Thread Rating:
  • 6 Vote(s) - 3.83 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
TDL Archived: The 2nd Rnd Pick Yankee Swap
(06-25-2022, 12:05 AM)Kammrath Wrote: Cuban sucks. I don't like him. But he is not to blame for everything that doesn't go the Mavs way.

Main difference is that pre 2011 he would compensate for the Mavs mistake and just pay extra. In recent years he hasn´t been willing to do the same. With the most recent example coming yesterday when the Warriors and Lakers used cash. Mavs prefered to throw in an extra 2nd.

Already posted this a couple of days ago. Mavs made up for the 100m that he lost in the 00s. In recent years he cashed in on the franchise.

[url=Statistic: Dallas Mavericks operating income from 2001/02 to 2020/21 (in million U.S. dollars) | Statista
Find more statistics at  Statista[/url]
[-] The following 1 user Likes dirkfansince1998's post:
  • KillerLeft
Like Reply
(06-24-2022, 11:24 PM)Kammrath Wrote: If JB walks it is 100% going to be because HE CHOSE to walk. Nico has made it abundantly clear he is wanted in DAL and I see no sign of the Mavs trying to low ball him (like they did Nash).


Here's the thing: If what you assume above is what happens, it will still suck, but much less so. 

My assumption is that if he walks, it will be because Cuban lowballs him. And, we'll find out what was offered when all is said and done. 

What makes me feel a sort of way about this conversation is all the years you spent saying Tyson Chandler CHOSE to leave the title team. He did not. Cuban only offered a 1-year deal. If we keep the above criteria you've laid out consistent, then you've got a good point here.
[-] The following 1 user Likes KillerLeft's post:
  • Branduil
Like Reply
(06-24-2022, 11:01 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: Brunson might be an All Star next season. On either team.


I was with you until this. 

I get it. We're trying to cope with the potential (albeit infinitesimally small chance imo) reality where Brunson jumps shit to a shitter franchise. But we don't need to prop up the guy and make him out better than he is.

Is Brunson an integral part of this team? Absolutely. Is he a fantastic bucket getter and solid role player? Of course. But is he a top 5 guard in the West? (which is what we're saying here if he's an all-star) I don't think he's even remotely in that universe. Even if he improves to a 20ppg guy. No shot does he get in over Steph/Luka/Booker/Paul/Dame*/Mitchell/Morant. And that's not even taking into account of guys that are already ahead of Brunson in Edwards and maybe even Poole.

Ok back to the potential doom and gloom.

(06-24-2022, 11:16 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: I was sold during the stretch of the regular season that Luka missed. The ball was moving, the offense clicked and Brunson was awesome.


Mavs were 4-9 in that stretch in November/December with Brunson at the helm. 

But yes I agree Brunson stepped up when it mattered most in the playoffs.
14x All-Star, 12x all-NBA, 1x MVP, 1x Finals MVP, 1 NBA Championship: Dirk Nowitzki, the man, the myth, the legend.
[-] The following 2 users Like SleepingHero's post:
  • BasketballJones41, DanSchwartzgan
Like Reply
(06-25-2022, 12:43 AM)SleepingHero Wrote: But we don't need to prop up the guy and make him out better than he is.


I actually believe he might make an all star team in the near future. I'm ok with the idea that you might disagree, and I certainly could be wrong, but I think he's a hell of a shot creator from the mid-range off of the pick and roll, and I happen to think that's the number one most marketable skill in the NBA right now. 

You know me - I'm not going to be in doom and gloom mode forever, even if this happens, and I'm not going to change my narrative to fit some predetermined mood. 

But I'm telling you now, this one is going to hurt me.
Like Reply
(06-25-2022, 12:46 AM)KillerLeft Wrote: I actually believe he might make an all star team in the near future. I'm ok with the idea that you might disagree, and I certainly could be wrong, but I think he's a hell of a shot creator from the mid-range off of the pick and roll, and I happen to think that's the number one most marketable skill in the NBA right now. 

You know me - I'm not going to be in doom and gloom mode forever, even if this happens, and I'm not going to change my narrative to fit some predetermined mood. 

But I'm telling you now, this one is going to hurt me.


Understandable. I just don't see all-star level player in the near future, or ever... And it's not like he needs to be one here anyways. The Knicks HAVE to have that level of talent though, especially if they're going to try and throw absurd star-level money at him. And when Brunson inevitably doesn't perform to those expectations, NYK is going to be rabid mad at him. We've seen that time and again in the past with former Knick saviors, and it's actually killed careers. 

Again, I'm like 98% there with you here. Brunson is a core piece. Losing him for nothing would be a giant kick in the balls. However I don't think he's irreplaceable. Do I have the pathway to replace him now? No. But I do recognize the Mavs were close to a 50 win team without his shot creation in the starting lineup and him coming off the bench in the last 2 years here. They were 1 guy away from taking the Clippers out in those playoffs where Brunson was a no show. This team is a LOT better since then, and we actually have a solid 2nd creator in Dinwiddie to at least soothe that wound should Brunson leave. 

At the end of the day, with or without Brunson, this team will go far because it has Luka Doncic on it and that's all that matters.
14x All-Star, 12x all-NBA, 1x MVP, 1x Finals MVP, 1 NBA Championship: Dirk Nowitzki, the man, the myth, the legend.
[-] The following 1 user Likes SleepingHero's post:
  • DallasMaverick
Like Reply
(06-25-2022, 12:53 AM)SleepingHero Wrote: At the end of the day, with or without Brunson, this team will go far because it has Luka Doncic on it and that's all that matters.


I'm with you on the above, but believe you are vastly underselling what Brunson has done for this team during the last two seasons (this one even an improvement over the previous one). I mean, think of all the posts from @"Kammrath" pointing out that it was actually Brunson who was responsible for much of the success during the first third of the season when Luka wasn't actually playing efficiently. 

We spend so much time here moaning about how Luka needs more help. Well, here's a guy the organization drafted and developed who loves Luka and has an important role here. He has been so successful that multiple teams considered making him their primary target in FA. If he walks, the team will have neither the cap room nor the trade assets to acquire a replacement for him, so they'd actually be forced to try do more with less talent, rather than getting closer to the larger pile of talent much of this board thinks they need. 

I'm sorry, but that's not great. We can spin it all we want, but this is the kind of deal that needs to get done if the Mavs are going to be a great team anytime soon. We've been waiting for a reason to believe in Cuban/Harrison/Finley for a while now. I really liked what they did this year, and I believe it was directly responsible, along with Kidd's fine job, for what we saw and what most of us enjoyed on the court. But if they blow this...

SCORCHED EARTH
[-] The following 2 users Like KillerLeft's post:
  • omahen, Smitty
Like Reply
Mark has to save money for Dwight’s extension guys. I’m personally hoping for Dwight to become the longest tenured Mav of all time. Pitching some extra minutes at point guard will help us seal the deal with our community hero!
"The Dallas Mavericks must do everything they can to get Olivier-Maxence Prosper."
- IamDougieFresh (05-20-2023, 04:39 AM)
[-] The following 1 user Likes IamDougieFresh's post:
  • KillerLeft
Like Reply
(06-25-2022, 01:18 AM)IamDougieFresh Wrote: Mark has to save money for Dwight’s extension guys. I’m personally hoping for Dwight to become the longest tenured Mav of all time. Pitching some extra minutes at point guard will help us seal the deal with our community hero!

I needed this, thank you!

[Image: giphy.gif]
[-] The following 1 user Likes KillerLeft's post:
  • IamDougieFresh
Like Reply
(06-25-2022, 01:18 AM)IamDougieFresh Wrote: Mark has to save money for Dwight’s extension guys. I’m personally hoping for Dwight to become the longest tenured Mav of all time. Pitching some extra minutes at point guard will help us seal the deal with our community hero!


You have one bit and it constantly makes me laugh. 

I shudder to think what would happen should Dwight ever leave the team... Who will you hate on next??
14x All-Star, 12x all-NBA, 1x MVP, 1x Finals MVP, 1 NBA Championship: Dirk Nowitzki, the man, the myth, the legend.
[-] The following 1 user Likes SleepingHero's post:
  • KillerLeft
Like Reply
(06-25-2022, 01:36 AM)SleepingHero Wrote: You have one bit and it constantly makes me laugh. 

I shudder to think what would happen should Dwight ever leave the team... Who will you hate on next??
I think he will follow Dwight to keep hating on him on his new team.  Big Grin
[-] The following 1 user Likes ItsGoTime's post:
  • KillerLeft
Like Reply
While Kam and Dan have been posting advanced stats about how a borderline G League player should be in the starting lineup I have been campaigning to not pay 11 mil a year to a guy whose only skill is scoring wide open dunks. I’m just built different.

I was proved right in the playoffs AGAIN, but the cycle will continue unless Nico does something. I must speak against this for the good of the team we all love.

I’m the hero Dallas deserves, but not the one it needs right now. So they will hunt me, but don’t worry I can take it. Because I’m not your hero. I’m a not so silent guardian. A watchful protector. A Dirk Knight.

[Image: giphy.gif]
"The Dallas Mavericks must do everything they can to get Olivier-Maxence Prosper."
- IamDougieFresh (05-20-2023, 04:39 AM)
[-] The following 8 users Like IamDougieFresh's post:
  • BasketballJones41, dirkfansince1998, Jmaciscool, KillerLeft, Mavs2021, MaxiThreeba, SleepingHero, Smitty
Like Reply
Cuban can afford to overpay to keep Powell. Boban. Pinson. Various meh scraps. Now when it gets to a key player like JB is not where he should draw a line on "financial discipline."  (But it does sound like something he would do.)
Like Reply
This should not be that hard...
Start JB at $1 Million more than NY has in space and use the Bird Right raises. Over 4 years that would represent roughly 8 million + state income tax.

NY has $25 to start; Dallas counters with $26
NY can offer 4 years $112 million
Dallas can offer 4 years $119.6 million, with a player option in year 5 for $36.4 million
[-] The following 1 user Likes SkenfromLMF's post:
  • Smitty
Like Reply
(06-25-2022, 02:33 AM)SkenfromLMF Wrote: This should not be that hard...
Start JB at $1 Million more than NY has in space and use the Bird Right raises. Over 4 years that would represent roughly 8 million + state income tax.

NY has $25 to start; Dallas counters with $26
NY can offer 4 years $112 million
Dallas can offer 4 years $119.6 million, with a player option in year 5 for $36.4 million

Email this to Cuban.
Like Reply
(06-25-2022, 12:46 AM)KillerLeft Wrote: I actually believe he might make an all star team in the near future. I'm ok with the idea that you might disagree, and I certainly could be wrong, but I think he's a hell of a shot creator from the mid-range off of the pick and roll, and I happen to think that's the number one most marketable skill in the NBA right now. 

You know me - I'm not going to be in doom and gloom mode forever, even if this happens, and I'm not going to change my narrative to fit some predetermined mood. 

But I'm telling you now, this one is going to hurt me.

For me one of the biggest issues I have with Brunson offensively, that makes him very predictable is that he has no pull up 3 (so basically as soon as he puts the ball on the floor the defender knows to straight up guard the drive). He shot like 31% on only like 1 attempt per game. I don't like how his shot creation is all mid range or in the paint. He's only good at shooting 3's that are created for him. He really, really needs to add a pull up 3 to his arsenal. It would also make him much more difficult to guard on drives. Without that shot I don't think he's touching any all star appearances, or touching 20ppg either.
Like Reply
(06-25-2022, 02:33 AM)SkenfromLMF Wrote: This should not be that hard...
Start JB at $1 Million more than NY has in space and use the Bird Right raises. Over 4 years that would represent roughly 8 million + state income tax.

NY has $25 to start; Dallas counters with $26
NY can offer 4 years $112 million
Dallas can offer 4 years $119.6 million, with a player option in year 5 for $36.4 million
I would say make it even. Make the Dallas offer less but factor in the tax to where we pay less against the cap but Brunson takes home the exact same amount either way. This way if Brunson leaves it really wasn’t about the money. 

Either he’s a winner or a money grabber. He has no option outside of Dallas where he will ever get remotely close to winning. This decision will show us what he’s made of
Like Reply
(06-25-2022, 12:28 AM)KillerLeft Wrote: Here's the thing: If what you assume above is what happens, it will still suck, but much less so. 

My assumption is that if he walks, it will be because Cuban lowballs him. And, we'll find out what was offered when all is said and done. 

What makes me feel a sort of way about this conversation is all the years you spent saying Tyson Chandler CHOSE to leave the title team. He did not. Cuban only offered a 1-year deal. If we keep the above criteria you've laid out consistent, then you've got a good point here.


Cuban has low-balled players in the past....Nash and Ty as prime examples. And they left for more money. If Cuban does the same to JB, then he does deserve a lot of blame. I don't see the tea leaves pointing to that happening this time. 

My point: If the Mavs offer as much or MORE money then you cannot put all the blame on Cuban for JB leaving. It simply means JB wanted a role he cannot get alongside Luka.
[-] The following 2 users Like Kammrath's post:
  • F Gump, KillerLeft
Like Reply
(06-25-2022, 01:02 AM)KillerLeft Wrote: I mean, think of all the posts from @Kammrath pointing out that it was actually Brunson who was responsible for much of the success during the first third of the season when Luka wasn't actually playing efficiently.


[Image: 863d31ee-62d0-4029-8f52-d960f98272a8_text.gif]
Like Reply
(06-25-2022, 07:52 AM)Kammrath Wrote: My point: If the Mavs offer as much or MORE money then you cannot put all the blame on Cuban for JB leaving. It simply means JB wanted a role he cannot get alongside Luka.

Of course. I think that’s where most people stand. BUT if Cuban offers less (or unwilling to match), even his greatest advocates better join the crusade with pitchforks in hand.
[-] The following 1 user Likes Smitty's post:
  • Branduil
Like Reply
(06-25-2022, 05:14 AM)Dundalis Wrote: For me one of the biggest issues I have with Brunson offensively, that makes him very predictable is that he has no pull up 3 (so basically as soon as he puts the ball on the floor the defender knows to straight up guard the drive). He shot like 31% on only like 1 attempt per game. I don't like how his shot creation is all mid range or in the paint. He's only good at shooting 3's that are created for him. He really, really needs to add a pull up 3 to his arsenal. It would also make him much more difficult to guard on drives. Without that shot I don't think he's touching any all star appearances, or touching 20ppg either.

A pull up three would no doubt help, but lower hanging fruit would be for him to pull the trigger more consistently on open 3s.  He was nearly 20 points a game in the second half of the season and over it during the playoffs.  Its not hard to see him hit 20 ppg next season.
Like Reply


Forum Jump:


Users browsing this thread: 7 Guest(s)