TDL Archived: The 2nd Rnd Pick Yankee Swap

[michaeltex]

Reading is an art.

Here I thought reading was FUNdamental!

[ItsGoTime]

It's an easy call that the Mavs have no reason to trade for Gordon with THJ here, as you point out.

The obvious swap would be THJ for Gordon. But I'm not sure that getting Gordon would be the more desirable end of the deal. Offering a first for him would be dumb.

Stats are incredibly similar. Contracts are about the same this year.

But THJ is 4 years younger. OTOH his deal has 2 more years after this one, while EG's will expire. But THJ's deal will get smaller each year, if you want a reasonably priced player rather than air.

While I would prefer Bogdan to THJ, I would much prefer THJ to Gordon, it’s not really even close in my mind.

[KillerLeft]

While I would prefer Bogdan to THJ, I would much prefer THJ to Gordon, it’s not really even close in my mind.

In my mind, they are two completely different types of player, not an either/or situation with redundancy. But I might be confusing Gordon with Bledsoe. I'm getting senile in my old age.

[ItsGoTime]

In my mind, they are two completely different types of player, not an either/or situation with redundancy. But I might be confusing Gordon with Bledsoe. I'm getting senile in my old age.

Not at all, both mostly offensive players (defense on both is suspect). Gordon scores either beyond the 3 line or within 10 ft from the basket, while THJ is either beyond the 3 or equal opportunity at each distance closer to the basket. They both utilize possession of the ball to get themselves shots. 

Bledsoe is mostly a defensive creature.

Edit: If THJ gets his 3 back on track, he's probably the better 3 shooter, but Gordon did have a good year last year on less attempts than THJ usually puts up.

[Scott41theMavs]

There's some discussion on Bleacher Report - perhaps a rumor, perhaps a speculation - of a possible trade of Reggie Bullock, THJ, and a future first for Andrew Wiggins. Further noted that Cuban mentioned in an interview today that it was Wiggins and his play and presence that won the WCFs for Golden State.

I would probably do that deal. But it's frustrating that, a year ago, we might have been able to get Wiggins for KP straight up.

[mvossman]

There's some discussion on Bleacher Report - perhaps a rumor, perhaps a speculation - of a possible trade of Reggie Bullock, THJ, and a future first for Andrew Wiggins. Further noted that Cuban mentioned in an interview today that it was Wiggins and his play and presence that won the WCFs for Golden State.

I would probably do that deal. But it's frustrating that, a year ago, we might have been able to get Wiggins for KP straight up.

I don't pull that trigger.  We are sending out 2 of our top 7 for 1, leaving us super thin even before injuries.  Giving up a first will hamstring us for years from making a big pick trade, which might be our only legit way to get a true number 2.  Wiggins is the best player in that trade, but he is not a true number 2 and that contract is huge.  I think we would be giving up too much.

[Scott41theMavs]

I don't pull that trigger.  We are sending out 2 of our top 7 for 1, leaving us super thin even before injuries.  Giving up a first will hamstring us for years from making a big pick trade, which might be our only legit way to get a true number 2.  Wiggins is the best player in that trade, but he is not a true number 2 and that contract is huge.  I think we would be giving up too much.

Wiggins is by far the best creator of those three players. He has enough dog in him to replace RB. It leaves the Mavs short a wing, but perhaps is enough to address the 3-playmaker issue. To me, the only issue is that you have to extend Wiggins after that, and hope he continues to build on what he's done. I think he levelled up to star level - low end of top 50 players - this year. I'm not sure we're going to have a better shot at a second star for the next year or so. 

Once again, I'm the rare guy here who's always going to look at getting rid of THJ (and doing it quickly) as addition by subtraction, due to his not fitting into Kidd's defensive schemes.

[mvossman]

Wiggins is by far the best creator of those three players. He has enough dog in him to replace RB. It leaves the Mavs short a wing, but perhaps is enough to address the 3-playmaker issue. To me, the only issue is that you have to extend Wiggins after that, and hope he continues to build on what he's done. I think he levelled up to star level - low end of top 50 players - this year. I'm not sure we're going to have a better shot at a second star for the next year or so. 

Once again, I'm the rare guy here who's always going to look at getting rid of THJ (and doing it quickly) as addition by subtraction, due to his not fitting into Kidd's defensive schemes.

I'm not that high (top 50) on Wiggins.  He can create, but he is not particularly efficient at it.  He can be a little frustrating.

I think calling Timmy addition by subtraction is really harsh.  I'm actually curious to see what he can do with a full offseason under Kidd.

[Kammrath]

Reggie Bullock, THJ, and a future first for Andrew Wiggins

Wiggins was dominant in impact against the Mavs and in the playoffs in general. I don't like giving up a 1st, but this trade isn't crazy, especially if you think Wiggins has more upside to untap.

And Wiggins is the ideal body type and player you want to put around Luka. No argument there.

[sterlingmallory]

I think Wiggins really benefitted from playing in the Warriors system next to Curry. I would be very nervous about giving up picks for him just to see him regress to Minnesota Wiggins. Granted, Luka does similar things for players, but still, I don't think I'd give up a first for him.

[ItsGoTime]

The first needs to be the 28. That way next offseason we have the 24, 26 and 30 for trade. If you give up the 27, you only have the 25 and 29 to give. I would love getting SGA next offseason, I think he’s due to be disgruntled from all the tanking. Getting Wiggins this offseason and SGA next makes this team young and strong!

[Kammrath]

https://twitter.com/TheNBACentral/status...3089175552

[SleepingHero]

There's some discussion on Bleacher Report - perhaps a rumor, perhaps a speculation - of a possible trade of Reggie Bullock, THJ, and a future first for Andrew Wiggins. Further noted that Cuban mentioned in an interview today that it was Wiggins and his play and presence that won the WCFs for Golden State.

I would probably do that deal. But it's frustrating that, a year ago, we might have been able to get Wiggins for KP straight up.

That's really expensive for Andrew Wiggins. I think Kerr's system is making him seem A LOT better than he actually is.

However, I'm still interested. Wiggins is a good wing, even if he's being buffed in the Warriors system playing next to that perfect trio. Bullock is so integral to what we do though, I wouldn't include him in the deal. In fact I'm actually more open to the idea of including Maxi instead of Bullock (although I'm still not in love with it). 

Ideal: THJ+Powell+Whatever draft compensation

If they force my hand: THJ+Maxi+2nd.

Luka/SD/DFS/Wiggins/Wood is a pretty versatile lineup.

[omahen]

That's really expensive for Andrew Wiggins. I think Kerr's system is making him seem A LOT better than he actually is.

However, I'm still interested. Wiggins is a good wing, even if he's being buffed in the Warriors system playing next to that perfect trio. Bullock is so integral to what we do though, I wouldn't include him in the deal. In fact I'm actually more open to the idea of including Maxi instead of Bullock (although I'm still not in love with it). 

Ideal: THJ+Powell+Whatever draft compensation

If they force my hand: THJ+Maxi+2nd.

Luka/SD/DFS/Wiggins/Wood is a pretty versatile lineup.

I think GSW is forced to reduced salaries, because other teams don't like their spending. They have 160 mil committed next season for 9 players assuming Green takes his option. Wiggins and Poole are up for new contracts. 

The question of course is, how much is the market prepared to pay for expiring and likely overpaid wing. Wiggins is sort of as Tobias. Good but not max level good, who will probably demand near max money. So how much is anyone prepared to pay for that? Clippers received Shamet on rookie contract and 2 FRP for Harris, without any long term salary going their way. So I think one FRP is minimum to compensate GSW. 

I don't really get the THJ+Bullock thing. Bullock would certainly solve issues for GSW as he is a cheaper version of Wiggins that brings some of what he can do to the table. THJ though doesn't make a lot of sense to me. He could be seen as Poole replacement, but on an expensive side. They would save on what Wiggins and Poole would cost combined, but I don't think they would save enough, as their salaries would still be likely over 190 mil. They also have DiVincenzo and Moody to take Poole minutes already. I think they could have bigger use for a back up PG than THJ. So I am affraid they would be more interested in expiring salary than THJ.

This is how GSW would look without THJ

Curry, ?
Thompson, DiVinzenzo
Bullock, Moody
Green, Kuminga, Green
Looney, Wiseman

[Kammrath]

Wiggins is sort of as Tobias

I get what you are saying, BUT Wiggins is way better than Tobias because of his defensive ability.

[mvossman]

I get what you are saying, BUT Wiggins is way better than Tobias because of his defensive ability.

Wiggins is better defensively, but Tobias is better offensively.  He is more efficient and a better playmaker.  Wiggins is younger and a better fit, so I would go with him, but I wouldn't say way better.  They are both top 80 guys that are getting paid like top 30 guys.

[KillerLeft]

It's tough to rate Wiggins right now, especially as a Mavs fan. The Dallas series was a really good one for him. I'm not sure he's actually that good on a consistent basis though. I'm not sure he's not headed that way, to be clear, I just think we saw the very best he can offer during that series, which makes evaluating him a tricky prospect.

[Chicagojk]

It's tough to rate Wiggins right now, especially as a Mavs fan. The Dallas series was a really good one for him. I'm not sure he's actually that good on a consistent basis though. I'm not sure he's not headed that way, to be clear, I just think we saw the very best he can offer during that series, which makes evaluating him a tricky prospect.

I agree it is tough to rate Wiggins.  IMO Golden State & Miami (And San Antonio of old) are teams that are tough to properly value their own players.   For non stars, they tend to squeeze the best out of their complimentary players.    Therefore, I am always weary of trading for their players.

This my not be fair, but I really hope Christian Wood can have similar growth pattern as Wiggins.   Wiggins was the much higher rated player entering the league, but I think there are some similarities.  Hopefully Wood responds by playing for a coach who provides freedom but also requires buy in doing winning things on the floor.   That would be ideal if we can capture the things Wood is really good at while also getting buy in to the things he may not have prioritized in the past.  All while playing for a winning team.

[mvossman]

I agree it is tough to rate Wiggins.  IMO Golden State & Miami (And San Antonio of old) are teams that are tough to properly value their own players.   For non stars, they tend to squeeze the best out of their complimentary players.    Therefore, I am always weary of trading for their players.

This my not be fair, but I really hope Christian Wood can have similar growth pattern as Wiggins.   Wiggins was the much higher rated player entering the league, but I think there are some similarities.  Hopefully Wood responds by playing for a coach who provides freedom but also requires buy in doing winning things on the floor.   That would be ideal if we can capture the things Wood is really good at while also getting buy in to the things he may not have prioritized in the past.  All while playing for a winning team.

I think Wood is better right now than Wiggins was before he went to GS.  I don't see Wood making as big a transformation defensively, but if he buys in and becomes an average defender it would be huge.

[Kammrath]

It's tough to rate Wiggins right now, especially as a Mavs fan. The Dallas series was a really good one for him. I'm not sure he's actually that good on a consistent basis though. I'm not sure he's not headed that way, to be clear, I just think we saw the very best he can offer during that series, which makes evaluating him a tricky prospect.

But his play in the playoffs is why I think he is in a whole tier above someone like Tobias. He showed something that I don't think Tobias has ever shown. The problem is that sometimes that is an anomaly and won't be repeatable, other times it is a window into a person's true ceiling and future.