ROSTER TALK: Mavs favs for Vogel if no HC job exists. Kyrie handshake deal?

[RDB]

Cuban remains involved in every decision, 

IMO, this statement doesn’t mean anything.  To take the literal “every decision” statement as factual is pretty nonsensical.  I would think most owners are involved in many of the decisions…it’s the level of involvement that varies.  It could be as simple as a hands off owner who simply approves the dollars for acquisitions all the way to Jerry Jones who fashions himself as a football savant.  Cuban may in fact be closer to Jerry but Cato’s comment doesn’t confirm that.

[Kammrath]

We have been getting this sense of things, and it's now confirmed in print. Very unfortunate that the Mavs ceiling is still "Cuban's personal level of expertise (or lack of same)." I had hoped that Nico's statements and apparent belief that he was being hired to be the decision-maker on GM things was going to be true, but alas.

Cuban being involved in every decision was never going to change and Cuban and Nico have been transparent about that. Cuban signs the checks, so he checks off (literally) on every single move and decision. But that does NOT mean Cuban is "making" the decisions. There is now a clear and organized system and hierarchy in place to bring decisions to Cuban to get him to check off on them. Cuban is not the GM. He is functioning like an owner, an involved owner, but an owner nonetheless. Sure, there will be things he vetoes that will end up being bad decisions and there will be things he signs off on that will be bad decisions, but overall it sounds like things are WAY better than they were before.

[F Gump]

Cuban being involved in every decision was never going to change and Cuban and Nico have been transparent about that. Cuban signs the checks, so he checks off (literally) on every single move and decision. But that does NOT mean Cuban is "making" the decisions. There is now a clear and organized system and hierarchy in place to bring decisions to Cuban to get him to check off on them. Cuban is not the GM. He is functioning like an owner, an involved owner, but an owner nonetheless. Sure, there will be things he vetoes that will end up being bad decisions and there will be things he signs off on that will be bad decisions, but overall it sounds like things are WAY better than they were before.

The certainty with which you always absolve Cuban is consistent. 

I would prefer you're right. That would be an incredible step forward.

But I suspect you're blind. Be real, he is way more deeply involved in all the basketball moves than just signing the checks and overseeing the affordability You offer him excuses as the owner, but micro-managing is NOT part of the owner description, nor is the belief that you know more than the ones you could hire to do the job. Until/unless Cuban accepts he is NOT an expert, and truly hires/delegates to others smarter than him, the Mavs ceiling will always be low, limited by Cuban's level of GM skill (competing against those who ARE experts). Cuban believes he can do no wrong, and that hubris is the very thing that lands the Mavs in the ditch with much regularity.

[Kammrath]

micro-managing is NOT part of the owner description

I would argue that there is almost zero evidence of Cuban "micro-managing" the Mavs. In fact I would argue that Cuban was TOO distant and too uninvolved when Donnie was running the disorganized mess. Cuban has his hands in way too many things to even be able to "micro-manage" the Mavs. How can he be "micro-managing" the Mavs when he is too busy shooting Shark Tank to even meet with free agents?

[Kammrath]

absolve Cuban

I do NOT "absolve" Cuban one bit and think he has been a mess of an owner in many ways. For instance, he is completely responsible for the Donnie mess unfolding on his watch and letting it drag on for YEARS. 

All I am trying to do is make sure the blame that is put on him is accurate and not based on emotional fan reaction and desire to find a "scapegoat."

[F Gump]

What you call the "Donnie mess" is really the mess caused by Cuban holding the GM reins (without the skill) at every significant crossroads, and running the team into the ditch each time. You want to throw Donnie under the bus, yet the world-class disasters were when Cuban overruled Donnie. Don't try to say that's on Donnie.

It's not making Cuban a scapegoat to point the finger at him for all the mistakes HE made by being the GM -- and it's his fault if he wanted to be the smartest guy in the room, and wouldn't pay to hire a world-class GM.

One more thing -- you are actively trying to "spin" Cato's words ("Cuban remains involved in every decision") into something it's not. Please don't be so deliberately blind - clearly, Cato wouldn't have mentioned this if it was activity he sees as normal for an owner.

It's okay if you want to say/believe Cato's lying and you don't believe him. But let's not pretend here, as to the meaning he intended.

Don't forget that Cato's the one who outed the Mavs on Cuban's ways in the first place, leading to Nico being hired amid questions of whether he would be in charge of GM duties and be making decisions. Cato is speaking to that question. He's wanting his readers to know that the move from Donnie to Nico hasn't changed a thing.

[Kammrath]

you are actively trying to "spin" Cato's words ("Cuban remains involved in every decision") into something it's not. Please don't be so deliberately blind - clearly, Cato wouldn't have mentioned this if it was activity he sees as normal for an owner.

It's okay if you want to say/believe Cato's lying and you don't believe him. But let's not pretend here, as to the meaning he intended.

Unless you ARE Cato himself, then you cannot know the intentions of his words. I (and apparently another poster before me) think his intentions and meaning are ambiguous there. 

I interpret them in the way the evidence seems to point from the big picture. You interpret them another way. 

But "being involved in every decision" is not a clear statement and there are literally hundreds of ways in an organization that an owner could be "involved" in the decisions. 

We have been factually told that Cuban signs the checks and approves of every decision that involves money. This is what we have been told and know for a fact his involvement is. It COULD be more (I grant you that), but we do not know for a fact what "involvement" looks like at this point.

[RoyTarpleysGhost]

Lol it’s like a little kid that believes in Santa Claus. This dude cannot possibly be this naive.

Cuban told us the GM he hired “isn’t there yet on player evaluation.” Yea I’m sure he’s letting Nico run the team and only signing off at the end like an owner. 

[Hypermav]

Nico's job is to convince Cuban to his pov.  Just as Cynt's job is to help him make the right decision.  Mavs are also much more corporate diverse now...

[KillerLeft]

At this point, I'm not sure it matters who's in charge. Either way, they completely botched the Brunson situation.

[RoyTarpleysGhost]

Nico's job is to convince Cuban to his pov.  Just as Cynt's job is to help him make the right decision.  Mavs are also much more corporate diverse now...

That’s not how a successful organization works in any field. You hire qualified people and empower them to do their jobs. 

Lmao at Cynt too. They just roll her out when there’s some controversy like the Kidd hiring. I’m honestly embarrassed for her. I’m sure she’s compensated well to be a joke though. 

It’s all very amateur hour.

[RDB]

I think we are missing the point.  Dak may only be out 4 weeks and…wait, is this the Cowboys forum?

I’m not sure why people got butt hurt about Kam’s statement.  Cato’s statement IMO means nothing in isolation without additional context.  Others may be completely right…maybe Cuban is drawing up plays at halftime…who knows.  If you believe Cuban is a meddlesome owner who has to control every aspect of the Mav’s, Cato’s comment serves as confirmation bias.  But to say that we now have confirmation of what we have believed to be true based on this comment from him is silly.

[RDB]

That’s not how a successful organization works in any field. You hire qualified people and empower them to do their jobs. 

It’s actually how organizations work in most fields at the top levels.  Yes you hire the right people and empower them to do their jobs but directional decisions are commonly made at the highest levels.  It is VERY common for mid and upper level managers to have to fight for their visions, especially when there are competing visions.  I deal with this all the time.

[Kammrath]

Cato’s statement IMO means nothing in isolation without additional context.  Others may be completely right…maybe Cuban is drawing up plays at halftime…who knows.  If you believe Cuban is a meddlesome owner who has to control every aspect of the Mav’s, Cato’s comment serves as confirmation bias.  But to say that we now have confirmation of what we have believed to be true based on this comment from him is silly.

Wisdom.

[RoyTarpleysGhost]

I think we are missing the point.  Dak may only be out 4 weeks and…wait, is this the Cowboys forum?

I’m not sure why people got butt hurt about Kam’s statement.  Cato’s statement IMO means nothing in isolation without additional context.  Others may be completely right…maybe Cuban is drawing up plays at halftime…who knows.  If you believe Cuban is a meddlesome owner who has to control every aspect of the Mav’s, Cato’s comment serves as confirmation bias.  But to say that we now have confirmation of what we have believed to be true based on this comment from him is silly.

No one is butt hurt. 

Either this guy has the mental capacity of an elementary school student or he’s being paid to run a propaganda side. I refuse to believe anyone is this stupid.

[cow]

I'm not sure anyone realistically expected Cuban to not have a hands-on approach when it comes to basketball operations.  How hands-on he is and if he learned from past mistakes is TBD.  It might be the honeymoon period with Cuban, Nico, Kidd and Finley, but they do seem to have a more unified front.  For a LONG time it felt like Cuban, Donnie, Carlisle, Finley and later, Bob were all marching to beat of their own drummer.

-Not drafting Giannis (2013)
-Rondo trade (2014)
-Jalen Brunson rookie contract (2018)
-Dwight Powell extension (2019)
-Dennis Smith Jr. fallout (2019)
-Delon Wright trade (2019)
-Josh Richardson trade (2020)
-Drafting Josh Green (2020)

It really makes you wonder if there was consensus with MBT1.0 on the big moves like Parsons, Barnes and Porzingis.  It also seems like a miracle that they managed to trade for/draft Luka and grab Jalen later in the same draft.

MBT2.0 errors in contrast seem far less impactful.

-Sterling Brown signing
-Boban resigning 

I'm not the biggest fan of KP trade mostly because of Bertan's albatross contract and it felt a little like we kicked that contract problem further down the road, but that is largely MBT2.0 paying for the sins of MBT1.0.  Ditto for Jalen Brunson walking.  

I'm not really sure which camp to toss the THJ resigning onto as Nico was brand new on the job, but at least they structured his contract smartly.  

Further, it's hard to judge MBT 2.0 as they were given a massive hole to dig out of after a decade of incompetence.  They have done some good things around the edges:

+Bullock signing
+Wood trade and I'm comfortable saying that considering the players that were sent out were largely dead weight save for Burke.
+DFS extension
+Maxi extension
+++Luka extension
=Dinwiddie/Bertans trade.  At worst this was a wash but considering how far we made it in the playoffs, it's hard to not call this a short term success.  
=McGee.  I'd consider this a plus if not for us giving him 3 years.  He is a major "fall off a cliff" candidate.
=Drafting Hardy is a TBD

It will be interesting to see if MBT2.0 manages to hold onto their FRPs this season and what they will do with a full compliment after next years draft should they hold onto them.  

That's a long winded way of saying the jury is still out.  It does feel like things are trending in a positive direction even if they are hitting singles instead of home runs but you have to be realistic with what they can accomplish with limited assets.  Around the edges is probably as good as it gets until MBT2.0 can build any semblance of a war chest.  

And this is all coming from me, who is REALLY negative about Cuban and the future outlook of the team.  I will say that I'm a little disappointed in Nico.  His strength was supposed to be in player relationships and I don't think that has paid any dividends at this point.

[sterlingmallory]

I'm not the biggest fan of KP trade mostly because of Bertan's albatross contract and it felt a little like we kicked that contract problem further down the road, but that is largely MBT2.0 paying for the sins of MBT1.0.  Ditto for Jalen Brunson walking.  

MBT 2.0 could have signed Brunson to an extension during the season. I don't let them off the hook for the Brunson fiasco, even if the roots of it did start under the old regime with the stupid rookie contract they gave him that allowed him to be a UFA in the first place. Still, they could have nullified that error if they had just extended Brunson during the season when they reportedly had a chance. 

Then they doubled down on that mistake and didn't even get close to the offer NY made to him. Then they tripled down on it and decided Dragic is washed up and that they'd rather roll into the season with no 3rd playmaker (unless they sign Schroder, but honestly, I would have preferred Dragic).

This offseason really killed all the hype I had for the new front office after the KP trade.

[cow]

MBT 2.0 could have signed Brunson to an extension during the season. I don't let them off the hook for the Brunson fiasco, even if the roots of it did start under the old regime with the stupid rookie contract they gave him that allowed him to be a UFA in the first place. Still, they could have nullified that error if they had just extended Brunson during the season when they reportedly had a chance. 

Then they doubled down on that mistake and didn't even get close to the offer NY made to him. Then they tripled down on it and decided Dragic is washed up and that they'd rather roll into the season with no 3rd playmaker (unless they sign Schroder, but honestly, I would have preferred Dragic).

This offseason really killed all the hype I had for the new front office after the KP trade.

Jalen is one of the large reasons I listed Nico as a disappointment as a "relationship guy".  I'm used to MBT not getting a seat at the table with free agents, but when the free agent is your own guy, that is a new low.

[ItsGoTime]

So, I have never been into any trade that swaps Hield for THJ because I don’t think he moves the needle much with THJ already being here. I’ve looked closer at the numbers and a swap of THJ for Hield is still not much of a needle mover, but with this roster and his game, I think there is something to like. Add in his contract and he could be just the slight upgrade we could really use.

Hield is a better shooter and ball handler/distributor, not a large difference (unless you go outside the 2 Mavs years). He has never had many injuries in a season (games played are on par with DFS). He has started and come off the bench and that hasn’t really affected his numbers much (although I do think he has the same feeling THJ has in that sense). He plays more mpg.

On top of his game is his contract. It’s expiring at the right time (in 2 years). It dips down that final year (and is much closer to THJ’s number). That gives us 2 expiring contracts to deal using the picks we receive next year after the draft in Hield and Bertans. I think it would be a bit harder sell with THJ’s contract.

The question is, how much more than THJ would Indiana want? If it’s a second or 2 or one of Frank or Green, is that worth it for a better now and later situation? If it’s more, I don’t touch it.

[Chicagojk]

IMO, this statement doesn’t mean anything.  To take the literal “every decision” statement as factual is pretty nonsensical.  I would think most owners are involved in many of the decisions…it’s the level of involvement that varies.  It could be as simple as a hands off owner who simply approves the dollars for acquisitions all the way to Jerry Jones who fashions himself as a football savant.  Cuban may in fact be closer to Jerry but Cato’s comment doesn’t confirm that.

I agree with your comment.   We probably won't get a true view if anything has changed until the honeymoon phase is over.    In my opinion, the less Cuban the better.  He will always have the final say.  How we get to that point though is the full story.