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[DanSchwartzgan]

 speaking of my Crowder mention.....Not a ton there.   Sort of like the SI Dallas guys, but it is interesting how a lot of Suns fans don't expect him back this upcoming season. 

If the plan for Crowder is a salary dump (to cut down on Sarver’s $35mm tax bill), I have difficulty seeing how it happens with Dallas.  We’d need a third team to take on Powell (presumably).  A straight up trade with the Suns isn’t helping the money situation in Phoenix.  It is just swapping similarly priced players.

So, then you look for who that third team might be and the inevitable question is if they can take on Powell’s expiring $11mm, why wouldn’t they prefer Crowder’s expiring $10mm instead.  Jae’s game is much more plug and play.

If it isn’t a salary dump, but instead Phoenix is sending out a package that includes Crowder for Player X (read Durant), you end up with the same question.  Why would Brooklyn want Powell over Crowder?  The only reason would be that Dallas compensated them to make that swap, but what price would you pay for the ability to rent the 32 year old for a year?  I’m certainly in favor of the addition.  Just have trouble seeing the path.

[Chicagojk]

If the plan for Crowder is a salary dump (to cut down on Sarver’s $35mm tax bill), I have difficulty seeing how it happens with Dallas.  We’d need a third team to take on Powell (presumably).  A straight up trade with the Suns isn’t helping the money situation in Phoenix.  It is just swapping similarly priced players.

So, then you look for who that third team might be and the inevitable question is if they can take on Powell’s expiring $11mm, why wouldn’t they prefer Crowder’s expiring $10mm instead.  Jae’s game is much more plug and play.

If it isn’t a salary dump, but instead Phoenix is sending out a package that includes Crowder for Player X (read Durant), you end up with the same question.  Why would Brooklyn want Powell over Crowder?  The only reason would be that Dallas compensated them to make that swap, but what price would you pay for the ability to rent the 32 year old for a year?  I’m certainly in favor of the addition.  Just have trouble seeing the path.

I agree.  I don't see it happening.   I was wondering in the beginning of the summer if the Mavs had their TPE (either the one that expired or if they got one for Brunson) if that could have been an option.  Maybe it wouldn't have matched Crowder's salary?   PHX has two younger wings who they probably see as a part of their future core (if not moved in the talked about KD trade).   So I thought Crowder may be someone Sarver could reduce salary on.   With PHX bringing their team back, I think it would be smart to keep Crowder.  You can always move him during the season.  But Sarver can do strange things.  On a separate item, I wonder what PHX is going to do at backup PG.   Payne was pretty bad last year after a solid year prior.  With Chris Paul at 36, it would be nice to have a more reliable backup who can take the load off Paul in the regular season.   Maybe they can use Crowder to get a higher quality PG?

Plus, if they were to move Crowder just to get off his salary, it wouldn't be a great PR move to trade him to a West competitor....and one who embarrassed you in game 7 of the playoffs.

Edit- not sure of the Suns roster # now but they could eventually be looking at a the same minimum back up point guards that Dallas is looking at too.

[Hypermav]

https://twitter.com/sixfivelando/status/1555329499784413184?s=20&t=gVkQlSmLZKUbvaxP9OrI6g

[DanSchwartzgan]

I don't really understand the Dragic fumble.  He seems like the perfect fit on this team.  At this point I hope they sign Bledsoe.

Bledsoe came up on the Hardwood Knocks Podcast yesterday.  .64 points per possession as a PnR initiator is terrible.  However, the host pointed out that he hit 38.6% on catch and shoot 3’s (which means he was terrible on self-created 3’s).  He also said Bledsoe was a hair over 51% on drives to the rim with an assist rate on drives of over 10%.  Bledsoe (and Luka) are two of only seven guys in the NBA who shot over 51% on drives and had an assist rate on those drives of over 10%.

He’s looked pretty washed since leaving Milwaukee, but he’s been on pretty bad teams at both stops.  I don’t think you can count out anyone who has any kind of history with Kidd.  If we did something like this, Bledsoe is probably on the floor with one of Luka and SD (so he isn’t the primary initiator), surrounded by Maxi, Wood, Hardaway or Wood/Hardaway Maxi/Hardaway and one of the wings.  That is a lot of space, which is what Bledsoe would need to make his drive/dish game effective.  

The question is why isn’t this done already.  I suspect some free agents are waiting for the inevitable 3 for 1 or 4 for 1 deal for Mitchell or Durant or Westbrook to see if there is more PT/Money waiting for them elsewhere.

[Chicagojk]

Bledsoe came up on the Hardwood Knocks Podcast yesterday.  .64 points per possession as a PnR initiator is terrible.  However, the host pointed out that he hit 38.6% on catch and shoot 3’s (which means he was terrible on self-created 3’s).  He also said Bledsoe was a hair over 51% on drives to the rim with an assist rate on drives of over 10%.  Bledsoe (and Luka) are two of only seven guys in the NBA who shot over 51% on drives and had an assist rate on those drives of over 10%.

He’s looked pretty washed since leaving Milwaukee, but he’s been on pretty bad teams at both stops.  I don’t think you can count out anyone who has any kind of history with Kidd.  If we did something like this, Bledsoe is probably on the floor with one of Luka and SD (so he isn’t the primary initiator), surrounded by Maxi, Wood, Hardaway or Wood/Hardaway Maxi/Hardaway and one of the wings.  That is a lot of space, which is what Bledsoe would need to make his drive/dish game effective.  

The question is why isn’t this done already.  I suspect some free agents are waiting for the inevitable 3 for 1 or 4 for 1 deal for Mitchell or Durant or Westbrook to see if there is more PT/Money waiting for them elsewhere.

When Bledsoe was released I think it was Hollinger who said he would be a good get at the tax level MLE.  That sort of surprised me because as you mentioned his last few years since leaving Milwaukee have not been impressive.  I would agree that several of these veterans are waiting around for some moves to be made to see if they can get more than the minimum.   

I have to believe Dallas is either waiting on one of these veterans or hoping to be a part of a trade....maybe both.    You have seen other teams sign people to compete for the last spot on their rosters.  Dallas has a 15th man opening plus a two way.   If they didn't have any plans, you would think they would entice guys like Jarrett Culver, Maybe Tyrell Terry and those type of players to compete for the last roster spot and two way spot.

[DanSchwartzgan]

  

I have to believe Dallas is either waiting on one of these veterans or hoping to be a part of a trade....maybe both.   

I think it could be as simple as Powell for Beverley.  Utah ends up in a Mitchell deal with the Dallas pick and part of the compensation is taking the protection off of 2023.  Also saves Utah tax.  They are $20mm over the line and any deals they do probably need to cut salary fairly substantially.

[Chicagojk]

I think it could be as simple as Powell for Beverley.  Utah ends up in a Mitchell deal with the Dallas pick and part of the compensation is taking the protection off of 2023.  Also saves Utah tax.  They are $20mm over the line and any deals they do probably need to cut salary fairly substantially.

Beverly is more valuable than Powell so I would be behind that.  The only pushback I would have is it Beverly was the only addition, we would still lack a creator.  Beverly, I do t believe, has ever been more than your third creator on the court.  Here he would be second and some cases the first.  I don’t think he can play that role in this team.  So maybe the last spot would still go to an emergency creator?

[DanSchwartzgan]

The only pushback I would have is it Beverly was the only addition, we would still lack a creator.  Beverly, I do t believe, has ever been more than your third creator on the court.  Here he would be second and some cases the first.  I don’t think he can play that role in this team. 

If JB played D like Beverley, he’d have been a max player.  Put another way, part of why the team didn’t like the long term fit with Luka (their words) was largely at the defensive end.

So, if you are going for someone who is a better fit, they can’t be exactly what JB was (that is Dinwiddie’s job now).  So, you get Beverley’s D, but you have to give up something.  Otherwise you are bringing in Jrue Holiday and sending out multiple firsts and pick swaps.  

I think Beverley is just find as a second creator (especially against bench units).  The argument I keep hearing is that what we had last season with two hall handlers on the court at all times worked.  So, PB would be on the floor with one of Luka or SD at all times.  That is basically a secondary role where he initiates a couple of plays designed to get Wood or Hardaway a look and give Luka or Spencer a play to two off the ball.

[KillerLeft]

Put another way, part of why the team didn’t like the long term fit with Luka (their words)

I must've missed this, sorry. Can you point me in the right direction? 

I personally thought he proved to be a great fit with Luka, so this would subtract greatly from my faith in the decision makers.

[mvossman]

I must've missed this, sorry. Can you point me in the right direction? 

I personally thought he proved to be a great fit with Luka, so this would subtract greatly from my faith in the decision makers.

I don't remember them explicitly saying that, but I think fit concerns are legitimate.  Kidd worked some magic to make this a good defensive team in the regular season, but it was a different story in the playoffs.  I think it will be very difficult to have a high level playoff defense with Luka and Brunson on the court together.  You can even make an argument that the offensive fit is not perfect.  Both players are more comfortable with the ball in their hands, although I can see Brunson improving his off ball game eventually.

[MarkAguirreWrathofGod]

Ok so Brunson may not be the PERFECT match for Luka but there is a saying about letting the perfect be the enemy of the good and all that. Bev would be fine as a stopgap but he isn’t a long term solution. He would ok as a secondary playmaker. And he shot 34.6 from 3 and only 40% from the field last season. Brunson is so much better offensively it isn’t funny. Bev is injured a ton. I guess if all it costs is Powell and removing pick protection on ‘23 I could see it. I still wouldn’t see how Powell, Dragic for “free” and keeping top 10 protected in a loaded draft isn’t preferable to Bev. Especially if Dragic here would make Luka super happy! Unless Luka doesn’t really care that much, or there is more to the story than what Dragic said. No reason to doubt him though. Not to mention Brunson seemed pretty tight with Luka and Maxi and the guys. Interested to see how they salvage this. If Bev is the end result it’ll be somewhat underwhelming to me, acknowledging that he is a useful, yet limited, player in his own way.

[Chicagojk]

Ok so Brunson may not be the PERFECT match for Luka but there is a saying about letting the perfect be the enemy of the good and all that. Bev would be fine as a stopgap but he isn’t a long term solution. He would ok as a secondary playmaker. And he shot 34.6 from 3 and only 40% from the field last season. Brunson is so much better offensively it isn’t funny. Bev is injured a ton. I guess if all it costs is Powell and removing pick protection on ‘23 I could see it. I still wouldn’t see how Powell, Dragic for “free” and keeping top 10 protected in a loaded draft isn’t preferable to Bev. Especially if Dragic here would make Luka super happy! Unless Luka doesn’t really care that much, or there is more to the story than what Dragic said. No reason to doubt him though. Not to mention Brunson seemed pretty tight with Luka and Maxi and the guys. Interested to see how they salvage this. If Bev is the end result it’ll be somewhat underwhelming to me, acknowledging that he is a useful, yet limited,  player in his own way.

I tend to agree with your thoughts here.    

I am also much more hesitant than some about releasing the protections on our pick.    A few bad bounces and that could be a pretty valuable pick.   I would hate to have the season from hell and then spend lottery night praying our pick is inside the top 10 and not 12 or 13.

[Chicagojk]

I think it could be as simple as Powell for Beverley.  Utah ends up in a Mitchell deal with the Dallas pick and part of the compensation is taking the protection off of 2023.  Also saves Utah tax.  They are $20mm over the line and any deals they do probably need to cut salary fairly substantially.

That is interesting about the tax savings.   I think Utah is the easiest way to upgrade.   It is tricky and I am sure others will want to get involved.

But, I am not sure how much assets Utah is going to get back for some of these guys.   It is even tricky if they get 3 young players back in a proposed Mitchell trade.   

I am not sure if Dallas would have the best offer here and that is the tricky part.   But I think this would be the best outcome either picking up one of the Utah players or a salary filler they receive in a Mitchell trade.

[mvossman]

Ok so Brunson may not be the PERFECT match for Luka but there is a saying about letting the perfect be the enemy of the good and all that. Bev would be fine as a stopgap but he isn’t a long term solution. He would ok as a secondary playmaker. And he shot 34.6 from 3 and only 40% from the field last season. Brunson is so much better offensively it isn’t funny. Bev is injured a ton. I guess if all it costs is Powell and removing pick protection on ‘23 I could see it. I still wouldn’t see how Powell, Dragic for “free” and keeping top 10 protected in a loaded draft isn’t preferable to Bev. Especially if Dragic here would make Luka super happy! Unless Luka doesn’t really care that much, or there is more to the story than what Dragic said. No reason to doubt him though. Not to mention Brunson seemed pretty tight with Luka and Maxi and the guys. Interested to see how they salvage this. If Bev is the end result it’ll be somewhat underwhelming to me, acknowledging that he is a useful, yet limited,  player in his own way.

I don't think anyone is remotely suggesting that Beverly is a true replacement for Brunson.  We have virtually no assets when Brunson walked so it was never going to be more than a stopgap.  I agree that Dragic would have made a ton of sense, especially after we spent all of tax MLE on McGee and a lottery ticket.  But that ship has sailed so right now its about what is the best we can do with very limited options.  I'm guessing whatever we end up with will more disappointing than a Beverly for Powell swap.

[KillerLeft]

I don't think anyone is remotely suggesting that Beverly is a true replacement for Brunson.

Nobody has said that overtly, no. But, I'm getting the sense that some people think the team might be better with Beverly than it was with Brunson. In general, the opinion of Brunson seems to be changing remarkably quickly now that he's no longer a Maverick.

[mvossman]

Nobody has said that overtly, no. But, I'm getting the sense that some people think the team might be better with Beverly than it was with Brunson. In general, the opinion of Brunson seems to be changing remarkably quickly now that he's no longer a Maverick.

I think some folks are just trying to find a positive out of a shit show.  There probably are some that were not true believers in Brunson while he was here but maybe not as vocal about it while he was on the team.  I felt like your stance on KP (while never positive) went significantly more negative when he got traded away.

[ItsGoTime]

I haven’t read anyone talking about PB replacing JB. I think the consensus (on this board, not necessarily in the FO) is that the biggest hole to fill is the 3rd ball handler that will fit in with what the team as a whole needs. IMO, we’ve more than made up for JB’s scoring load by adding Wood and THJ (if he comes back to form). So really all that’s left is having someone who can help spell Luka and SD. I think PB would do that just fine. The fact that he’s an intense defender, brings a new dimension to the guard rotation that we didn’t have last year. Alleviating the NEED for Bullock to ALWAYS need to guard the point of attack, IMO, can only help this squad this year.

[Scott41theMavs]

I think some folks are just trying to find a positive out of a shit show.  There probably are some that were not true believers in Brunson while he was here but maybe not as vocal about it while he was on the team.  I felt like your stance on KP (while never positive) went significantly more negative when he got traded away.

Nah, that last part is not accurate. KL was always negs on KP. Very consistently so, since the second Clipps series.

[Chicagojk]

https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/15560...16512?s=21&t=DUL9l0rKqEqW_tK4D2qpIA

[Chicagojk]

https://twitter.com/johnhollinger/status...42151?s=21&t=DUL9l0rKqEqW_tK4D2qpIA