2020-2021 ROSTER TALK: Archived

[ItsGoTime]

We need a legit #2 and #3. There is no point to signing Portis and Batum right now. Those are finishing moves. They are players for teams, who have an established big three. Our best case is that we have a #1 in Luka and a #3 in Porzingis (on a max contract with injury risks always looming). All our focus should be on getting the #2 immediately, or making moves that get us closer to a #2 at the next TDL/summer, which means asset acquisition.

Right now Luka and DFS are the only fixed spots and even next summer, they only account for $42M in total salaries. Everybody else besides Porzingis becomes an expiring contract next summer or is on a rookie deal. So there is enough breathing space under the cap to make major moves. Of course that flexibility goes out of the window, if we start handing out 48/4 to players like Portis and Batum, plus 80/4 to Norman Powell.

I don't agree with the team and situation we are in right now that we need a #2 and #3. We need to walk before we can run. That means we need 5 starters which is what I've been hoping we would do for at least 2 years now. We have 2-3 right now with Luka, KP and DFS who could be a starter or bench player. 

I proposed Jackson, Batum and Portis all as MLE type targets for other teams that if we offer just over that, it takes many teams out of the running for them. That is more money than we would have with all the usual suspects outgoing, so one of them has to be a SnT or we need to find some $2-4M more. 

Honestly, there are so many MLE target names in this year's FA, it doesn't have to be these specific 3 names. I put a list out there quite a few pages back of 14 names of FA players that I wanted 3-5 of based on contract sizes. Found the list:

I think a nice upgraded offseason would be getting 3-5 of the following players with minimal outgoing from the current squad (not in order):

OPJ
Batum
PJ Tucker
RJack
Korkmaz
Holmes
Caruso
THT
McConnell
Theis
Portis
Snell
Graham
JaMychal
Adding to this list: THJ (at a $12-14M starting contract)

I think that is a list of players that most of them are upgrades to the players we have on roster now. Some of them are side grades with better fitting skillsets. Not all of them are MLE type targets (some more, some less), but most of them are which is why I think we can get 3-5 of them with the money we would have. Mix and match based on the salary they require and lose a few of our guys based on the incoming skillsets.

Would love to SnT for some of them with some of the guys we have on roster. JRich, Powell and Burke are top of the list for outgoing in a SnT. Depending on what is incoming, the rest of the roster is available sans Luka and KP IMO. Once we start looking at trades though, we don't have to stick to this list, that list becomes all teams' better for us than you players.

[omahen]

Honestly, there are so many MLE target names in this year's FA, it doesn't have to be these specific 3 names.

Looking at your list, the following are extremely suspect when reffering to them as starters. I don't believe they are better suited to be a starter than (for example) Kleber or THJ:
- Korkmaz
- THT (not yet)
- McConnell (not a starter next to Doncic - back up)
- Portis
- Snell (not even close to starter)
- JaMychal
- Tucker (will be even older and already non existing on offense, sooner or later his defense will not be good enough anymore)

[ItsGoTime]

Looking at your list, the following are extremely suspect when reffering to them as starters. I don't believe they are better suited to be a starter than (for example) Kleber or THJ:
- Korkmaz - I think next to Luka, if his defense is as I've heard is advertised he's at least a DFS quality type starter similar to Satoransky.
- THT (not yet) - Might be true, his contract sounds like it's gonna be at a starter level though, so you go with him and hope he gets there during the year.
- McConnell (not a starter next to Doncic - back up) - Yep, he's the JB replacement if we need to use JB in a SnT. Side grade with a different skillset and isn't a MLE level target.
- Portis - I think I disagree here, I think he is a lower minute starter with Maxi behind him. He gets to take on the bruisers for KP, but can play the game similar to how we envision JCollins would here, just not at the same level.
- Snell (not even close to starter) - For sure, but he is a 2 way bench player that helps to ease the hit we take from letting THJ go, if it comes to that. Also not a MLE target.
- JaMychal - Probably true, I'd get him for under the MLE and see what he does with his teammates and go from there. Where Portis is a poor mans Collins, Green is a poor mans Portis in my mind.
- Tucker (will be even older and already non existing on offense, sooner or later his defense will not be good enough anymore) - Another lower minute starter with Maxi behind him filling in the same role Portis and Green does. I think he's a slightly under MLE target.
- OPJ - He is a starter if he can show closer to his Was days, which is highly unlikely, but he's a step in the 2 way bench direction for sure in my mind and a wing that this roster desperately needs. Also possibly not as high as a MLE target, I just don't know.
- Caruso - Similar to McConnell.
- Theis - Could be a low minute starter, might be an upgraded bench player. Certainly a better C than any of the guys he would be taking the place of. Might not quite be MLE level either.

Some of those are the side-grades I was talking about. I added some to your list.

[Razzmatazz_Hopskidillydoo]

Not MLE but, if the Mavs want a legit starting SG, they need to look at Fournier.

I'm not saying THJ isn't a legit starting SG, but the Mavs requirement of a secondary playmaker tells us they need a guard who can play next to Luka and not really a Luka substitute at PG. 

Now Evan isn't a real playmaker. But he can put the ball on the floor and score unassisted, he is also a ball mover who knows when and where to pass, all this while matching THJ's ability to get open and shoot it from deep. 

Fournier's a gunner who can do other things, and these small things that Evan can do, I don't see them as small upgrades over what the Mavs get with THJ.

Now if the Mavs can squeeze-in Holmes too....

[mvossman]

Gonna go back to my original offseason plan. Reggie Jackson + John Collins. The best part of this plan is both guys are extremely gettable... Atlanta probably won't be able to pay Collins max, and the Clippers literally can't pay Reggie Jackson as much as he can get elsewhere. This plan also doesn't require lots of improbably trades.

Current cap space plus Maxi and Burke's contracts outgoing would get us to about $44 million in space. I think that's enough for both guys. Reggie Jackson would basically be THJ plus what we expected of JRich combined into one player. Collins is like Maxi plus Powell combined into a better player.

We don't need to trade KP to add both of these guys, although if we could do a KP for Adams trade that would give us space to also re-sign THJ.

That's not a bad plan, but calling Reggie Jackson THJ plus our hopes for JRich is a stretch.  He has averaged mid 20s in minutes the last two years, and 11 points a game.  He is also not a stopper on defense.  He would be a reasonable stop gap for a year or two as a starting secondary play maker, but I would not read too much into one playoff run.

I don't see Atlanta taking on Burke (why would they) and they may not even want Maxi (or we may not have to give him up).  I would much rather try to dump Powell (and spend an asset doing it) as Maxi is a much better fit with both KP and Collins.  If you sign Collins and dump Powell, you would have 17 left.  If they have to send Maxi in that trade, you have 14 left without dumping Powell, and that should be plenty to sign Jackson.

[ItsGoTime]

Fournier's a gunner who can do other things, and these small things that Evan can do, I don't see them as small upgrades over what the Mavs get with THJ.

Now if the Mavs can squeeze-in Holmes too....

I see him as an upgrade to THJ too, and in ways that would really help Luka and the offense. However, I don't see him as an upgrade on defense which is another need from that position. That position asks for a ton because of Luka. 

On that note, I wonder if JB and Powell for SnT Fournier would be acceptable from Bos, then we would have plenty of money to go after Holmes (not that I would want to use up all that extra money, which we could use to go after Caruso/McConnell/Korkmaz to replace JB). Those two would certainly be upgrades to our roster as long as JRich opts out which I think is unlikely.

[cow]

You said "it helps that he got to play against our perimeter defense" but he also did the same thing to other teams. I'm also not sure what makes LAC uniquely different from Dallas considering how desperately we need any kind of secondary ballhandler.

"It helps" doesn't equate to totality.  Do me a favor and speak for yourself and don't put words in my mouth.

[mvossman]

We need a legit #2 and #3. There is no point to signing Portis and Batum right now. Those are finishing moves. They are players for teams, who have an established big three. Our best case is that we have a #1 in Luka and a #3 in Porzingis (on a max contract with injury risks always looming). All our focus should be on getting the #2 immediately, or making moves that get us closer to a #2 at the next TDL/summer, which means asset acquisition.

Right now Luka and DFS are the only fixed spots and even next summer, they only account for $42M in total salaries. Everybody else besides Porzingis becomes an expiring contract next summer or is on a rookie deal. So there is enough breathing space under the cap to make major moves. Of course that flexibility goes out of the window, if we start handing out 48/4 to players like Portis and Batum, plus 80/4 to Norman Powell.

I agree that we need to focus on legit starting quality talent (and ideally a #2 or #3) as opposed to going for 3 role players, but please God don't go down the plan powder route and try to kick the can another year.  I don't want to be completely hamstrung (again!) because we are planning on "big moves" the following year.  

It will be a lot harder to operate with cap space next year due to the Luka extension.  This free agent class was suppose to be the best ever, but then went to shit with all the extensions.  Same thing could easily happen for next offseason.  The goal should simply be to maximize talent, not worry about impacting some grand plan next year that will take 10 things falling right to happen.

[Scott41theMavs]

We need a legit #2 and #3. There is no point to signing Portis and Batum right now. Those are finishing moves. They are players for teams, who have an established big three. Our best case is that we have a #1 in Luka and a #3 in Porzingis (on a max contract with injury risks always looming). All our focus should be on getting the #2 immediately, or making moves that get us closer to a #2 at the next TDL/summer, which means asset acquisition.

Right now Luka and DFS are the only fixed spots and even next summer, they only account for $42M in total salaries. Everybody else besides Porzingis becomes an expiring contract next summer or is on a rookie deal. So there is enough breathing space under the cap to make major moves. Of course that flexibility goes out of the window, if we start handing out 48/4 to players like Portis and Batum, plus 80/4 to Norman Powell.

Thing is, there are no legit #2's aside from Kawhi (whom most would think of as a #1, but isn't going to be available to play in 2021-22 anyway) available this offseason in free agency. So basically, if Kawhi won't come here (which the Mavs must know by 5pm EST 2 August 2021), if you're targeting a #2, it's in trade, now or in the future. There are, however, many potential #3's available in this class.

I think the Mavs should definitely target a few potential #3's (knowing, once again, which one is willing to sign before FA starts), but also be willing to sign other available players. The three potential contracts you're holding your nose at are actually 1) quite reasonable, 2) quite tradable for a #2 in the future. I also believe that, unlike THJ, Norman Powell at that contract you so abominate is a legit #3. 

I have moved on from the idea of Brogdon since so many have pointed out that he clashed with Kidd. He was a longshot anyway, and no reason to mortgage the farm for RC-Rondo 2.0. So I am back to my favorite move being trading KP into space, or at least for a $15 mil increase in cap room. Get your #3, stockpile assets by virtue of tradeable FA contracts this offseason, and trade for your #2 later.

[HoosierDaddyKid]

An injured crappier version of DeRozan.  Please god no!

You wipe that egg off your face yet?