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TRADE: Dinwiddie + Bertans to DAL | KP + 2nd to WAS
(02-10-2022, 04:07 PM)Kammrath Wrote: Yep. As @"dirkfansince1998" said, this is all setting up this summer while not screwing with what the Mavs have going right now.

KP was literally a non-factor at this point and so all the momentum the Mavs have right now is preserved. AND they have a chance to integrate two guys who HAVE been effective in the last couple years. Then make decisions this summer.

If he’s a non-factor then just let him sit and remain a non-factor until he comes off of the books or is an enormous expiring.  Instead they traded for two other non-factors that have longer contracts and reduce flexibility in the future…. They are just doubling down in their problem by trying to run away from it
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(02-10-2022, 04:10 PM)cow Wrote: Hopefully this is a rebuild?  But if that's the case, we should have moved Jalen and tried to reclaim our '23.  I guess we could still do that this summer.


It's not a rebuild. They just couldn't move forward (from here) with an "empty calorie" (your term) MAX contract sitting there like a turd in the punch bowl. 

Who knows if they've improved that positioning by separating the money, but I'd bet my life that they THINK they have.
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(02-10-2022, 04:04 PM)fifteenth Wrote: The level of outrage on the board and the immediate bad grades from a couple of outlets give me hope! :-)

I think @"Fuerza1" and @"Kammrath" have the goods on this.

Removing Mr. "I'm not a center, and I need my touches in my spots to be comfortable" is going to be addition by subtraction, I believe. The two new bad contracts could be useful in future trades, actually, especially if Kidd and Luka get these two playing well. Let's see what a new situation and a new role do for these guy.

And regarding a bit of roster imbalance: Sometimes it takes more than one move to get the roster where you want it. Moving the immovable contract was a good first step, imo.


You can’t hate KP so much that you overlook a terrible return or overlook how the other team was desperate to get rid of these players. 

 If you are going to justify it by saying we got a better fit that’s fine. But at this point we gave up the more talented and younger player. Get a FRP or don’t budge. That’s all most are saying. Instead we not only did not get a pick but threw in a 2nd round pick too. You can sell me somewhat on the players. You can’t sell me at all on the asset mgmt part.  That is where I have the biggest problem.
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This isn't the deal I expected for KP, and I get why people hate it. But set aside the initial reaction, and I think there's something to learn here about the type of team Dallas wants to build.

Looking at the roster, there are some clear archetypes developing:

Luka/Brunson -- offensive initiators
THJ/Dinwiddie -- bigger gunners
DFS/Bullock -- 3&D wings
Maxi/Bertans -- floor-spacing 4s
Powell/Chriss -- rim-rolling centers

I agree with the observations that Dallas is moving on from the "run plays for your frontcourt guy on the block" offense and committing to ball movement. Now how it works on defense is TBD, but it'll be interesting to see how the overall team adjusts to the new paradigm.
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(02-10-2022, 04:09 PM)burekemde Wrote: 19 ppg and 8 rebounds and amazing rim protection and blocking is a non-factor? What is the status on Dinwiddie and Bertans can they play this season or they are both injured now?

Point is that the Mavs once again have a better record without KP. 9-3 since Christmas. 13-8 for the season. He missed more than 20 games and one could argue that the Mavs played the best basketball of the season without him.
Same trend that we saw in the last two seasons. 16-13 without KP in 20/21. 11-7 in 19/20. Overall we have nearly a full season worth of games and a 40-28 record. That´s a big sample size. KP playing/not playing did not change the outcome.
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(02-10-2022, 04:13 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: It's not a rebuild. They just couldn't move forward (from here) with an "empty calorie" (your term) MAX contract sitting there like a turd in the punch bowl. 

Who knows if they've improved that positioning by separating the money, but I'd bet my life that they THINK they have.

Read my edit.  

I'm sure they think they have too.  I just hope DFS signs elsewhere so I can stop watching this mess.
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(02-10-2022, 04:10 PM)cow Wrote: It's all kind of a moot point anyway, we aren't a championship team.


Come on now. I don't think you really believe this. Gotta climb the ladder to win a championship. That's the way of the NBA. We gotta get to and play well in the second round this year, I think.
Not very astute ^^^^
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How is Dinwiddies defense?
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(02-10-2022, 04:11 PM)soog Wrote: If he’s a non-factor then just let him sit and remain a non-factor until he comes off of the books or is an enormous expiring.  Instead they traded for two other non-factors that have longer contracts and reduce flexibility in the future…. They are just doubling down in their problem by trying to run away from it


Devil's Advocate (your way might have been better). 

I think this signals that they are (and more importantly, want to be) DONE with the cap room approach for a while. Otherwise, I think they do exactly what you said: let him expire and probably line up some other expiring deals to coincide. 

I think they believe they can transition these players into other players much more easily than they could've done with Porzingis.
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(02-10-2022, 03:57 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: I think the thing we're missing is that the Mavs REALLY WANTED TO BE RID OF PORZINGIS. Start from that point, and then assume this was the best package they could get, and it starts to make sense.
Isn't that obvious? And that's probably also exactly what limited the return.

I'm wondering whether their decision to move on from KP was mostly because of some health related intel. Because if would be more basketball related I wouldn't get it.
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(02-10-2022, 04:08 PM)Tyler Wrote: I sortof got the impression that he came in trying to be a leader and guys like Beal just rolled their eyes at him. It doesn't make him a bad lockerroom guy. Sometimes it's about fit. And lets be honest -- the Wizards have been a mess for a while.

Other teams probably say the same thing about the Mavs  Smile

First it was Dirk.  Now Luka.  Only thing that keeps the Mavs from being talked about like the Kings or Wizards or any other of the worst run teams in the league.
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(02-10-2022, 04:11 PM)soog Wrote: If he’s a non-factor then just let him sit and remain a non-factor until he comes off of the books or is an enormous expiring.  Instead they traded for two other non-factors that have longer contracts and reduce flexibility in the future…. They are just doubling down in their problem by trying to run away from it

I take any signature bet (if this board still has ignatures?) that they will trade their 2022 1st round pick + Dinwiddie (or THJ) for a slightly less shittier contract that expires in 2023, maybe Gallinari.

Then they´ll do the same on draft night in 2023 (assuming the Knicks pick has converted) with their 2024 pick and Bertans.

When it´s all said and done they will have paid five first round picks (DSJ, 2020, 2022, 2023, 2024) for 144 games of Porzingis.
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(02-10-2022, 04:14 PM)Tyler Wrote: This isn't the deal I expected for KP, and I get why people hate it. But set aside the initial reaction, and I think there's something to learn here about the type of team Dallas wants to build.

Looking at the roster, there's definitely some clear archetypes developing:

Luka/Brunson -- offensive initiators
THJ/Dinwiddie -- bigger gunners
DFS/Bullock -- 3&D wings
Maxi/Bertans -- floor-spacing 4s
Powell/Chriss -- rim-rolling centers

I agree with the observations that Dallas is moving on from the "run plays for your frontcourt guy on the block" offense and committing to ball movement. Now how it works on defense is TBD, but it'll be interesting to see how the overall team adjusts to the new paradigm.

This is a nice breakdown. Dinwiddie in particular seems as a player that can move the ball and might be a great fit in the team, and run the second unit when Luka and Brunson take a rest. Only thing I have on him is watching highlights on youtube now. But the above strategy can really backfire if you meet a team in playoffs that dominate inside offensively that will destroy Powell. We would need KP or someone like that to counter that.
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(02-10-2022, 04:14 PM)Tyler Wrote: This isn't the deal I expected for KP, and I get why people hate it. But set aside the initial reaction, and I think there's something to learn here about the type of team Dallas wants to build.

Looking at the roster, there are some clear archetypes developing:

Luka/Brunson -- offensive initiators
THJ/Dinwiddie -- bigger gunners
DFS/Bullock -- 3&D wings
Maxi/Bertans -- floor-spacing 4s
Powell/Chriss -- rim-rolling centers

I agree with the observations that Dallas is moving on from the "run plays for your frontcourt guy on the block" offense and committing to ball movement. Now how it works on defense is TBD, but it'll be interesting to see how the overall team adjusts to the new paradigm.

There is a lot of truth here. 

You can say "switchable" about everyone on that list with a straight face. Bertans probably isn't going to be great after switching, but it's not because he's too big/lumbering/slow.
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(02-10-2022, 04:07 PM)Kammrath Wrote: Yep. As @"dirkfansince1998" said, this is all setting up this summer while not screwing with what the Mavs have going right now.

KP was literally a non-factor at this point and so all the momentum the Mavs have right now is preserved. AND they have a chance to integrate two guys who HAVE been effective in the last couple years. Then make decisions this summer.

I agree with all this but to me we won't know how to feel about this until the bolded.

If we keep DFS and Brunson and go into the tax while we continue to retool, then I'm happy we made this trade because KP cared too much about his offense and not enough about the Mavs offense and we look way smoother without him.

I get the arguments about losing rim protection but I wasn't super stoked about having KP on the floor for 4th quarters in the playoffs because other teams would be hunting him anyway and dragging him out to the three point line.  Bertans and Dimwiddie can easily get targeted as well but they won't be on the floor to close playoff games I would think.

This team was never going to be in a position to make a huge improvement until our 2023 pick was conveyed anyway so if we're able to retain the role players that this board seems to value and this makes it easier to retool the rest of the roster when that moment comes then this will all look way better in hindsight.
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I just can't get behind this.   I think I would be ok if it was Bertans, Harrell and Bryant.  Bertans will be here for a few years, make some shots.  Wizzards gave Harrell away and Bryant is an upcoming free agent.   Get Goran as a buyout.  That would have been much better.   

It just smells like Cuban was again driving player acquisition with Dinwiddie and that is always not a good thing.
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(02-10-2022, 04:15 PM)fifteenth Wrote: Come on now. I don't think you really believe this. Gotta climb the ladder to win a championship. That's the way of the NBA. We gotta get to and play well in the second round this year, I think.

West is weak this year so you might get a second round.  We are nowhere near the likes of the Suns, Chicago, 76ers, Memphis, Chicago, etc.

Our best option this summer is to lock in Jalen and then you've got a tandem on par with Dame/CJ.  How'd that work out?  You've then got a year left of Powell and multiple years left of Dinwiddie and Bertans who are equally untradeable.  We might as well have attached a FRP to KP and looked for someone expiring much sooner.
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(02-10-2022, 03:57 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: I think it's a big assumption to think they'd have to be expiring to move them. 

I think maybe we're underestimating how much a worse a bad MAX deal is than just a normal bad contract. 

I don't WANT to defend this trade - I hate it. Just trying to accurately understand it. 

I think the thing we're missing is that the Mavs REALLY WANTED TO BE RID OF PORZINGIS. Start from that point, and then assume this was the best package they could get, and it starts to make sense. Both Dinwiddie and Bertans WILL play in the playoff rotation, so technically they moved up from 7 guys to 8.

This
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KP is out because we weren't getting much value from him for team win shares. He didn't play enough and was largely a media punching bag. It would be nice to get more for him, but until he could stay playing for any length of time, his value is what it is. 

Bertans and Dinwiddie at least look more than serviceable in the rotation.

If you wanted to keep KP, then you are betting he will be in the lineup consistently. I haven't had that thought in over a year.
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(02-10-2022, 04:19 PM)Chicagojk Wrote: I just can't get behind this.   I think I would be ok if it was Bertans, Harrell and Bryant.  Bertans will be here for a few years, make some shots.  Wizzards gave Harrell away and Bryant is an upcoming free agent.   Get Goran as a buyout.  That would have been much better.   

It just smells like Cuban was again driving player acquisition with Dinwiddie and that is always not a good thing.

Doesn't make sense to sign him now, unless they let go Burke or Brown.
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