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I´ve had numerous discussions with my brother, wether the Mavs should entertain trading KP for Simmons. He thinks the Sixers would be crazy to do it. I think the Mavs would be crazy to do it. There´s no middle ground with us two. What do you think?

My reasoning is that we´ve got burned with trading shooting for defense before (Rondo, J-Rich) and Simmons has been so bad, he´s absolutely unplayable.

That said, it comes down to wether you think Simmons could develope into a better offensive player than KP can be as a defensive player.

I have my doubts.

Absolutely yes
Value wise, Ben has way more than KP, he is more healthy than KP despite dealing with injuries of his own 
He brings defense and playmaking, he lacks in scoring but he won't be the main ball handler.

Mavs can entertain this as much as they want, but I don't see Philly doing it. For the purpose of discussion. If Philly would be willing to do it, I would see Simmons as an upgrade over KP. I agree offensive concerns come play-off time are legit. Can he be coached to at least develop one part of offensive game other than fastbreak?

(06-19-2021, 08:07 AM)khaled1987 Wrote: [ -> ]Absolutely yes
Value wise, Ben has way more than KP, he is more healthy than KP despite dealing with injuries of his own 
He brings defense and playmaking, he lacks in scoring but he won't be the main ball handler.

He brings absolutely no playmaking. Have you watched the last few games?

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(06-19-2021, 08:09 AM)omahen Wrote: [ -> ]Mavs can entertain this as much as they want, but I don't see Philly doing it. For the purpose of discussion. If Philly would be willing to do it, I would see Simmons as an upgrade over KP. I agree offensive concerns come play-off time are legit. Can he be coached to at least develop one part of offensive game other than fastbreak?

Can you imagine KP spacing the floor for Embiid. Defense would be a concern, but man surrounding Embiid with Curry, KP, Danny Green and some PG? 

If I´m the Sixers, I´m all over this deal.

(06-19-2021, 08:09 AM)omahen Wrote: [ -> ]Mavs can entertain this as much as they want, but I don't see Philly doing it. For the purpose of discussion. If Philly would be willing to do it, I would see Simmons as an upgrade over KP. I agree offensive concerns come play-off time are legit. Can he be coached to at least develop one part of offensive game other than fastbreak?

No need to coach him. He can already do a lot on offense. Just needs space and shooting around him. The 76ers problem aren´t about talent. It´s about the fit. Simmons cannot attack the paint because Embiid/Howard clog the paint. Embiid can be doubled in the post because Simmons isn´t providing any spacing. Right now Simmons is obviously completly out of it but he wasn´t as bad in the first round.
Simmons can clearly lead an offense. Did it when Embiid was out. He just needs to be the only non shooter on the floor. Would be easy to to do that in Dallas. Doncic at PG. Simmons as the starting PF next to a stretch big like Kleber or even as the small ball center. Three shooters around them. Spam the two man game.

Simmons would be sort of like a positionless player in the Mavs offense, but kind of the 5 since he's a non-shooter. Mavs just need 3 shooters and you are fine. You would want another frontcourt guy with some size, Maxi or a Batum type might suffice. You won't have shot-blocking but you would have a full-switching scheme. You could always get a shot blocker to bring off the bench.

Lineup would be something like:

Luka, THJ, DFS, Maxi, Simmons.

There would be a temptation I think to get one of these bigs that sort-of shoot outside okay but I think you need a legit scoring big to make it work. Maxi for his faults is a 40% shooter in the regular season at least at pretty good volume. I don't think a Turner type (even tho I love Turner) is going to work. So you really need a big wing (again think. Batum) so you can just switch everything. That is the way the NBA is going anyway.

Ha! How did JRich for Curry turn out?

I don't buy the theory 

(06-19-2021, 08:56 AM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: [ -> ]Simmons cannot attack the paint because Embiid/Howard clog the paint.

Having a big (or two) on the floor never stopped anyone. Sure doesn't stop Luka. Simmons' problem is he can't shoot.

That doesn't mean he doesn't have value though. I really like StepBackJay's idea of playing him as a small ball center.

(06-19-2021, 08:09 AM)omahen Wrote: [ -> ]Mavs can entertain this as much as they want, but I don't see Philly doing it. For the purpose of discussion. If Philly would be willing to do it, I would see Simmons as an upgrade over KP. I agree offensive concerns come play-off time are legit. Can he be coached to at least develop one part of offensive game other than fastbreak?

I think that question will be answered if Philly loses to Atlanta on Sunday and he's not productive.

If you say no you should lose posting rights for the Roster Talk thread for a month.

I would take Simmons for KP.  I am a KP homer.

Philly/Morey would never do that deal.

Hawks are playing Young and Lou at the same time and get away with it. If Simmons even remotely can be considered a capable playmaker, how is this possible.
Regarding the Simmons at 5 idea: I frequently listen to the "rights to ricky sanchez pod" (sixers focused) and they emphasize again and again that he's not able to provide the rim protecting and rebounding. He's no Draymond. The host talked about this on the latest Lowe Post too

Hell yes!  I’d put Brunson, Green, and a pick into the trade as well to make it happen.  Simmons is the second best defensive player in the NBA.  Morey’s probably too smart to do this, but if he wanted to pair Embiid with another big who can operate outside the paint then who knows.

I'd do it in a heartbeat. And I'd seriously consider working around Simmons' offensive weaknesses by doing the one thing Philly can't do -- start him at center. Surround Luka/Simmons with wing shooters and run the P&R into the ground until opposing teams just wear down. And then sub in Brunson/Powell to abuse the second unit the same way. 

I do agree with the point about rim protection and rebounding, but I feel like you could get some bench role players to help with both needs. And to compensate, the offensive efficiency would be off the charts. It's sorta like our lineups with Powell starting at center before he got hurt. Only now Powell is the backup and the starter can not only rim-run but also defend 1-5 and handle the ball.

Although if you're going to dream, I really love the idea of a Turner/Simmons frontcourt. Simmons drives and passes, Turner shoots and protects the rim, and both wreak havoc on defense.

Problem is, there's no evidence that Simmons is a good roll man. Certainly not at all in the ballpark of pre injury DP

No,  I say let's first see how KP rolls with a new coach.

Damn it!  I hate to be pinned down...when it really means nothing.  Means nothing because the Mavs are not going to consult me about the trade.  I voted no...but it's very slim...49 to 51% no.  IF we had a TALL secondary ball handler/creator/scorer/defender/etc that I think we need to go with Luka...then maybe I would vote yes.  But we don't have that player.  This is Luka's team...meaning it needs to be built completely around him.  WHEN it is built around Luka he probably won't be the top scorer on the team, but he will elevate the team to heights they will never achieve separately.  This why the GM and coach are going to be so important.  I hope Cuban doesn't whiff it...

God I hope Cuban doesnt whiff it...

Teh last game they played.

6 points (2-6 FG, 1-2 FT), 9 rebounds, 5 assists, 0 steals, 1 block
16 points (6-12 FG, 4-4 FT), 11 rebounds, 1 assist, 2 steals, 0 block

If Rick Carlisle were still the head coach, i probably would

I wouldnt trade KP just for the sake of trading him and now that Rick is gone i would like to see what a new head coach could do with KP

1000 out of a 1000 times without hesitation.

In my humble opinion, Ben Simmons is a better and more valuable player than even the version of KP we THOUGHT the Mavs were getting. That trade would be close, for sure, but I think I'd rather have Simmons, who sees the court like a genius and is so good defensively that he can single-handedly change the game on that end (the rarest of things). 

But Simmons vs. the version of KP the Mavs actually got in reality? That's an easy call, imo. I doubt such a trade would be taken seriously by the people on the other end of the phone, but I hope someone at the Mavs gets around to trying.