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Trade & FA 2023-24: Sexton On the Market? | ORL Likes Hartenstein?
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Who won this trade?


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(05-10-2024, 04:15 PM)DallasMaverick Wrote: Who won this trade?

Seems to depend a ton on whether Mitchell plays for the Cavs in years to come. If he walks, it's a disaster. However, having a guy good enough to lead a team of comparative spares to at least one win against the uberCeltics suggests it might have been a good move.
(05-10-2024, 01:12 PM)omahen Wrote: Oh, I didn't see the main thing. He is still on the "lets trade Kyrie for Murray" train. Makes zero sense. Kyrie has been phenomenal so far and if the goal is to win now, than trading him is nonsense. If the goal would be to build the team for long term around younger guys, than it would make some sense and cash in on Irvings great season. But, it is not

It will be interesting to observe the offseason related to Irvings new deal. He will be an expiring (he has a player option after next season). Him walking for nothing would be a disaster, but locking him for huge number well into his thirties could also have significant consequences if he starts falling of a cliff. See Beal or even Lillard contracts as an example.

I think next year Kyrie will get an extension of cap% amount that he's on now for another 3-4 years. It might be an overpay. It might turn out to be a bad choice. But Kyrie has shown himself to be invaluable for the mental makeup for this team. I never, ever, EVER thought I'd write that. But its true. Kyrie is the leader and emotional control for this team. I don't care if the contract will turn out to be a hard one to move later on down the line. Further the Luka+Kyrie chemistry connection is through the roof. You have to keep that stability there. 

It also doesn't hurt that he's one of the few guys in the league that can score with the same potency that Luka can put out any night. I don't see that going away even in his mid 30s. At 35 will Kyrie be a 28ppg guy? No. But I can easily see 20-23 ppg on good efficiency. That's good enough.

https://twitter.com/MugiHoops/status/178...2611101939

I mean look at this. Gotta reward that.
14x All-Star, 12x all-NBA, 1x MVP, 1x Finals MVP, 1 NBA Championship: Dirk Nowitzki, the man, the myth, the legend.
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(05-10-2024, 03:32 PM)mvossman Wrote: I have that guy on ignore, but the most hilarious thing about that post is that he has Poku ahead of Maxi on the depth chart.  WTF?

It's not like you're the Albert Einstein of the forum, lol.

Anyway, the point of merely listing Poku ahead in the list is because Kleber can't be trusted to stay healthy. Kleber is a better player at this time, we know that. Anyway, PJ has the PF position locked up. The question I have is, can Poku be that cheap PF who can be available to play some meaningful minutes behind PJ... and who can also space the floor, since the 3 Centers listed there have no range.
(05-11-2024, 01:29 AM)RGP1981 Wrote: It's not like you're the Albert Einstein of the forum, lol.

Anyway, the point of merely listing Poku ahead in the list is because Kleber can't be trusted to stay healthy. Kleber is a better player at this time, we know that. Anyway, PJ has the PF position locked up. The question I have is, can Poku be that cheap PF who can be available to play some meaningful minutes behind PJ... and who can also space the floor, since the 3 Centers listed there have no range.

I like myself a Pokusevski, but I assume the Hornets will just keep him. He still has a non-guaranteed contract for next year.

I have my eyes on Isaac Bonga, whose basketball IQ is a bit questionable, but he can defend 1 through 5 and at 6´8 can play some point forward, too. Just got to have faith in the Lakers ability to draft great and then screw it up. Once upon a time they had Randle, Ingram, Ball, Hart, Zubac, Russell, Mo Wagner and Bonga. Traded them all away. Why should Bonga be the one guy they were right on drafting and wrong on dumping. Tongue He´s still only 24 years old. While the Exum play-off experience has been underwhelming, Bonga´d be an interesting choice. He´s a FA this summer.

While I think we should always look around the edges, I´d rather sink all our assets in the 3rd guy now. We can get somebody like Anfernee Simons, that should take highest priority. One more reliable 25 PPG scorer on this team and we are ready. All these "dare them" threes that go to PJ, Exum, Kleber and Green are going to him, he´s going to feast. Six attempts per game (eight over the last three years) on 39% shooting as a #1 option. And always healthy. Plus he´s Josh Green fast with the ball. That´s the dream, folks.  Cry
(05-11-2024, 06:36 AM)Mavs2021 Wrote: I like myself a Pokusevski, but I assume the Hornets will just keep him. He still has a non-guaranteed contract for next year.

I have my eyes on Isaac Bonga, whose basketball IQ is a bit questionable, but he can defend 1 through 5 and at 6´8 can play some point forward, too. Just got to have faith in the Lakers ability to draft great and then screw it up. Once upon a time they had Randle, Ingram, Ball, Hart, Zubac, Russell, Mo Wagner and Bonga. Traded them all away. Why should Bonga be the one guy they were right on drafting and wrong on dumping. Tongue He´s still only 24 years old. While the Exum play-off experience has been underwhelming, Bonga´d be an interesting choice. He´s a FA this summer.

While I think we should always look around the edges, I´d rather sink all our assets in the 3rd guy now. We can get somebody like Anfernee Simons, that should take highest priority. One more reliable 25 PPG scorer on this team and we are ready. All these "dare them" threes that go to PJ, Exum, Kleber and Green are going to him, he´s going to feast. Six attempts per game (eight over the last three years) on 39% shooting as a #1 option. And always healthy. Plus he´s Josh Green fast with the ball. That´s the dream, folks.  Cry

Would love Simons here but good health is not his strong suit. I wonder if Sexton could bring 3/4 of what Simons does, only cheaper to trade for.
(05-11-2024, 09:46 AM)MarkAguirreWrathofGod Wrote: Would love Simons here but good health is not his strong suit. I wonder if Sexton could bring 3/4 of what Simons does, only cheaper to trade for.

I thought about this, then I looked up his stats. First three years I believe the longest stretch he missed was four games. The rest were DNPs in his rookie season.
4th year he played every game until the Blazers went into a tank. They finished 2-19 without him. 5th year he once again misses 16 of the last 21 games.  This year he missed 18 games at the start of the year with a thumb injury. Then he missed the last 12 games again at the end of the year.

The one time in his career, he suffered an early season injury it sticks out like a sore thumb *pun intended* compared to all the mysterious "he has an ankle bubu" and a "knee ouchie" that always seem to hit him during tank season. So overall I´d say he has actually been pretty healthy. 

Given the rumours about his unhappiness with losing, and the general set-up with Henderson/Sharpe, I´m definitely sniffing around him.

If not this summer, then certainly at the deadline or next summer, when his contract only has 12 months left. You always gotta start working these guys early.

Selling him on being the missing piece on a championship contender, while gradually moving into the 2nd spot next to Luka as Kyrie ages, seems a pretty good selling strategy for our Al Bundy.
Who won this trade?


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(05-11-2024, 02:35 PM)DallasMaverick Wrote: Who won this trade?

Not sure what are you getting at with these questions. That breaking a bank for a star isn't a viable strategy? Teams were definitely on different timelines. Clippers wanting to win now built what it looked like a perfectly constructed team full of two way wings in their prime. But, they were never able to finish a season healthy in I don't know how many seasons now. It is difficult to win a title. I think they were far better positioned to win a title with George than they would be with SGA in the first three seasons after the trade. All teams go all in at some point when they feel they can contend and only one wins every season.

Lakers paid a fortune for A.Davis. Who won that trade? They won the title with him, so I think it paid off. If they wouldn't, I guess it would be a next trade on your question list Smile Milwaukee paid 3 first rounders and more for JRue. Who won that trade?
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(05-11-2024, 06:21 PM)omahen Wrote: Not sure what are you getting at with these questions. That breaking a bank for a star isn't a viable strategy? Teams were definitely on different timelines. Clippers wanting to win now built what it looked like a perfectly constructed team full of two way wings in their prime. But, they were never able to finish a season healthy in I don't know how many seasons now. It is difficult to win a title. I think they were far better positioned to win a title with George than they would be with SGA in the first three seasons after the trade. All teams go all in at some point when they feel they can contend and only one wins every season.

Lakers paid a fortune for A.Davis. Who won that trade? They won the title with him, so I think it paid off. If they wouldn't, I guess it would be a next trade on your question list Smile Milwaukee paid 3 first rounders and more for JRue. Who won that trade?

I don’t have a particular agenda, other than the fascination of looking back on a really big, high-stakes trade and trying to evaluate who guessed right.

So in the case of AD, yes, I’d have to say the Lakers won.

I think those “all-in” moves are particularly intriguing. If the team guesses right, it can all be worth it. But if wrong, they’re screwed for a long time.
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(05-11-2024, 06:21 PM)omahen Wrote: Not sure what are you getting at with these questions. That breaking a bank for a star isn't a viable strategy? Teams were definitely on different timelines. Clippers wanting to win now built what it looked like a perfectly constructed team full of two way wings in their prime. But, they were never able to finish a season healthy in I don't know how many seasons now. It is difficult to win a title. I think they were far better positioned to win a title with George than they would be with SGA in the first three seasons after the trade. All teams go all in at some point when they feel they can contend and only one wins every season.

Lakers paid a fortune for A.Davis. Who won that trade? They won the title with him, so I think it paid off. If they wouldn't, I guess it would be a next trade on your question list Smile Milwaukee paid 3 first rounders and more for JRue. Who won that trade?

Only reason that Lakers/Pelicans trade worked was COVID and the no travel bubble. I don´t think you get credit for foreshadowing a world wide pandemic that resulted in a shortened season and a three months break before the play-offs that allowed Bron to reload on his juice.
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(05-11-2024, 06:28 PM)Mavs2021 Wrote: Only reason that Lakers/Pelicans trade worked was COVID and the no travel bubble. I don´t think you get credit for foreshadowing a world wide pandemic that resulted in a shortened season and a three months break before the play-offs that allowed Bron to reload on his juice.

Unfortunately, there’s no credit for assembling a good team or making personnel moves that really seemed like a good idea.

There’s just credit for winning. And yes, luck plays a significant role.
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(05-11-2024, 06:27 PM)DallasMaverick Wrote: I don’t have a particular agenda, other than the fascination of looking back on a really big, high-stakes trade and trying to evaluate who guessed right.

So in the case of AD, yes, I’d have to say the Lakers won.

I think those “all-in” moves are particularly intriguing. If the team guesses right, it can all be worth it. But if wrong, they’re screwed for a long time.

Yes, it is always a gamble. Obviously OKC look like they get the better of it at this point. But I think that doesn't mean it was a wrong move to take for Clippers at that particular point. They built a great team, luck didn't went their way. For every team in the league it is a game of cycles. You try to build a great team, contend for some seasons but sooner or later you get out of options to stay competitive while your stars age. Reset, try again. Many teams fail to build contending team in the rebuild. Only very few of them manage to do it with young stars still on cheap contracts. 

A while ago I gave Memphis as an example. They looked on a great path a couple of seasons ago. Now their team is expensive with their guys on their second deals and they don't seem to be any closer to contending.
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(05-11-2024, 06:27 PM)DallasMaverick Wrote: I don’t have a particular agenda, other than the fascination of looking back on a really big, high-stakes trade and trying to evaluate who guessed right.

So in the case of AD, yes, I’d have to say the Lakers won.

I think those “all-in” moves are particularly intriguing. If the team guesses right, it can all be worth it. But if wrong, they’re screwed for a long time.

The Mavs went with what seemed to be an all-in move with Kyrie last year - giving up two players they needed and precious longterm draft capital, which is a low price for a significant star but still seen as a major risk at the time - and it came through for them in spades. 

If the Mavs could get yet another star without giving up Luka (duh), Kyrie, PJ, or Lively, it would be huge. Can't think of anyone out there who fits the timeline and would be distressed enough for us to afford like Kyrie was. No Russ Westbrick, please.
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I think the LAC-OKC trade was about as archetypical as there can be of a Win-Win trade. A good way to assess a trade is to try to answer the question of which team would call off the trade, if they knew then what they know now, and I think NEITHER team would call off that trade, even in hindsight.

For LAC, don't forget that what that trade also truly yielded was Kawhi Leonard, because he wanted to sign with LAC but made it clear he wouldn't do so if they didn't land PG (or someone like him, an elite all-star talent) to help the team win. LAC gave up a lot in SGA and future draft capital, but got a huge franchise-altering duo, and it positioned them to immediately be a "win now" team.

And obviously OKC got assets to rebuild from the ashes that has turned into 2 very good players, SGA and Williams. The rest of the "draft capital" is just a pupu platter of what look likely to be low picks, with the upside that they have multiple chances to get lucky.
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Donte DiVincenzo's last 4 playoff games...

44.8 MPG, 27.8 PPG, 4.0 RPG, 3.5 APG, 1.5 BLKs, 1.0 STLs

The Mavs FO should have traded for him or tried to sign him when he went from the Bucks to the Kings.

THJ + what (?) for Donte?
The Knicks are competing exactly the same as us, they have more assets (even a team of ours) and he is also a running mate of Brunson and Hart... first of all you have to think if the trade makes any kind of logic/sense for it. another team too...not simply if it suits us...and that my friend makes no sense
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Evan Sidery (@esidery)
The possibility of the Hawks making Trae Young available in trade talks this offseason are “very real,” per @wojespn.

Atlanta appears moving in the direction of a rebuild after securing the No. 1 overall pick.
14x All-Star, 12x all-NBA, 1x MVP, 1x Finals MVP, 1 NBA Championship: Dirk Nowitzki, the man, the myth, the legend.
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(05-12-2024, 10:52 PM)SleepingHero Wrote: Evan Sidery (@esidery)
The possibility of the Hawks making Trae Young available in trade talks this offseason are “very real,” per @wojespn.

Atlanta appears moving in the direction of a rebuild after securing the No. 1 overall pick.

LOL at Atlanta think they're going to rebuild with a number one pick in this sorry draft.
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Evan Sidery (@esidery)
The Spurs, who are expected to show interest in Trae Young if made available this offseason, now have an extremely enticing package to potentially offer the Hawks.

Armed with two lottery picks (Nos. 4 + 8), plus control of Atlanta’s drafts 2025-2027, San Antonio presents them a real opportunity to reset.

Young to San Antonio with Atlanta securing three lottery selections and control of their own picks again could be a major win-win for both organizations.
14x All-Star, 12x all-NBA, 1x MVP, 1x Finals MVP, 1 NBA Championship: Dirk Nowitzki, the man, the myth, the legend.
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