelicans couldn´t miss from 3 in the first half.
KP was not the issue when it comes to rim protection? Maybe...just maybe not playing any help defense in the paint is an issue. The Mavs had no rim protection and that´s a big problem. I give Adams a lot of credit because he made some really smart veteran plays to push KP out of position or prevent him from contesting shots. But that´s not an excuse. The center is the most important defender on the floor and KP wasn´t doing his job. Not really sure why. I guess he wanted to prevent easy offensive boards for Adams and focused on early boxouts but that´s not really helping the team when Zion is getting uncontested layup and dunks in the paint.

Meanwhile Maxi gets a pass...

(02-13-2021, 09:51 AM)ClutchDirk Wrote: [ -> ]Meanwhile Maxi gets a pass...

And agree that the entire team played really bad on defense. Maxi was outmatched vs Zion but his teammates played no help defense and it looks like RC wasn´t willing to double Zion.

I thing we all mentioned that Maxi was bad on defense but no one was proclaiming that he had a great game or wasn´t a problem on defense. I responded to SleepingHeros claim that KP wasn´t a problem. That´s simply not the case. And it´s not only a one game sample size. He thinks that we are just trying to scapegoat KP but the numbers don´t lie.  The Mavs ranked 2nd in defensive rating with a healthy Kleber and WCS. They rank last in the league since KPs return. We obviously have to mention the COVID cases but it´s not like the return of the missing guys improved the defense. It´s actually getting worse.

We obviously have to mention that the defensive decline is at least somewhat compensated by an improved offense but if we are just talking about defense KPs return was the changing point of the season. He is the biggest liability on the floor. Beyond terrible on the perimeter and in pick and roll situations. Not what he used to be as a rim protector and help defender.
The Mavs need more from him. I don´t expect him to turn into Adebayo or Gobert but he needs to make an impact in the paint and at least somewhat improve his ability to defend in space.

(02-13-2021, 10:28 AM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: [ -> ]Not what he used to be as a rim protector and help defender.

That's what I don't get, last year I was nervous when KP left the floor because the opposing team would just run layup drills on the Mavs.  KP would come back in and literally stop that bleeding.  This year he looks lost and slow to react.  I think he has the ability, who knows what is holding him back from at least returning to that level.

(02-13-2021, 10:28 AM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: [ -> ]The Mavs need more from him. 

After what I have seen from him defensively this year, the "more" that the Mavs need from him is what can be garnered in trade.

(02-13-2021, 09:51 AM)ClutchDirk Wrote: [ -> ]Meanwhile Maxi gets a pass...

To me, the only issue with Maxi is that he often seems to be contact averse, flinching back and not going aggressively for loose balls around the rim.  You have to go straight for loose balls, rebounds, passes.   And I see Powell also sometimes seem to be similarly passive.

(02-13-2021, 11:23 AM)mtrot Wrote: [ -> ]To me, the only issue with Maxi is that he often seems to be contact averse, flinching back and not going aggressively for loose balls around the rim.  You have to go straight for loose balls, rebounds, passes.   And I see Powell also sometimes seem to be similarly passive.

Last night Maxi was fouling but not nowhere close enough to stop a shot...but all game I got to hear about how it was KPs fault...

(02-13-2021, 10:35 AM)Hypermav Wrote: [ -> ]I think he has the ability, who knows what is holding him back from at least returning to that level.

Fear of injury, maybe?

Kleber is also not playing his best defense these days, that's true. 

I'm less worried about Kleber though, because:

A) he's coming back from Covid, and there's reason to hope his conditioning and general play will improve with time.

B) He shows no signs, even at his worst, of being unable to MOVE fluidly. He can run, start moving in any direction he wants, stop his momentum quickly when he wants, etc. 

C) He's not on a fairly lengthy, guaranteed max contract extension and having the team built around him. The Mavs could literally dump him anytime they wanted, and the consequences would be relatively small. When a player's value as an asset FAR outreaches what he's paid and what it cost the team to originally acquire him, that tends to buy him some benefit of the doubt from fans.