MavsBoard - Playoff Series Imponderables

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This was one of the oddest of series. Stalwarts of the season vanished. The team featured some of its bit players. The team performed better than expected, then seemed to fold like a cheap tent. What happened, and couldn’t it have been foreseen, at the coaching and/or roster construction levels?

LUKA. Was terrific, easily one of the best players in the postseason. But wore down with his extra minutes. Gasping for breath in fourth quarters, he was unable to consistently deliver in the games’ closing minutes. It was clear why they couldn’t just shorten his minutes — they hemorrhaged points with every second he was off the floor.

Was this a problem with Luka not taking care of his body? The Mavs failing to have an adequate backup? (See Brunson). Another problem?

PORZINGIS. Counted on to be the second star, KP was not necessarily that even in the regular season, but he disappeared in the playoffs. Serving as a decoy has value, certainly, and we saw that in some of the games. But taking KP out of the offense and into the corner meant there was a 20-point, 10-rebound hole in what one would expect a second option to contribute. Also, very little rim protection.

Very disappointing. Can he still serve as a force offensively? Something wrong with his role? Is he too limited in moving around to defend any more? Ultra-tall guys (over 7’1”) generally don’t prove durable in the NBA — is KP past his sell-by date?

RICHARDSON. A guy who started most of the season’s games was first benched and then reduced to a cameo role, being a negative on the court, prone to turnovers and missed shots.

Was this first noticed at the end of the season? Was he dealing with an undisclosed injury? How did he fall off the face of the earth like that?

MAXI. Initially tasked with guarding Kawhi, he was far from a stopper, and was eventually mostly replaced. Offensively, he seemed afraid of the moment, reluctant to take open shots. Considered one of the pillars of the team, he didn’t make the hoped-for impact.

Kleber was fighting injuries, which was evidently a lingering thing. Rick Carlisle: He was battling something all season long. One week it was one thing. The next week was another thing. It was always something.

Was this vanishing performance accounted for by playing hurt? Or, after two postseasons of not showing up, is the stage just too big for him? Should they have foreseen this, and given Kawhi some different looks earlier?

BRUNSON. Jalen was one of the best offensive players in the season, but was more or less played off the floor in the postseason. This seems like one that could have been predicted. Miniature point guards have not generally fared well in terms of making deep runs in the playoffs. The Clippers’ long, rangy players and extreme depth eclipsed him, and at best, he managed to create a few shots for himself.

Cuban has stated that the team needs another playmaker. Was Brunson’s failure to perform a quirk of the Clippers matchup, or is he too small/not good enough for starter minutes in the playoffs as a whole?

BOBAN. Bobi earned a lot of DNP-CDs during the season, and was suddenly a featured center in the playoffs. He brought some “easy” offense and a surprise look for the Clippers. However, the chemistry between him and the rest of the team was lacking. The Mavs committed numerous turnovers trying to force the ball into him, as passes were off-target, or Bobi couldn’t hold on to the ball.

Could Boban’s heavy usage in the playoffs have been foreseen, and the team sharpened up that look? Or could the passing/retaining skills have been a matter of focus?

DEFENDERS. There were six bigs on the rosters, and all played. Five played in all or most games. Why was there so little rim protection? That seems inexcusable. The perimeter defense was little better, or was missing altogether with the heavy use of the zone.

Last summer, the Mavs touted their defensive improvements. Gave up Curry for Richardson, who was benched and barely played. Selected a defensive prospect as their first-round draft pick. Green did not play much in the season, and no competitive minutes in the playoffs (not saying he should have, just noting he didn't). James Johnson was hyped as the enforcer. Wes Iwundu as a defensive addition. Neither was on the roster, both having turned into Redick, who was not expected to help defensively, and in fact was unable to play in the series.

OVERALL. This critique is meant to be a search for deeper knowledge, and not an empty rota of complaints. The Clippers were a more talented and deeper team, and were strongly favored. It’s not surprising that they advanced. What I find disturbing is the strange way it happened, with the postseason seeming to bear little relationship to the regular season. In a way, maybe that’s a compliment to Carlisle for having the boldness to go in an entirely different direction. But I’m not convinced that’s the end of the story.

How is it that so many of the major players descended into near-unplayable status in the playoffs? Were they used incorrectly? If they just weren’t good enough, to the point that Bobi and Burke were trusted above them, is that something that wasn’t obvious until Game 3 in the postseason? If it wasn’t foreseen, why not? Etc. The partial explanations we have heard for this wholesale disintegration from official and semi-official sources have been unsatisfying, imo.

Maybe these questions are just some of those mysteries of the universe that will never be solved.

(06-10-2021, 06:01 PM)mavsluvr Wrote: [ -> ]How is it that so many of the major players descended into near-unplayable status in the playoffs? Were they used incorrectly? If they just weren’t good enough, to the point that Bobi and Burke were trusted above them, is that something that wasn’t obvious until Game 3 in the postseason? If it wasn’t foreseen, why not? Etc. The partial explanations we have heard for this wholesale disintegration from official and semi-official sources have been unsatisfying, imo.

The only Mavs players who I personally think underachieved in the series were Kleber and Brunson. Everyone else played about how I expected except Luka, who continues to redefine "wow."

For Kleber, I think it's probably mostly the thing Carlisle has been telling anyone who will listen about how he has had a surprising amount of nagging injuries during a year that followed next to no off-season, right after a year during which he played more games than anyone else in the NBA. At least, that's my hope, because if he's already declining physically, that would be depressing. He's an important piece here, whether starting or coming off the bench.

Brunson is harder to call, imo. He seemed too small for this series, and the Clippers' wings are certainly quite long, athletic and experienced. However, so were Miami's, back in the day, and Barea tore them to shreds. Is it just a matter of time, as Brunson learns the tricks of surviving playoff defense as a waterbug, or is he ALSO too SLOW (in addition to being too small) to ever compensate? I'm a little scared of the answer, but I sure don't want to overreact to one series after the season that kid just had. We were all so hopeful about him just three weeks ago.

(06-10-2021, 06:39 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]The only Mavs players who I personally think underachieved in the series were Kleber and Brunson. Everyone else played about how I expected except Luka, who continues to redefine "wow."

For Kleber, I think it's probably mostly the thing Carlisle has been telling anyone who will listen about how he has had a surprising amount of nagging injuries during a year that followed next to no off-season, right after a year during which he played more games than anyone else in the NBA. At least, that's my hope, because if he's already declining physically, that would be depressing. He's an important piece here, whether starting or coming off the bench.

Brunson is harder to call, imo. He seemed too small for this series, and the Clippers' wings are certainly quite long, athletic and experienced. However, so were Miami's, back in the day, and Barea tore them to shreds. Is it just a matter of time, as Brunson learns the tricks of surviving playoff defense as a waterbug, or is he ALSO too SLOW (in addition to being too small) to ever compensate? I'm a little scared of the answer, but I sure don't want to overreact to one series after the season that kid just had. We were all so hopeful about him just three weeks ago.

Thanks for the observations.

I am hoping the Maxi disappointment was just due to temporary injury, as you suppose. I did think his fear of shooting was notable and not characteristic of his behavior during the season. Maybe that was a matter of legs, too.

I had expressed reservations about the ability to use Brunson in the playoffs pretty much all season, due mostly to his size and good-but-not-great skills. I don't at all object to him as a bench player, or even as a sometime starter during the season. But I think you need someone bigger/faster who you can rely on in the playoffs -- maybe another starter who can overlap with Luka. I hope to be wrong -- would love to see Brunson succeed in however big a role he wants.

I am a little surprised to hear you don't think KP underachieved. Is that because you think he did so well (as Carlisle/Cuban maintained), or because you had low expectations going in? I didn't think he would get back to Bubble KP, but I didn't foresee that he would be taken out of the action altogether. Maybe that's on me.

Anyway, good thoughts to chew on.

My first thought is that many playoff series bring both under performing and unplayable players. We rendered Zubots and Pat Bev to that status. These things always are hard to overcome yet sometimes the same players rise up in the very next series.

The Clippers have a large variety of experienced and youthful depth. We don’t but we will need to to avoid playoff teams from killing our bench.

Our perimeter players like Klebur, DFS, KP, etc need to become much more of an offensive threat when the defense runs them off the 3. Brunson and THJ are threats to go to the basket or to step in and hit pull ups and floater. We need more guys who do far more to punish aggressive perimeter defense. Some of our guys might be able to develop those skills after being beaten in this playoff.

(06-10-2021, 07:01 PM)mavsluvr Wrote: [ -> ]or because you had low expectations going in

I saw very little difference in the way Porzingis played during this series and the way he looked for 98% of the season. In fact, his game 2 performance was about three times better than I expected. I have come to expect the worst from KP (obvs), but will start next season with an open mind if he's still here, hoping actually being healthy though an off-season and preparing for a season helped.

(06-10-2021, 07:04 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]

I saw very little difference in the way Porzingis played during this series and the way he looked for 98% of the season. In fact, his game 2 performance was about three times better than I expected. I have come to expect the worst from KP (obvs), but will start next season with an open mind if he's still here, hoping actually being healthy though an off-season and preparing for a season helped.

LOL, fair enough

I think the basic takeaway is that the roster outside of Luka (and probably DFS, in his role and not expecting more) is ass and needs to be replaced.

Obviously, we're going to take a big step back if we bring in all new faces next year, as they acclimate and gel, so it's probably best to replace about half the roster this offseason and then improve incrementally roster-wise.

(06-10-2021, 07:01 PM)mavsluvr Wrote: [ -> ]I had expressed reservations about the ability to use Brunson in the playoffs pretty much all season, due mostly to his size and good-but-not-great skills. I don't at all object to him as a bench player, or even as a sometime starter during the season. But I think you need someone bigger/faster who you can rely on in the playoffs -- maybe another starter who can overlap with Luka. I hope to be wrong -- would love to see Brunson succeed in however big a role he wants.

I think you might be right about all of the above, but could also see the kid figuring some things out and looking way better in 2-3 years. Huge mystery, and I hope the Mavs guess the right ending. If he's a dead end, NOW is the time to move him, while his value is high.

Having said that, I think the biggest mistake of the series Carlisle made was to go away from Brunson and ride Burke instead during game 7. It wouldn't have bothered me if he tried it in any of the other games (Brunson had a few stinkers) but I just feel like in a game 7 you dance with the one who brung ya.

Brunson: First playoffs ever. Whistles treated him accordingly. Hard to make a pass with fellas on your arms. How do you respond to an over-aggressive, reaching defense? Take it to the hole. Brunson did that just fine. (Can you even remember how JJB performed in his first playoff series?) At the other end of the court, Luka had run off the court all the smalls that Jalen would have competently defended. By this time next year, he’ll have changed your mind.

Kleber: Tasked with guarding the fellow who might be the best playoff performer of all time, Kleber came up short. How disappointing.

Boban: When Luka forced em to sit their bigs, the counter move was, obviously, to post em up inside. I’m not a KP/DP hater like many on this board. But I do admit neither is strong enough in the post to make the Clips pay for sitting their bigs. So, enter Boban.

Role Players: They were good, just not good enough. Not sure how surprised we should be that the 3-point shot was volatile. That’s kind of how 3s go, eh? One advantage of having a top record and a high seed is that you’re role players tend to get a little more respect from the refs. Supposed to get that at home too. Didn’t get it this year. Hadn’t earned it perhaps.

Richardson: It just didn’t work. Don’t know why. My guess is they committed to him or his agent to give it a hard, patient try. Or maybe it’s just that they knew they needed it to work, so that’s why they kept trying. Either way, I respect the commitment and the willingness to, finally, give up. Also admire the ability of all involved to keep it classy—at least in public. No eating hot dogs during the game. No snarky comments to the press. Wish JR the best wherever he is next season.

(06-10-2021, 07:17 PM)Scott41theMavs Wrote: [ -> ]I think the basic takeaway is that the roster outside of Luka (and probably DFS, in his role and not expecting more) is ass and needs to be replaced.

Nah, man. They're not ass. Some played well, some didn't. Some are problems, some are solutions. Some will switch from problem to solution if other problems are removed. Some will learn from this and grow.

The Clippers are GOOD. We need to keep reminding ourselves of that. This is going to take time, tbh, and if anything we should be HAPPY that it looks like Lebron's career is finally starting to wind down. CP3 can't keep the Suns at this level forever, either.

It's like waiting in line at six flags.

(06-10-2021, 06:01 PM)mavsluvr Wrote: [ -> ]This was one of the oddest of series. Stalwarts of the season vanished. The team featured some of its bit players. The team performed better than expected, then seemed to fold like a cheap tent. What happened, and couldn’t it have been foreseen, at the coaching and/or roster construction levels?

Good food for Mavs thought ML. Deserves consideration after a hard fought season. I'll bite.

Quote:LUKA. Was terrific, easily one of the best players in the postseason. But wore down with his extra minutes. Gasping for breath in fourth quarters, he was unable to consistently deliver in the games’ closing minutes. It was clear why they couldn’t just shorten his minutes — they hemorrhaged points with every second he was off the floor.

Was this a problem with Luka not taking care of his body? The Mavs failing to have an adequate backup? (See Brunson). Another problem?

1) Luka's body clearly has room for improvement. He's a long way from the "cut" he could achieve and that's something very achievable for he and the coaches.

Mostly though in the playoffs it was clear he didn't have enough Star level help. In fact he had no star level help. In one game he was criticized for playing too much hero ball, then the next he was criticized for passing too much even though he was being double and triple teamed.

By Game 7 he had a big scoring game and he's help, KP and THJ got a good number looks up. They cratered from the 3 point line while the opponent good looks and 20-10 3 point advantage for 30 insurmountable points of difference. If Luka's teammates shot better and Mavs pull out the series, this whole thread discussion perspective is different.

No mystery at all there. The main Luka problem is not at all about Luka.  Doncic has some good players around him, but no All Star level support. Was anyone even in consideration for an All Star berth outside of Doncic.

Quote:PORZINGIS. Counted on to be the second star, KP was not necessarily that even in the regular season, but he disappeared in the playoffs. Serving as a decoy has value, certainly, and we saw that in some of the games. But taking KP out of the offense and into the corner meant there was a 20-point, 10-rebound hole in what one would expect a second option to contribute. Also, very little rim protection.

Very disappointing. Can he still serve as a force offensively? Something wrong with his role? Is he too limited in moving around to defend any more? Ultra-tall guys (over 7’1”) generally don’t prove durable in the NBA — is KP past his sell-by date?

This one might fit your topic line of imponderable as its a lot harder to quantify.

Quote:Imponderable - definition is - not ponderable : incapable of being weighed or evaluated with exactness.

Hard to say here but my 2 cents is that Carlisle and Kristaps have to settle on a role that best maximizes his advantages. Is being Ultra tall and athletic with skill still an advantage in the NBA? I think it can be.
1) KP has to shoot better, work on his shot over the offseason. Outside 1st at the 3 point line he needs to be a 40% ish guy at volume and I have to believe he can refine at least a single shot or so in the paint and midrange.
He shoots the Tim Duncan fundamental bank for example. If he worked hard enough to be consistent with it then its a real weapon in the short and midrange. Look at Embiid in the midrange. Why couldn't KP do that. No one can really bother it.

2) I thought Boban with KP was solid, even better than solid, and gave the Clippers the most problems. Carlisle let them off the Hook because he didn't go with that when the games were really on the line. He want back to his more standard rotations which I don't have a problem with except that they are not elite. The shooters are streaky, not elite, not as good as the Clippers as we saw.

A strong big skilled inside oriented Center worked better than small ball wings surrounding KP or KP at 5 with a meh PF next to him. KP at 5 doesn't look like he's up for the intense physical challenge of constantly holding the boards and challenging consistently at the rim. With a big 5 KP can come in now and then using his length as the secondary help.

That said, I get that Coach wants to play small, like all the coaches do. Problem is are you going to have the best talent playing the same style as the top opponents? Will your wings be better man for man than the elite wings of the top teams?
If not then counter matching BIG talent that is undervalued may be the Mavs best bet.

Quote:RICHARDSON. A guy who started most of the season’s games was first benched and then reduced to a cameo role, being a negative on the court, prone to turnovers and missed shots.

Was this first noticed at the end of the season? Was he dealing with an undisclosed injury? How did he fall off the face of the earth like that?

Don't know about the injuries. It may just be that JR is at best an above replacement level wing, which may not be bad in your rotation at all IF the stars are there. In Miami he looked like maybe he might be more. In Philly he had stars to play off and he looked solid, not really great. That may be where he lands. solid, not great but a lot better if you have your 1st 2nd and 3rd options in performing.

Quote:MAXI. Initially tasked with guarding Kawhi, he was far from a stopper, and was eventually mostly replaced. Offensively, he seemed afraid of the moment, reluctant to take open shots. Considered one of the pillars of the team, he didn’t make the hoped-for impact.

Kleber was fighting injuries, which was evidently a lingering thing. Rick Carlisle: He was battling something all season long. One week it was one thing. The next week was another thing. It was always something.

Was this vanishing performance accounted for by playing hurt? Or, after two postseasons of not showing up, is the stage just too big for him? Should they have foreseen this, and given Kawhi some different looks earlier?

Kleber having a tough year, from Covid on top of whatever else is undisclosed had a huge impact on the Mavs season coming up short of some expectations and on Luka having too much load.
He has looked like a real up and coming bright spot at times but whatever the issues are Coach strongly alluded to Huh

here's to hoping he gets full healthy and back on stride.

Quote:BRUNSON. Jalen was one of the best offensive players in the season, but was more or less played off the floor in the postseason. This seems like one that could have been predicted. Miniature point guards have not generally fared well in terms of making deep runs in the playoffs. The Clippers’ long, rangy players and extreme depth eclipsed him, and at best, he managed to create a few shots for himself.

Cuban has stated that the team needs another playmaker. Was Brunson’s failure to perform a quirk of the Clippers matchup, or is he too small/not good enough for starter minutes in the playoffs as a whole?

Brunson has been good, really good imo for all that could be expected. Yeah he's not your star. He's small so he needs some protection out there from bigs. The Clips were definitely a tough matchup with their big athletic wing version of 'small ball' still being too big unless the other positions and provide cover for Jalen.

Mark Jackson comments that "you don't want to have to ask your backup singers to sing lead". Brunson did so well as a backup singer that maybe people started expected him to be lead, to play at an All star level against All stars. Brunson looks good enough to be exceptional with the right support around him.

Quote:BOBAN. Bobi earned a lot of DNP-CDs during the season, and was suddenly a featured center in the playoffs. He brought some “easy” offense and a surprise look for the Clippers. However, the chemistry between him and the rest of the team was lacking. The Mavs committed numerous turnovers trying to force the ball into him, as passes were off-target, or Bobi couldn’t hold on to the ball.

Could Boban’s heavy usage in the playoffs have been foreseen, and the team sharpened up that look? Or could the passing/retaining skills have been a matter of focus?

That's my guy. I maintain that he's potentially a much bigger player into the success of the Mavs or some team if they can hurry up and use him before he really hits his big man expiration date.

Yeah, it was really odd to suddenly in the hottest fire of the playoffs start really using Boban more the way IMO he should have been used all season. Agree with you the chemistry was lacking which makes it all the more amazing how well the team performed, the general way they held their own for the most part or even better won the +/- during the BIG KP/Boban runs.

Did they even run this at all during the season? I don't recall seeing it. So yeah, if they ran it as a consistent look they go to no doubt the difficulties making the passes into the paint and the turnovers would be greatly decreased. I thought Boban really helped free up KP. Yes you're vulnerable to great shooting in the PnR and the 3 but I'm not at all seeing that the Mavs were any worse defensively than they were when they did not play the big lineups.

The biggest killer runs from the Clippers as I recall came when the JUMBO rotation was NOT on the floor including the 3 point eruptions that killed the Mavs in game 6 and 7. None of it really had anything to do with slow BIGS.
The standard rotation guys got cooked on defense but the killer is they also went cold at the worst time on offense, which smart use of the BIG lineups could have avoided.

Quote:Maybe these questions are just some of those mysteries of the universe that will never be solved.

(06-10-2021, 06:01 PM)mavsluvr Wrote: [ -> ]How is it that so many of the major players descended into near-unplayable status in the playoffs?

Matchups.

Doncic played two of the Clippers most important players off the floor, Beverly and Zubac. And Lue didn't even try to play Cousins. Kennard only got run after the Clippers made adjustments, but he wouldn't have played at all if they weren't forced to go small. Mann and Rondo barely played.

Bottom line the supposed deep, talented Clippers were reduced to three two-way forwards - Kawhi, George, Batum - who each played 40 MIN; plus another two-way forward - Morris - who played 30+ MIN; and a big scoring guard - Jackson - who got hot.

What's crazy and a bit counterintuitive is the Mavs forced the Clippers to go small but that had the unfortunate side effect of rendering many of Dallas' best players unplayable too.

KP couldn't guard the paint so Carlisle had to go big with Boban, WCS and a bit of Powell. That forced KP to forward who took Kleber's minutes.

Then you had three Mavs who needed 40+ MIN
- DFS, who Carlisle couldn't take off the floor.
- THJ, because at least he had balls.
- Of course Luka

In the end I certainly don't think Brunson, Kleber or JRich played great, but I don't think the loss is an indictment on them at all. It was all just matchups and the combined ripple effect of Luka dominating Beverly & Zubac and KP not being able to defend the rim.

(06-10-2021, 07:20 PM)Jommybone Wrote: [ -> ]Richardson: It just didn’t work. Don’t know why. My guess is they committed to him or his agent to give it a hard, patient try. Or maybe it’s just that they knew they needed it to work, so that’s why they kept trying. Either way, I respect the commitment and the willingness to, finally, give up. Also admire the ability of all involved to keep it classy—at least in public. No eating hot dogs during the game. No snarky comments to the press. Wish JR the best wherever he is next season.

I think it's clear that the Mavs weren't great shakes with their talent evaluation (or, at least, the coach's integration of that talent) two years in a row (Delon, and now JRich) in finding a running mate for Luka.

This off-season, it's go big (ahem, BROGDON) or go home.

(06-10-2021, 07:37 PM)Scott41theMavs Wrote: [ -> ]I think it's clear that the Mavs weren't great shakes with their talent evaluation (or, at least, the coach's integration of that talent) two years in a row (Delon, and now JRich) in finding a running mate for Luka.

Agreed. It's crystal clear that the decision makers, Carlisle included, had a specific vision for a type of player they want sharing the back-court with Luka. Or, if you believe they wanted Kemba Walker, which I do, the Wright/Richardson type was at least one of a few ways they thought they could go with the guard rotation.

I think they are just as dismayed by the way both situations crumbled as we are. Hopefully, they are learning and adapting. The idea that they'll triple down on that and somehow miss a third time scares me to death. Like, which guy will we get excited about next year, and how long before old, faithful THJ replaces HIM?

(06-10-2021, 07:20 PM)Jommybone Wrote: [ -> ]Brunson: First playoffs ever. Whistles treated him accordingly. Hard to make a pass with fellas on your arms. How do you respond to an over-aggressive, reaching defense? Take it to the hole. Brunson did that just fine. (Can you even remember how JJB performed in his first playoff series?) At the other end of the court, Luka had run off the court all the smalls that Jalen would have competently defended. By this time next year, he’ll have changed your mind.

I hope he does. I take it from this answer that you disagree with Cuban that we need a bigger playmaker, and think they should just stick with Jalen?

Kleber: Tasked with guarding the fellow who might be the best playoff performer of all time, Kleber came up short. How disappointing.

So, is your position that the team could not have been expected to successfully defend the best playoff performers? Even if we agree it was not Maxi's fault, should any different approach be tried going forward?

Boban: When Luka forced em to sit their bigs, the counter move was, obviously, to post em up inside. I’m not a KP/DP hater like many on this board. But I do admit neither is strong enough in the post to make the Clips pay for sitting their bigs. So, enter Boban.

Should KP/DP have muscled up? Should the lack of strong front court players have been recognized, and the Boban strategy have been polished?

Role Players: They were good, just not good enough. Not sure how surprised we should be that the 3-point shot was volatile. That’s kind of how 3s go, eh? One advantage of having a top record and a high seed is that you’re role players tend to get a little more respect from the refs. Supposed to get that at home too. Didn’t get it this year. Hadn’t earned it perhaps.

It is your position that the role players underperformed because of the refs?

Richardson: It just didn’t work. Don’t know why. My guess is they committed to him or his agent to give it a hard, patient try. Or maybe it’s just that they knew they needed it to work, so that’s why they kept trying. Either way, I respect the commitment and the willingness to, finally, give up. Also admire the ability of all involved to keep it classy—at least in public. No eating hot dogs during the game. No snarky comments to the press. Wish JR the best wherever he is next season.

I have listened to and absorbed (and even offered) the excuses. I don't find them hard to believe, on an individual basis. It is the whole team and the strategies they had worked on all season toppling like a house of cards that I found unsettling. I don't even care about pointing fingers, except to the extent that it gives us useful information about how to proceed now.

I don't think of myself as much of a knee-jerker. But this series and its component crazy quilt of dysfunctions seemed to shout at me, "This isn't working!" I waited a few days before posting, so as to let the emotions die down a little. But, even on reflection, it still seems to point to a number of issues at the front office, coaching, and individual player levels that badly need addressing.

But maybe, as you seem to posit, it was just an unlikely perfect storm of unfortunate circumstances that will probably never happen again. I hope so.

(06-10-2021, 07:31 PM)vfromlmf Wrote: [ -> ]Bottom line the supposed deep, talented Clippers were reduced to three two-way forwards - Kawhi, George, Batum - who each played 40 MIN; plus another two-way forward - Morris - who played 30+ MIN; and a big scoring guard - Jackson - who got hot.

Well said! Makes me wonder how many NBA teams have a lineup of wings with the ability to do what the Clips did. Without that, Luka averages 45/game and Mavs move on.

(06-10-2021, 07:48 PM)Jommybone Wrote: [ -> ]Well said! Makes me wonder how many NBA teams have a lineup of wings with the ability to do what the Clips did. Without that, Luka averages 45/game and Mavs move on.

In one of the other threads, everyone says we would lose to all of the other Western Conference playoff teams.

Seems to me that's either an anal-expulsive swipe at the Clitts, or at our Mavs, rather than reality. But in any event, it's a testament to Luka's greatness, not to anything else great about the team as a whole. Except maybe the coaching (ducks).

(06-10-2021, 07:03 PM)ReunionMav Wrote: [ -> ]My first thought is that many playoff series bring both under performing and unplayable players. We rendered Zubots and Pat Bev to that status. These things always are hard to overcome yet sometimes the same players rise up in the very next series.

Indeed. Who can ever forget the great JJ Barea and his over performance against Miami!

That said, I would expect a player or two to match up particularly well or badly in any given series. It is the (forced) general abandonment of the strategies and a sizable number of the players who have been fundamental to the season that I don't think you necessarily expect in a playoff run. Having to resort to players/tactics that weren't deemed worthy of relying on in the season. Not saying they shouldn't have gone to that, at all. But the necessity of it may have caught them by surprise. If so, why is that? If not, could it be better planned for, during/before the coming season?

The Clippers have a large variety of experienced and youthful depth. We don’t but we will need to to avoid playoff teams from killing our bench.

Yes, the failure of the non-Luka units was one of the most gut-punching things.

Our perimeter players like Klebur, DFS, KP, etc need to become much more of an offensive threat when the defense runs them off the 3. Brunson and THJ are threats to go to the basket or to step in and hit pull ups and floater. We need more guys who do far more to punish aggressive perimeter defense. Some of our guys might be able to develop those skills after being beaten in this playoff.

Most of them have these skills, to one extent or another. But it often looked more like a pick up game than a coordinated, well-oiled-machine attack. Of course, those skills could be honed, as you suggest.

(06-10-2021, 07:28 PM)Dahlsim Wrote: [ -> ]Good food for Mavs thought ML. Deserves consideration after a hard fought season. I'll bite.

1) Luka's body clearly has room for improvement. He's a long way from the "cut" he could achieve and that's something very achievable for he and the coaches.

Mostly though in the playoffs it was clear he didn't have enough Star level help. In fact he had no star level help. In one game he was criticized for playing too much hero ball, then the next he was criticized for passing too much even though he was being double and triple teamed.

By Game 7 he had a big scoring game and he's help, KP and THJ got a good number looks up. They cratered from the 3 point line while the opponent good looks and 20-10 3 point advantage for 30 insurmountable points of difference. If Luka's teammates shot better and Mavs pull out the series, this whole thread discussion perspective is different.

No mystery at all there. The main Luka problem is not at all about Luka.  Doncic has some good players around him, but no All Star level support. Was anyone even in consideration for an All Star berth outside of Doncic.

This one might fit your topic line of imponderable as its a lot harder to quantify.

Hard to say here but my 2 cents is that Carlisle and Kristaps have to settle on a role that best maximizes his advantages. Is being Ultra tall and athletic with skill still an advantage in the NBA? I think it can be.
1) KP has to shoot better, work on his shot over the offseason. Outside 1st at the 3 point line he needs to be a 40% ish guy at volume and I have to believe he can refine at least a single shot or so in the paint and midrange.
He shoots the Tim Duncan fundamental bank for example. If he worked hard enough to be consistent with it then its a real weapon in the short and midrange. Look at Embiid in the midrange. Why couldn't KP do that. No one can really bother it.

2) I thought Boban with KP was solid, even better than solid, and gave the Clippers the most problems. Carlisle let them off the Hook because he didn't go with that when the games were really on the line. He want back to his more standard rotations which I don't have a problem with except that they are not elite. The shooters are streaky, not elite, not as good as the Clippers as we saw.

A strong big skilled inside oriented Center worked better than small ball wings surrounding KP or KP at 5 with a meh PF next to him. KP at 5 doesn't look like he's up for the intense physical challenge of constantly holding the boards and challenging consistently at the rim. With a big 5 KP can come in now and then using his length as the secondary help.

That said, I get that Coach wants to play small, like all the coaches do. Problem is are you going to have the best talent playing the same style as the top opponents? Will your wings be better man for man than the elite wings of the top teams?
If not then counter matching BIG talent that is undervalued may be the Mavs best bet.

Don't know about the injuries. It may just be that JR is at best an above replacement level wing, which may not be bad in your rotation at all IF the stars are there. In Miami he looked like maybe he might be more. In Philly he had stars to play off and he looked solid, not really great. That may be where he lands. solid, not great but a lot better if you have your 1st 2nd and 3rd options in performing.

Kleber having a tough year, from Covid on top of whatever else is undisclosed had a huge impact on the Mavs season coming up short of some expectations and on Luka having too much load.
He has looked like a real up and coming bright spot at times but whatever the issues are Coach strongly alluded to here's to hoping he gets full healthy and back on stride.

Brunson has been good, really good imo for all that could be expected. Yeah he's not your star. He's small so he needs some protection out there from bigs. The Clips were definitely a tough matchup with their big athletic wing version of 'small ball' still being too big unless the other positions and provide cover for Jalen.

Mark Jackson comments that "you don't want to have to ask your backup singers to sing lead". Brunson did so well as a backup singer that maybe people started expected him to be lead, to play at an All star level against All stars. Brunson looks good enough to be exceptional with the right support around him.

That's my guy. I maintain that he's potentially a much bigger player into the success of the Mavs or some team if they can hurry up and use him before he really hits his big man expiration date.

Yeah, it was really odd to suddenly in the hottest fire of the playoffs start really using Boban more the way IMO he should have been used all season. Agree with you the chemistry was lacking which makes it all the more amazing how well the team performed, the general way they held their own for the most part or even better won the +/- during the BIG KP/Boban runs.

Did they even run this at all during the season? I don't recall seeing it. So yeah, if they ran it as a consistent look they go to no doubt the difficulties making the passes into the paint and the turnovers would be greatly decreased. I thought Boban really helped free up KP. Yes you're vulnerable to great shooting in the PnR and the 3 but I'm not at all seeing that the Mavs were any worse defensively than they were when they did not play the big lineups.

The biggest killer runs from the Clippers as I recall came when the JUMBO rotation was NOT on the floor including the 3 point eruptions that killed the Mavs in game 6 and 7. None of it really had anything to do with slow BIGS.
The standard rotation guys got cooked on defense but the killer is they also went cold at the worst time on offense, which smart use of the BIG lineups could have avoided.

Thanks for these insightful and well-considered comments, Dahl. Will address them one by one over the next day or two.

Here’s the way I see it. For three games, Luka played at a historic level and got just enough help to get the wins. Luka played hurt for most of two games, and the Mavs had no chance. In the two remaining games, Kawhi had one epic performance (helped by a rare bad coaching night from Carlisle) and then the Clippers just played a great game 7 at home. They would have beaten any NBA team in that game. That was that. If not for the Luka injury or if Carlisle plays a more aggressive defense against Kawhi in the 4th quarter of game six, the Mavs may well have won the series. Some of the variation in player performance was probably just statistical noise, though the ridiculous roster churn to acquire defense that produced almost no significant on court playoff minutes constitutes a major front office blunder or series of blunders. Also, Zinger has struggles that go beyond this one series.

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