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[IamDougieFresh]

Josh Green is two and a half years younger and played one year of college ball vs. Bane’s four at TCU. Green could still very well wind up being a better all around player than Bane, though it’s unlikely he’ll ever be as good from 3.

I hate to be that guy, but the chances of Green being this good are less than 5% in my estimation. It doesn't mean he can't become a decent player, but based on what we have seen it is highly unlikely he will surpass Bane.

   
 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   

Per Game Table

Player	From	To	G	GS	MP	FG	FGA	FG%	3P	3PA	3P%	2P	2PA	2P%	eFG%	FT	FTA	FT%	ORB	DRB	TRB	AST	STL	BLK	TOV	PF	PTS
Desmond Bane	2022	2022	76	76	29.8	6.7	14.5	.461	3.0	6.9	.436	3.7	7.6	.484	.565	1.8	2.0	.903	0.6	3.8	4.4	2.7	1.2	0.4	1.5	2.6	18.2
Klay Thompson	2013	2013	82	82	35.8	6.2	14.7	.422	2.6	6.4	.401	3.6	8.3	.437	.509	1.6	1.9	.841	0.4	3.3	3.7	2.2	1.0	0.5	1.9	2.9	16.6

"The Dallas Mavericks must do everything they can to get Olivier-Maxence Prosper."
- IamDougieFresh (05-20-2023, 04:39 AM)

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[MarkAguirreWrathofGod]

I think it’s actually a very reasonable take. You are most likely right. I just think Green has a lot of room to grow. He models his game after Iggy, another Arizona Wildcat, and I think Josh can eventually be an elite role player just like Iggy was. Versatile defender, excellent rebounder, great Court vision. And sometimes spotty shooting. But just imagine Green can cut down on over fouling as he learns opponents tendencies, gets stronger (enhancing his switchability to guard 1-4) and gets his shooting from distance up to league average(not so far fetched— he was great second half of the season). That’s an extremely valuable player! How much would Jae Crowder be worth if he were also an elite athlete that could guard point of attack, with excellent court vision and better handles? Josh Green and Iggy’s University of Arizona counting stats were quite similar. Imagine Josh stayed two years at Arizona and was first team all PAC-10 as a sophomore(which is what Iggy did). Gets drafted in the lottery to a lesser team like Washington or Orlando and gets the opportunity to play and shoot more fight out of the gate. Right now he’s the same age Iggy was as a rookie for Philly. He just needs playing time and patience. The game will eventually slow down for him.

[mvossman]

I hate to be that guy, but the chances of Green being this good are less than 5% in my estimation. It doesn't mean he can't become a decent player, but based on what we have seen it is highly unlikely he will surpass Bane.

While I seriously doubt Green will ever surpass Bane, I'm going to wait a few more seasons before I start comparing Bane to Klay.

[sterlingmallory]

Every time I see Bane or Saddiq Bey vs Green come up in conversation I'm reminded about how truly godawful this front office is at identifying young talent. I really hope this new scouting hire will fix this because the Mavs track record in basically the last 25 years has been horrific other than Luka, Dirk, Brunson, Devin Harris, and Josh Howard. Luka and Dirk are two very, very big hits and that's great but man we can't draft mid-first round talent to save our lives.

[KillerLeft]

Every time I see Bane or Saddiq Bey vs Green come up in conversation I'm reminded about how truly godawful this front office is at identifying young talent. I really hope this new scouting hire will fix this because the Mavs track record in basically the last 25 years has been horrific other than Luka, Dirk, Brunson, Devin Harris, and Josh Howard. Luka and Dirk are two very, very big hits and that's great but man we can't draft mid-first round talent to save our lives.

The good news is that this one aspect of front office activity has the greatest chance of changing with the new regime. They can't make Cuban do something to which he's philosophically opposed, but they can target different attributes in players with the opportunities he allows them. 

Too early to know whether they're better at evaluating young players, but I think there's already evidence that they're looking for different things, at least. The Hardy pick is just one of several moves they've made the the former regime wouldn't have, imo.

[mvossman]

The good news is that this one aspect of front office activity has the greatest chance of changing with the new regime. They can't make Cuban do something to which he's philosophically opposed, but they can target different attributes in players with the opportunities he allows them. 

Too early to know whether they're better at evaluating young players, but I think there's already evidence that they're looking for different things, at least. The Hardy pick is just one of several moves they've made the the former regime wouldn't have, imo.

I'm not so sure this is true.  My understanding is Cuban is the reason why we did not draft Giannis.  In fact, over the last 20 years this FO greatest asset was Nelson identifying elite European talent (Dirk, Giannis, Luka).  That is gone now.  The rest of our drafting history has not been great, but most of that was late first round picks, or no picks because we traded them away.  

I think the Green pick is not part of any long term issues, it was a symptom of more recent mass dysfunction in the FO (which I lay totally at Cuban's feet).  If Nelson was running the draft room like he should have been (instead of bailing like a little bitch) I would not be surprised if we ended up with Bane.  He seems like a Nelson kind of pick (see Brunson).

The reality is that we still have Cuban running the show, and below him a guy with no NBA front office experience.  I think it is reasonable to hope that we wont suffer the dysfunction that led to the Green pick, but I have no reason to believe our drafting performance is going to be any better than it has been the last 20 years when you take into account the huge hits (Dirk, Luka) the should have been huge hit (Giannis) and the fact that we were generally picking late in first round or not at all.

[Chicagojk]

I'm not so sure this is true.  My understanding is Cuban is the reason why we did not draft Giannis.  In fact, over the last 20 years this FO greatest asset was Nelson identifying elite European talent (Dirk, Giannis, Luka).  That is gone now.  The rest of our drafting history has not been great, but most of that was late first round picks, or no picks because we traded them away.  

I think the Green pick is not part of any long term issues, it was a symptom of more recent mass dysfunction in the FO (which I lay totally at Cuban's feet).  If Nelson was running the draft room like he should have been (instead of bailing like a little bitch) I would not be surprised if we ended up with Bane.  He seems like a Nelson kind of pick (see Brunson).

The reality is that we still have Cuban running the show, and below him a guy with no NBA front office experience.  I think it is reasonable to hope that we wont suffer the dysfunction that led to the Green pick, but I have no reason to believe our drafting performance is going to be any better than it has been the last 20 years when you take into account the huge hits (Dirk, Luka) the should have been huge hit (Giannis) and the fact that we were generally picking late in first round or not at a

My hope is Nico brings discipline and structure.   I think it is unfair to think that Nico is Jerry West 2.0.  The Mavs recently hired a guy from Brooklyn who is well thought of apparently.  Hopefully other changes are happening inside the scouting team to bring new blood in.  With more structure and discipline hopefully this curtails Cuban from winging it or listening to a new voice.  

Maybe it is unfair to characterize the previous regime this way because Cuban plays such a big role, but it always felt like they are going off on feel and hunches.   Hopefully the new regime is more organized, disciplined and has a well thought out plan.    I mean up until a few years ago we didn't even have a draft board which is really surprising.

[MarkAguirreWrathofGod]

Not losing any sleep over missing out on Saddiq Bey. I liked him coming out and he’s a nice player, but he’s shooting 40% from the field for both of seasons thus far. 39.6 from the field and 34% from 3 last season. He’s a good useable player but not a good rebounder for his size. Not athletic and little upside, though he’ll probably become more efficient.

[mvossman]

Not losing any sleep over missing out on Saddiq Bey. I liked him coming out and he’s a nice player, but he’s shooting 40% from the field for both of seasons thus far. 39.6 from the field and 34% from 3 last season. He’s a good useable player but not a good rebounder for his size. Not athletic and little upside, though he’ll probably become more efficient.

Agreed.  He is not a particularly good defender either.  He is a better player than Green right now but two years older.  There is a reasonable possibility Green surpasses him.  Its Bane that really stings.

[sterlingmallory]

Not losing any sleep over missing out on Saddiq Bey. I liked him coming out and he’s a nice player, but he’s shooting 40% from the field for both of seasons thus far. 39.6 from the field and 34% from 3 last season. He’s a good useable player but not a good rebounder for his size. Not athletic and little upside, though he’ll probably become more efficient.

Nothing personal but I hate this mindset. He's not a perfect player so no big deal we passed on him? That's the kind of mindset that leads to us constantly throwing away draft picks like we have the last couple decades. We passed on two potential franchise cornerstones (Bane and Maxey) and someone who I think will at least be a solid starter (Bey) for someone who if we're lucky will end up being a decent bench player one day (but at the moment is completely unplayable in a playoff environment). Sorry, but that's a massive failure. We need young talent, flawed or not, and we consistently miss out on it and I'm sick of it. 

As for Bey's shooting percentages, I suspect those are affected by him being on a Pistons team that doesn't have a true #1 option and thus he's forced to take a lot of shots that he may not be comfortable with, which lowers his percentages. 

Bey isn't perfect, but come on guys, unless Green has some kind of Kawhi-like developmental spurt, Bey is and will be the better player. I would bet money Green will never average 16ppg for a year like Bey did this year.

[MarkAguirreWrathofGod]

Yeah man. What stings is we could’ve conceivably had Green AND Bane if Memphis didn’t jump us, or if we had packaged our two seconds to move up a spot.. i wonder if with the draft room chaos they were caught off guard by being leapfrogged. Also possible they liked Terry as much or more. I really like Josh and think he has nowhere but up to go. I think he can be an elite level defender. So I’m much less concerned about THAT draft and it’s misses. I think Josh will earn another contract and start for a decade here. I do think the Overall MBT approach to the draft has been horrendous, misguided, shortsighted and ill prepared. Just not ready to lump Josh Green’s selection in with the fuck-ups yet.

[MarkAguirreWrathofGod]

Of course there is also a world in which we drafted local boys Maxey and Bane and had our team set up to contend for the next ten years. Ok now I’m getting bummed ?

[KillerLeft]

I'm not so sure this is true.  My understanding is Cuban is the reason why we did not draft Giannis. 

This kind of proves my point.

Philosophically, Cuban had decided then to make a play for cap space and determined that the financial difference between drafting at 13 (I think) and trading down was significant in relation to that goal.

No GM would’ve been able to convince him otherwise, imo. 

But, different GM’s would probably have targeted different players at 13 (or with the lower pick, for that matter) had they been allowed to make a selection. 

Point being, I don’t believe Harrison/Finley can necessarily force Cuban to see big-picture strategy issues differently, but they CAN make different choices than Donnie would’ve with the opportunities Cuban allows them. Whether that amounts to positive change remains to be seen, but I’ve liked the majority of what they’ve done so far.

[Jym]

Hasn't worked but I'm still fine with selecting Green where we did
I more hate the way we handled the draft overall where we ended up with 3 guys who all needed minutes to develop. Never made any sense to me
Trade up, trade out for a future pick(s), a Euro stash, maybe trade for an established player
We should have have ended the night with only one rookie

[chaparral]

Hasn't worked but I'm still fine with selecting Green where we did
I more hate the way we handled the draft overall where we ended up with 3 guys who all needed minutes to develop. Never made any sense to me
Trade up, trade out for a future pick(s), a Euro stash, maybe trade for an established player
We should have have ended the night with only one rookie

Wasn't there news that they were trying to trade up to 12 for Haliburton?

[chaparral]

I think the Green pick is not part of any long term issues, it was a symptom of more recent mass dysfunction in the FO (which I lay totally at Cuban's feet).  If Nelson was running the draft room like he should have been (instead of bailing like a little bitch) I would not be surprised if we ended up with Bane.  He seems like a Nelson kind of pick (see Brunson).

The reality is that we still have Cuban running the show, and below him a guy with no NBA front office experience. 

There are a lot of us on this board that think your comments above are true.  However, I don't recall any of us wanting to pick Bane at 18.  I for one was among the ones that wanted to have 3 picks in the 2020 draft.  There was a lot of exciting talk on this board leading up to that draft.  And again, we were all left disappointed.

[ItsGoTime]

Wasn't there news that they were trying to trade up to 12 for Haliburton?

Yes, it was a pick swap and Brunson for Haliburton. I think Sac didn’t want to get embarrassed again.

[Hypermav]

https://twitter.com/TheNBACentral/status/1560983725189496832?s=20&t=U0Ft1val77UQYLg8Eolr_g

[Hypermav]

https://twitter.com/TheNBACentral/status/1560989346496499713?s=20&t=U0Ft1val77UQYLg8Eolr_g

[Hypermav]

I would rather have Rose or one of the Utah group (Bog, Conley or Bev) than Sexton.  Not sure why Fedor brings it up again because we all know the sign and trade for Sexton is difficult.